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Free Michael Shields

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,387 ✭✭✭✭super_furry


    PORNAPSTER wrote:
    It was a Liverpool fan that dropped the slab. Liverpool FC should be helping the Bulgarian police to find the offender rather than just assume that Shields was innocent.

    Why? Graham Sankey has already admitted to it. Why should Liverpool FC help find the offender when he has already admitted his guilt?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,545 ✭✭✭Green_Martian


    Stekelly wrote:
    Are Utd involved in every crime commited by a person who happened to pick utd as their team to support?

    I think the point he was trying to make is that the clubs, be it Man Utd , Liverpool or Chelsea are responsiable to some degree of their fans actions at football matches be it home or away. I don't think he was reffering to the clubs helping out in normal crimes away from football...........

    My opinion on the matter is there is no smoke without fire.................and as someone said earlier, that it is not unusual not to know who is next door to you in the hotel is total sh!t. unless you are a hermit crab........
    anytime i have been away that is probaly one of the first things you notice, and seen as they were all football fans they prob did know each other and prob had a drink or 2


  • Moderators, Regional North East Moderators Posts: 12,744 Mod ✭✭✭✭cournioni


    Dub13 wrote:
    Believe me I am well aware of most aspects of this case.Clubs are not responsible for the actions of there fans 100s of miles from games,if this was the case Rangers should be helping the PSNI convict that youth who killed a Celtic fan up the north a few weeks ago.
    In that case they shouldn't be getting involved in the matter at all. They should have had no "Free Michael" on the Kop, or Jamie Carragher dedicating a goal to him. If they are going to get involved in the case at all they should be trying to find the man involved.

    And just for the sake of it... If a United fan was involved in this attempted murder you can bet your ass that Manchester United would do their utmost to have their fan arrested. They done so when a fan threw a flare onto the pitch at St. Mary's, so I'm sure they would do it if it was a murder.


  • Moderators, Regional North East Moderators Posts: 12,744 Mod ✭✭✭✭cournioni


    Why? Graham Sankey has already admitted to it. Why should Liverpool FC help find the offender when he has already admitted his guilt?
    I thought he admitted to throwing a brick on the same night but not at Georgiev.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,545 ✭✭✭Green_Martian


    Yeah according to Sankey he did throw a brick that night but denied being in the area


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,387 ✭✭✭✭super_furry




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,545 ✭✭✭Green_Martian


    Well i stand corrected then...............

    Have to laugh at the 3 Tab on the Webpage..........................:D


  • Moderators, Regional North East Moderators Posts: 12,744 Mod ✭✭✭✭cournioni




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,985 ✭✭✭✭zAbbo


    so whats the deal.


  • Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,264 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dub13


    PORNAPSTER wrote:
    In that case they shouldn't be getting involved in the matter at all. They should have had no "Free Michael" on the Kop, or Jamie Carragher dedicating a goal to him. If they are going to get involved in the case at all they should be trying to find the man involved.


    The fans did that on the Kop not the club,IMO the club are in a no win situation.And how do you stop a player dedicating a goal to anything...?

    By you logic because the lad is a Liverpool fan and was celebration a great win by his team the club he is supporting is somehow involved in this mess,even if the incident happened 100s of miles away from the majority of the rest of the fans.So lets say Dublin win the all Ireland and there is a bit of a fight in Cork between some Dublin lad with a Dubs top on and a few locals.Are the Dublin county board now obliged to help the police down in Cork seems as the lad had a Dublin top on...?

    PORNAPSTER wrote:
    And just for the sake of it... If a United fan was involved in this attempted murder you can bet your ass that Manchester United would do their utmost to have their fan arrested. They done so when a fan threw a flare onto the pitch at St. Mary's, so I'm sure they would do it if it was a murder.

    Completely different matter as it happened in a football ground.LFC have a anti hooligan program but I am not going to bring that into this discussion as it is not one bit relevant.


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  • Posts: 22,384 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Well then, I'm afraid you were both misinformed

    An article in a Liverpool website, sure that clears everything up! Why bother with a legal system, evidence, judges etc. when some Liverpool website can give you all the facts and answers.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,387 ✭✭✭✭super_furry


    An article in a Liverpool website, sure that clears everything up! Why bother with a legal system, evidence, judges etc. when some Liverpool website can give you all the facts and answers.

    No, I assume you didn't bother your arse to read it, so I'll enlighten you. It's a signed confesion by Sankey.


  • Posts: 22,384 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    No, I assume you didn't bother your arse to read it, so I'll enlighten you. It's a signed confesion by Sankey.

    I read it. It's not a signed confession at all. It's a story on a website purporting to show a signed confession. Do you (snigger) honestly (cough, laugh) think that (guffaw) stands up as evidence in any legal system in the world? Jesus wept.

    Please go read up on the law of hearsay evidence and come back and tell us the legal system in the world that would remotely deem that admissable. And don't believe everything you see and read online.


  • Moderators, Regional North East Moderators Posts: 12,744 Mod ✭✭✭✭cournioni


    Dub13 wrote:
    The fans did that on the Kop not the club,IMO the club are in a no win situation.And how do you stop a player dedicating a goal to anything...?

    By you logic because the lad is a Liverpool fan and was celebration a great win by his team the club he is supporting is somehow involved in this mess,even if the incident happened 100s of miles away from the majority of the rest of the fans.So lets say Dublin win the all Ireland and there is a bit of a fight in Cork between some Dublin lad with a Dubs top on and a few locals.Are the Dublin county board now obliged to help the police down in Cork seems as the lad had a Dublin top on...?
    The fans held up the cards, but how were the cards there in the first place? Liverpool FC obviously allowed them at the very least to put the cards on each seat on the Kop. Don't say that Liverpool FC had nothing to do with it. Once they allowed those cards onto those seats they got themselves involved with the situation. Supporters can bring banners of their own if they want but they would need permission from Liverpool before putting on such a display.

    As for players celebrations, you can't stop anyone from dedicating a goal to anything. But still, what if Michael Shields was the man that dropped the stone onto Martin Georgiev's head?! Carragher should have a bit of cop on.

    As for your second paragraph, no they are not obliged to do anything. But they shouldn't be getting involved with "freeing" anybody. What I said was they should make finding the offender the priority, rather than looking to have someone who could have been involved in the assault freed.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,230 ✭✭✭scojones


    I saw a documentary about this about a month ago. It's a very sad situation :(


  • Moderators, Regional North East Moderators Posts: 12,744 Mod ✭✭✭✭cournioni


    sjones wrote:
    I saw a documentary about this about a month ago. It's a very sad situation :(
    I watched that documentary, and I thought it was absolutely terrible. They showed absolutely no sympathy towards Mr Georgiev or his family, and they even had a British policeman reenacting the stone/slab dropping incident. That part in particular I thought was absolutely sick.

    Basically all they done was made Shields out to be an angel. He was supposedly sleeping when everyone else was out. Yeah right! After a dramatic CL win a lad his age is in bed sleeping while his friends were out?! Give me a break! And basically they tried to make out that the Bulgarian police were nothing but a corrupt bunch of ex Soviets that took pleasure in putting away innocent people.

    I find it all very, very hard to believe personally. As would many other non-Liverpool supporters...


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,227 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    I think the point he was trying to make is that the clubs, be it Man Utd , Liverpool or Chelsea are responsiable to some degree of their fans actions at football matches be it home or away. I don't think he was reffering to the clubs helping out in normal crimes away from football...........


    This incident happened 5 days after the final hundreds of miles away in a completely different country, it has absolutely nothing to do woth Liverpool fc.
    PORNAPSTER wrote:
    And just for the sake of it... If a United fan was involved in this attempted murder you can bet your ass that Manchester United would do their utmost to have their fan arrested. They done so when a fan threw a flare onto the pitch at St. Mary's, so I'm sure they would do it if it was a murder.


    If the same guy had thrown that flare off a balcony in spain would Utd have been bothered? Cos thats about as close to Utd as this is to Liverpool. They can show support to one of their own fans without tryign to be the police. They have no power to do anything even if the guy stood in the centre circle at anfield and admitted it.

    PORNAPSTER wrote:
    Basically all they done was made Shields out to be an angel. He was supposedly sleeping when everyone else was out. Yeah right! After a dramatic CL win a lad his age is in bed sleeping while his friends were out?! Give me a break! And basically they tried to make out that the Bulgarian police were nothing but a corrupt bunch of ex Soviets that took pleasure in putting away innocent people.

    I find it all very, very hard to believe personally. As would many other non-Liverpool supporters...


    It was 5 days after the final. Plus the program said there was a party in the room, the lads were all there drinking and he went to sleep. Has nobody here ever fallen asleep at a party?

    Do these parts of the story interfere with your drivel in any way?


  • Posts: 22,384 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Oh dear, what's this. So the so called Sankey 'confession' was in fact retracted by him?

    http://www.itn.co.uk/news/index_1874821.html

    Surely as persuasive as all those websites that claimed the confession was something on which the whole case turned...

    Looks like the evidence against Shields grows ever bleaker.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,227 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    That artice is about the England hooligans haveing to give up their passports, he retracted his statement months ago.


  • Posts: 22,384 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Stekelly wrote:
    That artice is about the England hooligans haveing to give up their passports, he retracted his statement months ago.

    Fair enough, and he's perfectly entitled to do so. But clarly it seems that one or two posters like super_furry who believe that the statement was the be all and end all are completely unaware that it was subsequently retracted.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1 alien7


    Guys,
    I'm glad to see that most of you don't just swallow everything Michael Shields' cronies are telling.
    See what the Bulgarian sources say on the subject:
    ===============
    http://lex.gbg.bg/news.php?lang=bg&id=4539

    On 23 May [2005] a crowd of English Liverpool [football] fans pour out onto the [Bulgarian city of] Varna airfield (...) their destination being the finals (...) in Istanbul (...) on 25 May.

    Just a few hours after they put down their luggage [at a hotel], it becomes clear to everybody around that they're not peaceful tourists, but a horde of vandals. Who behave as if they are not guests at a normal resort, but members of some occupying force that have captured their enemy's capital city after a 6-month siege and daily round-the-clock bloody battles.

    From the indictment against Michael Shields, Anthony Wilson and Bradley Thompson:

    "Even as they came, almost all [British fans] were visibly alcohol-affected. Throughout their stay at the hotel, they were consuming alcohol, yelling loudly, disturbing the peace of other guests, who made many complaints; a lot of hotel room doors were damaged, mattresses and sheets on some beds were in holes and cut up with knives. Members of the group even thought nothing of urinating in corridors and in the hotel's entrance hall. According to witnesses (...) they were uncontrollable and did not comform to any comments addressed to them..."

    (...) t is still unknown why the rampaging Englishmen were not arrested, tried for hooliganism and loaded onto the first [England]-bound plane as early as 24 May.

    The real hell, however, starts after Liverpool's (...) victory (...).

    As early as dawn 26 May the British fans again "debark" at Golden Sands and celebrate their favourite team's formidable success with a 4-day partying "spreading" out to include the entire resort.

    (...) [T]he British fans' behaviour becomes even more arrogant and brutal. All day long they "promenade" in big gangs around the resort - drunk up to their eye-balls - singing football songs, yelling their club slogans and foul-mouthing anyone they meet.
    On 30 May at dawn they overdo it entirely, however, and the resulting dramatic events are thus described in the indictment:

    "...at about 5.00-5.30 a.m., witnesses D.D., R.B., A.D. (...), V.A and M.D. (...) were near the Bonkers disco and the (...) Big Ben fast-food shop. They witnessed a group of English tourists coming from the Shipka hotel way, who were noisy and yelling slogans in favour of Liverpool [football] club. According to the witnesses, the group numbered 10 and were extremely noisy. As they walked, apart from yelling and hitting each other, they took bottles from tables and shop-windows along the way and tossed them at each other. At the same time, they were aggressive to people that chanced in their way: they kicked them, spat on them and sprayed them with beer, - as well as knocking down litter bins they were coming past. Defendants Michael Shields, Anthony Wilson and Bradley Thompson (...) stood out as exceptionally aggressive among the group."

    At first, drunken Anthony Wilson enters Big Ben and sits down (...). A few minutes later (...) he starts taunting 4 early-risen English tourists - 2 men and 2 women. A no-less-drunk Bradley Thompson comes in too, sits down next to Wilson and both, with renewed force, start bullying their own compatriots. After they get tired of swearing and making indecent hand and finger gestures, Wilson and Thompson leave and... start hurling broken bottles at the cafe's windows. At this precise moment, Martin Georgiev comes out to see what's going on. According to the indictment, he:

    "...only managed to say "What's going on?", as defendants Wilson and Thompson knocked him down onto the ground and went on hitting and kicking him... At this moment, they were joined by defendant Michael Shields, who was holding an irregular-shape stone in his hands, with conspicuously sharp edges, about 25-27 cm [10-11 in.] large and weighing about 3.7 kg [over 8 pounds]. While approaching, he yelled loudly and had a beast-like appearance of one mad with fury. Having stopped over prostrate Georgiev, defendant Shields raised the stone with his hands up to head level and, with all his might, crashed it on the victim's head. The impact was so strong that the stone ricocheted off witness Georgiev's head and fell onto the ground next to the cafe's stairs. Having seen that, [female] witness Krumova started screaming with horror...".
    http://www.netinfo.bg/index.phtml?tid=40&oid=760862

    This was seen by witnesses Krumova, Yordanov, Dachev, Artyunyan, Bonzukov, Dyankov, Donchev, Katranjiev, Serzho Todorov.

    After the stone-attack, the three Englishmen stayed near their victim and tried to resume kicking him. Another employee (...) who was cleaning up the premises at the time came out to his fallen mate's help with a broom, to fight back the attackers. The three retreated towards Vladislav hotel, stopped, then ran away, continuing to smash bottles as they ran, and even knocked down an outside board-sign advertising a nearby shop.
    [Mr.]Skatskov and [Ms.]Krumova lifted the fallen man off the ground and sat him on a bench in the cafe. The victim was not responding to questions addressed to him, was unconscious, while his head was bleeding profusely.

    [Mr.] Skatskov went to try and find a doctor, as medical crews on the (...) premises were immediately informed and first aid was given to the victim on the spot. He was later driven to the (...) "Sv.Anna" (St Anne) hospital in Varna, where he was received into neurosurgery with diagnosed "brain contusion, broken skull, right epidural haematoma". A medical operation was urgently needed (...).

    This injury posed a real threat to the victim's life, and without adequately conducted surgical treatment, the outcome would have been lethal, is the experts' categorical opinion.
    http://lex.gbg.bg/news.php?lang=bg&id=4539

    After an hours-long struggle, surgeons in the (...) hospital succeed in saving Martin Georgiev's life, even though about 5 or 6 sq cm are absent from his skull, while (...) the surgical operation has revealed a "100-sq.cm [16 sq in] acute haematoma above the hard brain membrane (cortex?), as well as a torn Meningea media artery, accompanied by haemorrhaging."
    ===================

    Myself, I don't see any reason not to believe the Bulgarians' version of events.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,227 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Well thats quite obviously all true, case closed.




    "This was seen by witnesses Krumova, Yordanov, Dachev, Artyunyan, Bonzukov, Dyankov, Donchev, Katranjiev, Serzho Todorov."


    Gotta love that quote., seeing as the story above seems so sure of facts yet in court and in statements the witnesses could'nt be sure who had hit the waiter and who had dropped the stone. The guy himself said the same person did both. So who's account is true?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 38,227 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    alien7 wrote:
    Myself, I don't see any reason not to believe the Bulgarians' version of events.


    Yeah, becaus ewhy would THEY lie.

    Shades of "he speaks german, nobody who speaks german could be evil" about this.

    History is littered with people being nabbed for crimes they didnt commit because they were the nearest available Irishman, Protestant, Jew etc. You dont have to look any further than England for a good few ezamples. Yet this is the truth and nothing but?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,287 ✭✭✭joe_chicken


    He's guilty.

    The 'confession' is being touted by Shields website as conclusive proof, yet the man who confessed doesn't want to be charged with the crime.... WHAT???? WHAT????????

    If you were the Bulgarian Police, what would you do?... set them all free? forget about it?

    I can imagine what they'd say as they opened the prison cell door:

    "Ok Micheal, you cheaky English scamp you, we'll let you off with attempted manslaughter this time, we're so backward here in Bulgaria that we don't mind when you nearly club someone to death with a slab of concrete. What's that you say? witnesses? Pah! Probably just some drunken Bulgarians out for mischief, with their beady Bulgarian eyes, I'm surprised they could see anything. Run along now"

    Ridiculous.


    (p.s. supporting a malicous attack on anyone is not excusable, even if the perpetrator supports the same club as you)


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,323 ✭✭✭Hitchhiker's Guide to...


    the story does actually seem to be vey different to the one being touted by his family and supporters.

    At the very least, he is a scumbag...


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,397 ✭✭✭✭Degsy


    the story does actually seem to be vey different to the one being touted by his family and supporters.

    At the very least, he is a scumbag...


    And a liar.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 978 ✭✭✭bounty


    sounds guilty to me

    that site is just a bunch of loud mouth scousers trying to subvert justice, all because he was tried in a foreign country


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,268 ✭✭✭mountainyman


    it is a bit irrelevant whether he is a scumbag and a liar.

    3 English people attacked Georgiev
    Bradley and Wilson attcked Georgiev
    Shields was with Bradley and Wilson
    Georgiev had a block dropped on his head by a blonde giant
    Shields is a blonde giant
    Georgiev identified Shields


    which of these statements is untrue?


    Is the bulgarian criminal justice system suspect.
    If so why. It'll be an EU state in 2 years.
    Don't give me crap about corruption. There is corruption in Italy but you wouldn't assume that anyone convicted of murder there was necessarily innocent.

    MM


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 16,397 ✭✭✭✭Degsy


    I think the English get very stuffy when any of thier citizens gets convicted abroad.They have this idea that pretty much every other country is incapable of adminestring justice and is just out to frame the english.look atthe media circus over the baby-shaker Louise Woodward and that bird who got locked up in india for trying to smuggle dope..


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 618 ✭✭✭CrazySka


    I think the English get very stuffy when any of thier citizens gets convicted abroad.They have this idea that pretty much every other country is incapable of adminestring justice and is just out to frame the english.look atthe media circus over the baby-shaker Louise Woodward and that bird who got locked up in india for trying to smuggle dope..
    Id agree with that, at the end of the day Bulgaria is not a backward country in world terms, I very much doubt that they convicted Shields without witnesses that they felt were reliable. a country on the cusp of joining the EU is not going to send an obviously completely innocent man to jail on such a serious charge.

    There was a trial, evidence was presented, witnesses were called and Shields was found guilty. The "confession" by Sanky seems like just an attempt to throw doubt on the whole thing in my opinion. Im sure Bulgaria have an appeals system and if there is sufficient evidence to prove Shields is not guilty then he should be aqquitted. Without that kind of evidence how can people say hes not guilty?


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