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Germans bombing of Dublin in WWII

  • 02-06-2006 07:21AM
    #1
    Archeron
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,742 ✭✭✭


    Read an article in the Herald (I know, the herald, sorry) last night that some historian has suggested that the bombs dropped on Dublin in WWII were direct retaliation for our sending of fire trucks to help when Belfast was bombed, despite our neutrality. Apparantly Goebels was incensed that the Irish people helped Britain in the war, and when the Irish fire trucks helped in belfast, it was splashed all over the media in the UK. It indicated that the target was most likely a city centre fire station, but they missed blowing up Summerhill Parade and NCR. Its an interesting theory. Has anyone ever heard mention of this before? I've heard a couple of conspiracy theories before as to why those bombs were dropped, but this is a new one. Any thoughts?


«13

Comments

  • #2
    Bluetonic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,588 ✭✭✭Bluetonic


    In fairness http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=576

    Obviously was a slow news day.


  • #3
    p.pete
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,269 ✭✭✭p.pete


    Always seemed far-fetched to me that they could get as far as Dublin without realising they'd gone too far.


  • #4
    Hagar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,786 ✭✭✭✭Hagar


    The way I heard from my Da was that it was a bombing raid destined for Liverpool which went wrong. When you consider how primitive navigation was then by today's standards it's not hard to imagine that this could easily happen. Liverpool is only about 60 miles away as the crow, or Dornier, flies.

    Don't forget they also bombed the SCR on another occasion. This just happens to be the home of the Jewish community in Dublin. Now try that one out with your precision bombing conspiracy theories.;)


  • #5
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,350 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    Yep, ASFAIR they used Ireland as a navigation aid. They ran up the irish sea hugging our coast, then a right turn and a few mins later you were over britain. This avoided the UK radar and fighter patrols as well(which was the main reason). Many of the pilots were young and inexperienced but, not by that much. Certainly the Germans had very good pilot/navigators. Navigation was quite accurate too(contrary to popular..). It's pretty much the same as sea navigation only faster and we've been doing that accurately for quite a while. Night flying would be an issue though.

    The most likely explanation for that one at least was that they were running out of fuel and dumped the bombs to reduce weight. AFAIR there was a blackout on the nth strand(but not in most of Dublin) that night so they thought they were dropping their bombs into the sea. The SCR is probably a bigger screw up similar to that.

    Many worry about Artificial Intelligence. I worry far more about Organic Idiocy.



  • #6
    Archeron
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,742 ✭✭✭Archeron


    thanks Wibbs. Thats the same thing I had heard as well. I didnt intend this to be a conspiracy theory, just thought it was an interesting idea.

    Grace Jones and Wesley Snipes are the same person. now THATS a conspiracy theory.


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  • #7
    mikedragon32
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,939 ✭✭✭mikedragon32


    Well if you read it in the Herald, it must be true!

    I'd heard Wibbs' theory before, and also my Father (who remembers it), says that at the time it was generally believed the bombers were en-route to Belfast when the bombs were dropped.


  • #8
    Archeron
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,742 ✭✭✭Archeron


    mikedragon32 wrote:
    Well if you read it in the Herald, it must be true!
    QUOTE]

    LOL. Every time I quote something from the herald to a friend, I always say that first. :D


  • #9
    KTRIC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,346 ✭✭✭KTRIC


    My grandad was just home from the war and living in St.Annes (raheny). He told me that they dropped alot of bomb's on Dollymount beech. The locals had to clean them up for safty.

    He heard at the time that they did this because the pilots didn't want to bomb their targets and they couldn't return with the bombs as they would have been shot.


  • #10
    Draupnir
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,548 ✭✭✭Draupnir


    I've heard the fire trucks story before, I think its a very well known and plausible theory.

    My grandmother lived on Summerhill Parade at the time and her whole family was moved to Cabra when it happened.

    The bomb on Dollymount beach thing, sounds a bit...untrue


  • #11
    KTRIC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,346 ✭✭✭KTRIC


    Draupnir wrote:
    The bomb on Dollymount beach thing, sounds a bit...untrue


    So you calling my grandad a liar ??? :D

    I've seen the pics of the bombs being moved by the way.


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  • #12
    el tel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,991 ✭✭✭el tel


    K-TRIC wrote:
    My grandad was just home from the war and living in St.Annes (raheny). He told me that they dropped alot of bomb's on Dollymount beech. The locals had to clean them up for safty.

    He heard at the time that they did this because the pilots didn't want to bomb their targets and they couldn't return with the bombs as they would have been shot.

    The only reason why they'd be shot would be for being so dumb as to carry a load of 500lb bombs half way across Europe and back without getting rid of them. They had to get rid of them, aircraft performance and safety would have dictated they do this.


  • #13
    ionapaul
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,364 ✭✭✭ionapaul


    It certainly isn't so far-fetched to be described a conspiracy theory - where's the conspiracy? :) Another theory, equally or more plausible, is a reason the German's bombed Dublin was as a warning...'look what we can do if you stray too far from your neutrality'.


  • #14
    Degsy
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,397 ✭✭✭✭Degsy


    My granny who lived in clontarf at the time said they used to dump thier bombs in the sea on thier way back from england,presumably to save fuel..


  • #15
    DublinWriter
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,599 ✭✭✭DublinWriter


    The Luftwaffe also 'accidently' bombed a creamery in Wexford that was being used to supply the British.


  • #16
    Dyr
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    Yeah i've heard the creamery story too but i wonder if that was coincidence

    A book called Landfall Ireland was released a year or two ago about all this kind of thing


  • #17
    KTRIC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 9,346 ✭✭✭KTRIC


    ionapaul wrote:
    look what we can do if you stray too far from your neutrality'.


    Exactly, we got off lightly compaired to some other countries.


  • #18
    el tel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,991 ✭✭✭el tel


    Ireland's neutrality then, like now, is a joke.
    British POWs captured in Ireland who should have been detained
    for the remainder of the hostilities were eventually brought up to
    the border and released. In one celebrated instance, a British officer
    who escaped from his Irish 'captors' and made it to the North was sent
    back by his superiors to avoid damaging the little relationship with the Irish. So he came back only to be released again in due course...


  • #19
    Hagar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,786 ✭✭✭✭Hagar


    German internees, there were no POWs by the way, were also given latitude and many worked outside the camps. Their detention was quite relaxed and amounted to little more then turning up for roll-call or at least having a good excuse for not turning up for roll-call. So I'm told anyway. Freedom of movement wasn't all one sided by any means.


  • #20
    LikeOhMyGawd!
    Closed Accounts Posts: 192 ✭✭LikeOhMyGawd!


    Hagar wrote:
    German internees, there were no POWs by the way, were also given latitude and many worked outside the camps. Their detention was quite relaxed and amounted to little more then turning up for roll-call or at least having a good excuse for not turning up for roll-call. So I'm told anyway. Freedom of movement wasn't all one sided by any means.

    There is freedom of movement and there's actively returning detainees back to their armies to join the conflict again.


  • #21
    DamoKen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,269 ✭✭✭DamoKen


    ionapaul wrote:
    It certainly isn't so far-fetched to be described a conspiracy theory - where's the conspiracy? :) Another theory, equally or more plausible, is a reason the German's bombed Dublin was as a warning...'look what we can do if you stray too far from your neutrality'.

    seem to remember reading that somewhere myself, not the most subtle reminder but effective. On a side note, my gran has some photo's of her wedding which was a few days after the bombing (she lived on Clonliffe Road, most of the windows in the house were broken during it).
    She had to walk across some planks covering a crater to get into the church, before that however a procession of coffins of victims of the bombing were brought out of the church. A grim reminder of what would happen if we strayed too far


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  • #22
    frobisher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,413 ✭✭✭frobisher


    When I was very young I heard a version that always struck me as the most plausible. Apparently the pilots where to fly to South West Ireland and then follow the coast to Belfast and drop their bombs. They knew Dublin was a city half way along but they mistook Waterford for Dublin so when they got to Dublin they thought it was Belfast and dropped their bombs.


  • #23
    Esel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,693 ✭✭✭✭Esel
    Not Your Ornery Onager


    They did it as a favour to Vinston Churchill. In turn, he bombed a couple of 'neutral' countries near the Fatherland. de Walera knew vat vas goink on, but he kept schtum, because Frank Von Ryan vas at large. :rolleyes:

    Not your ornery onager



  • #24
    TempestSabre
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,142 ✭✭✭TempestSabre


    Considering Ryanair managed to land at the wrong airport...


  • #25
    Cosmo K
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 977 ✭✭✭Cosmo K


    The Luftwaffe...good naviagators ??? :eek: They even bombed the german city of Freiburg by mistake in 1940......

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freiburg


  • #26
    Badly Drunk Boy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 7,263 ✭✭✭Badly Drunk Boy


    I live near The Curragh. A lot of soldiers were interned there during the Second World War. The German soldiers worked on the bog, cutting and footing turf (energy resources). And a significant proportion were happy to stay in Ireland when the war was over.

    I know two lads from Kilcullen in Kildare, whose grandfathers were Germanic...


  • #27
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 36,733 CMod ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The Herald reports a 60 year old story about the Germans bombing the Irish? That sounds like something Fox News would report in the States just before the presidential election vote. Senator Kerry (candidate for 2004 president), who was awarded the Navy Cross and 3 Purple Hearts during the Viet Nam War (more than 30 years ago), is in fact a coward. The guy running for a second term as president, who got no medals for sitting safe in the States during the Viet Nam War, and who defended the State of Texas against hypothetical attacks by the State of Oklahoma, is a hero.

    If the Herald is going to dig up old history, they should report something really juicey from WWII, like when a US submarine mistakenly torpedoed the HMS Ark Royal (aircraft carrier), almost sinking it. But to give it a really good spin, they could ask why the Americans were attacking the British?

    Or better yet, I'll come over to Ireland, bring a bunch of Germans along, and we will all meet you guys in one of your pubs and really get bombed! Oh, don't forget to invite the Herald.


  • #28
    Badly Drunk Boy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 7,263 ✭✭✭Badly Drunk Boy


    An uncle of my father's was taken prisoner by the Japanese. The Americans blew up the ship he was on...

    He didn't get any sort of acknowledgement. And because he was an Irish citizen, he had no duty to be there...


  • #29
    ArphaRima
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,678 ✭✭✭ArphaRima


    The bombing of Dublin was a mistake by the British AND the germans. The germans used a navigation aid that involved european based navigation aids broadcasting a signal across the channel towards the target. The aircraft then followed that signal. (it involved beeping sound that told the pilot when to turn left or right etc) The british cracked the system and began to bend the signal towards other locations, which were normally open countryside or open sea. In our case, the signal was bent towards open sea. But the German pilots found Dublin, thought it was Liverpool and bombed us. It was as simple as that.


  • #30
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 36,733 CMod ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    So the British bombed Dublin using German planes? That's not "new(s)" is it?


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  • #31
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,587 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    There's a good book out there by a Canadian airman entitled 'Grounded in Eire' about his stay as a guest of the Irish Defense Forces. It is well researched, complete with pictures of the original documents held in the Cathal Brugha Defense Forces Library of the day-to-day running of the camp. Things like "There have been complaints about the internees cycling four abreast on the road to the races"

    There was also a movie of some questionable quality, entitled "The Bryll Cream Boys." Whilst the movie itself was a soppy romance thing, the portrayal of life as a detainee in the Curragh, and of the nature of the camp and its rules appear to be quite accurate. They even got the rank insignia right for the time.

    NTM


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