Free Michael Shields

cournioni · 29-05-2006 06:58PM

Ikky Poo2 wrote:

I know... can't be all bad if he's been ther on 'numerous occasions'... (And passing through off the ferry doesn't count!)

At United away games...

cournioni · 29-05-2006 07:06PM

Deleted User wrote:

It's a bit sad that on this day, the 21st anniversary of the deaths of 39 Italian fans at Heysel, certain Liverpool fans would still be arguing that one of their number who was convicted of an extremely violent incident was innocent. The word 'respect' springs to mind.

And even at Heysel the Liverpool fans blamed Chelsea fans for causing the deaths of the 39 Juventus fans. Keeping in mind that it was a match between Liverpool and Juventus... Sure lads... It was the Chelsea fans...

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 29-05-2006 07:30PM

Are you guys just making this up because you're Man United fans, or do you have sources?!! Good Christ, the Nazi propoganda machine wasn't this active!!!

29-05-2006 07:36PM

Ikky Poo2 wrote:

Are you guys just making this up because you're Man United fans, or do you have sources?!!

No interest in Liverpool one way or the other to be honest. Follow Cork City FC, keep an eye out for Leeds results across the water. That's about it. Certinly don't care about the ManU - Liverpool thing.

So wher is the Telegraph lying anyway? What bits are they making up?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/08/07/nshield07.xml&sSheet=/news/2005/08/07/ixhome.html

Ikky Poo2 wrote:

Good Christ, the Nazi propoganda machine wasn't this active!!!

When in doubt refer to Nazis.

Incidentally, still no comment about Heysel on this day? You still think this thread is entirely appropriate on the anniversary of the most infamous day of football violence?

cournioni · 29-05-2006 08:31PM

Ikky Poo2 wrote:

Are you guys just making this up because you're Man United fans, or do you have sources?!! Good Christ, the Nazi propoganda machine wasn't this active!!!

*Ahem*

'No Scousers dress like that ,' he said, 'and it was clear they had just come for trouble.' Liverpool chairman Smith issued a statement saying that the troublemakers were NF supporters, probably from London, and that a shot had been fired before the worst part of the riot.

from http://observer.guardian.co.uk/osm/story/0,,1448503,00.html

Jimi-Spandex · 29-05-2006 09:47PM

super_furry wrote:

You either have no idea what you're wittering on about or are trolling. Either way, comments like that are flamebait. Would you have said the same of the Birmingham Six?

Actually, just browsing your past posts about people from Liverpool eating rats would lead me to believe you're a troll.

Okay, firstly that chant I posted is one in support of Park Ji Sung and is just banter. I don't honestly believe that everyone from Liverpool eats rats and lives in council houses. It is meant in jest. You have to admit that it is quite a light hearted chant compared to some of the muck that gets flung by both sets of fans.

Secondly, I have actually read quite alot about this incident. Originally I did support the man's cause, it looked like he had been stitched up. When I'd read a bit more about it alot of the points made by the free shields groups seem to be slightly dubious. Quite a few things latched on to seemed to me to be "nitpicky". You will find in any criminal case that if you throw the flood lights only on certain aspects of the case it will look doubtful, i.e. an inconclusive line up, a confession made on the condition that the confessor wouldn't face the rammifications. It's not very convincing, to me at least, when you look at it closely.

What annoys me about this is its the typical british superiority complex regarding foreign countries legal systems/cultures. Oh they do things differently in Bulgaria, those savages have no idea how to conduct a fair trial or investigation.

Do you honestly trust the word of a bunch of drunk lads on a holiday over the workings of a soverign nations legal system? I know bulgaria has its problems but really, come on?

Anyway, I know my views on this matter will be dismissed as typical Man Utd anti-scouse bullshit and I can understand why. You must also understand why it is a little hard to believe why so many people jumped on this bandwagon with scant knowledge of the facts simply because he is a liverpool fan.

I'm not going to bother debate this anymore, as I have done to death elsewhere and I'm sure you have.

Guy:Incognito · 30-05-2006 01:12AM

Jimi-Spandex wrote:

Okay, firstly that chant I posted is one in support of Park Ji Sung and is just banter. I don't honestly believe that everyone from Liverpool eats rats and lives in council houses. It is meant in jest. You have to admit that it is quite a light hearted chant compared to some of the muck that gets flung by both sets of fans.

Secondly, I have actually read quite alot about this incident. Originally I did support the man's cause, it looked like he had been stitched up. When I'd read a bit more about it alot of the points made by the free shields groups seem to be slightly dubious. Quite a few things latched on to seemed to me to be "nitpicky". You will find in any criminal case that if you throw the flood lights only on certain aspects of the case it will look doubtful, i.e. an inconclusive line up, a confession made on the condition that the confessor wouldn't face the rammifications. It's not very convincing, to me at least, when you look at it closely..

If it was you in jail would you consider any points, however small, in your favour to be "nitpicky"?

Jimi-Spandex wrote:

Do you honestly trust the word of a bunch of drunk lads on a holiday over the workings of a soverign nations legal system? I know bulgaria has its problems but really, come on?.

Would you trust the words of , oh I dont know, 2 random groups of lets say 4 and 6 irish people over the british legal system?

Dub13 · 30-05-2006 01:16AM

PORNAPSTER wrote:

Instead of freeing Michael Shields, Liverpool FC should concentrate on who the feck did attempt to murder Martin Georgiev.

This has absolutely nothing to do with Liverpool Football Club.

Guy:Incognito · 30-05-2006 01:39AM

I just read the telegraph article now. I've seen the tv program and read a good bit from various sources. The telegraph article saya that the victim idenified shields as the guy who hit him and the witnesses said he dropped the brick, yet the witnesses said it was two different people (one hit him, the other dropped the brick). The english guy that was in the restaurant and argues with the lads. was he not on the trevor mcdonald program about it saying it wasnt shields? Where is he in the telegraphs story?
as well as that, the anti shields people seem to focus on the fact that if the 2 groups had rooms next to each
other, they must know each other. wtf? I couldnt tell you who was in the rooms either side of me on any of my foreign holidays.

Dirk Gently · 30-05-2006 01:49AM

I could be wrong but I remember following this story a while ago and another English football supporter actually admitted to the attack but because of whatever extradition laws are between the two countries he couldn't legally be extradited as he was already back home in Liverpool when he owned up.

This is seen as the reason why Michael Shields is still held. Someone to blame and an illusion of justice for the family of the victim. A scouse murdered one of ours so we’ll lock up a scouse. (Any scouse) If they released Michael Shields it is unlikely they would get the real murdered to stand trial.

dermot_sheehan · 30-05-2006 02:06AM

Ok bearing in mind the only information I know on this case is from the Telegraph article, if this has happened in Ireland or the UK he would have been locked up. There were multiple eye witnesses who independently identified him as the perpretrator of the horrendous assault.

His defence was bs, and the judges and juror members decided wasn't credible. Apparently the defence claimed he was asleep at the time, and for some reason multiple eye witnesses came in to see him asleep. I don't know about you but if I was on a jury assessing the credibility of witness testimony that would not seem credible. The only other defence, is a "confession", a statement that is inadmissable, because it's not on oath (so if the testator lied in the statement he could not be prosecuted for perjury).

Face it, you go to a forgein country, you submit to its justice system. The bulgarian justice system is fair, and based on what was said seems to have come to a fair conclusion. You bash someone's head in with a pavement stone, and nearly kill them, you serve 15 years in prison, it's justice. The brits seem to have this incredible superiority complex with regard to forgein justice systems, despite the fact that their own one made some horrendous mistakes in the not too distant past.

Guy:Incognito · 30-05-2006 02:10AM

gabhain7 wrote:

There were multiple eye witnesses who independently identified him as the perpretrator of the horrendous assault.
.

Hardly, they were all workers in the same restaurant. They had plenty of time and inclanation to corroborate stories.

dermot_sheehan · 30-05-2006 02:17AM

What inclination would they have though to frameup the wrong person. They'd want the person who actually carried out the assult in jail, not some random brit. And how would they have plenty of time? It's not like they'd have a discussion after the assult with their friend bleeding on the ground about who to stitch up, they'd be in shock, they'd be interviewed by the police, the police would then independently take them to the police station to identify the perpretrator from a line up, that's how these things happen. There would have been no time to conspire, there would have been no motive to conspire.

Contrast with the defence, who seem to claim that the defendent was in bed, but for some reason all his mates were up and wondering in and out of his room for various apparent reasons, verifying that he was there. How credible does that sound? Do you think the judges and jurors are eejits? I can imagine it being torn to threads under cross examination.

fade2black · 30-05-2006 02:30AM

These things really amaze me. None of you people were present at this crime yet you all seem convinced about his guilt or innocence. Is it possible that a humanatrian issue has acually come down to a dispute between rival soccer fans.

Out of curiousity...are there any pool fans that think Michael is guilty? Any opposition fans that think he's innocent?

dermot_sheehan · 30-05-2006 02:38AM

I was not at the scene, I'm relying on the evidence as reported that was presented to the judge and jury. The evidence is multiple direct eye witness testimonies of actualy involvement in the attack vs. an alibi defence that does not seem credible in the slightest.

cournioni · 30-05-2006 08:23AM

Dub13 wrote:

This has absolutely nothing to do with Liverpool Football Club.

Yes, this had absolutely nothing to do with Liverpool Football Club...

http://www.freemichaelshields.org/mosaic/fmkopmosaic1.jpg

It was a Liverpool fan that dropped the slab. Liverpool FC should be helping the Bulgarian police to find the offender rather than just assume that Shields was innocent.

Dub13 · 30-05-2006 11:22AM

PORNAPSTER wrote:

It was a Liverpool fan that dropped the slab. Liverpool FC should be helping the Bulgarian police to find the offender rather than just assume that Shields was innocent.

Believe me I am well aware of most aspects of this case.Clubs are not responsible for the actions of there fans 100s of miles from games,if this was the case Rangers should be helping the PSNI convict that youth who killed a Celtic fan up the north a few weeks ago.

Guy:Incognito · 30-05-2006 11:58AM

gabhain7 wrote:

What inclination would they have though to frameup the wrong person. They'd want the person who actually carried out the assult in jail, not some random brit. And how would they have plenty of time? .

They could well want to make sure they got someone for attacking their friend. The tv program also stated that they were together for a few hours and that michaels shieds was handcuffed to a radiator in the lobby of the police station overnight for all to see before the line up. It's very easy to convince yourself that a particular person is the perpetraitor especially if the police have arrested him.

PORNAPSTER wrote:

It was a Liverpool fan that dropped the slab. Liverpool FC should be helping the Bulgarian police to find the offender rather than just assume that Shields was innocent.

Are Utd involved in every crime commited by a person who happened to pick utd as their team to support?

Degsy · 30-05-2006 12:15PM

Who gives a damn about an alleged murderer and his football alliances?This whole football "we did this" and "you did that" from fans is pitifull..talk about something meaningfull.

fade2black · 30-05-2006 12:18PM

Dub13 wrote:

Believe me I am well aware of most aspects of this case.Clubs are not responsible for the actions of there fans 100s of miles from games,if this was the case Rangers should be helping the PSNI convict that youth who killed a Celtic fan up the north a few weeks ago.

Well that's probably the stupidest thing I'm going to read all day.

Dub13 · 30-05-2006 12:26PM

fade2black wrote:

Well that's probably the stupidest thing I'm going to read all day.

I was not being serious thats the whole point of my reply,a club cannot be responsible for the actions of its fans.

fade2black · 30-05-2006 12:37PM

I understand that you weren't being serious Dub13, but remember the days when English teams were banned from Europe? All the times that teams get banned, fined, deducted points, all because of the actions of their fans. In one way because this happened outside of the ground, you're right, but on the other hand it did happen while he was away suppporting his team.

This is one area where I would never play the "team" card because although it's a liverpool fan in the dock now, it could've easily been a man utd fan. Get 40 thousand plus people together, add a spoonfull of hysteria and a barrel full of alcohol and there will always be bad eggs, no matter what team they support.

Big Nelly · 30-05-2006 01:53PM

Was part of the thread on this in the soccer forum and still think the same, there have been witnesses etc who saw this guy smash some poor blokes head in, why is it so difficult to believe he done it? sure every jail bird has a sob story that they didnt do it. It has been proven he is guilty and the UK press twisting the story to make out he is a helpless little boy been picked on by those bad foreign men doesn't change that.

To show this watch that stupid show UTV done on it when some random bloke came on saying he was a surprise witness and if there was an appeal he would go ot it, funny thou this great witness wouldnt show his face.

Unless he is proven innocent he should stay where he is, at the moment he has been found guilty and thats the end of the story. The UK press will twist the story as many times as possible to sell papers. How many times has this been brought up in the press with some new witness etc? its to sell papers! the press dont give a **** what happens to him or to the poor bloke whos head was smashed in

fade2black · 30-05-2006 02:00PM

I neither agree nor disagree with you Nelly but I think we both know where the thread is going to go from here.

30-05-2006 02:04PM

Big Nelly wrote:

there have been witnesses etc who saw this guy smash some poor blokes head in, why is it so difficult to believe he done it?

True, but then again the whole world saw Heysel yet some Liverpool fans still actually believe it was Chelsea fans and the Belgian police...

kdevitt · 30-05-2006 02:04PM

Big Nelly wrote:

Unless he is proven innocent he should stay where he is, at the moment he has been found guilty and thats the end of the story.

Its quite difficult for this to happen when the court won't allow any new evidence to be heard. I'm certain that this thread would be taking a different direction if Shields was Irish.

Big Nelly · 30-05-2006 02:09PM

kdevitt wrote:

Its quite difficult for this to happen when the court won't allow any new evidence to be heard. I'm certain that this thread would be taking a different direction if Shields was Irish.

Why? sure it doesnt matter where he is from, at the moment a court of law has proved he is guilty and end of story. Whats this great new evidence? some bloke in the UK said he might have done it and then retract his statement saying it wasnt him.

If there was all this evidence why wasn't it used in the first place? why wait till he is in jail and then all of a sudden there is new evidence once the press get there hands on it.

30-05-2006 02:09PM

kdevitt wrote:

I'm certain that this thread would be taking a different direction if Shields was Irish.

Possibly, or on the other hand if the victim was Irish we'd wonder why they weren't all in jail. But the victim is Bulgarian, the perpetrator is at least one of a few English thugs who have lied repeatedly, Shields or his cousins, why should we be that concerned ultimately...

kdevitt · 30-05-2006 02:31PM

Its really not worth anyones energy to have this debate - yes, he was found guilty in court, although I would have thought that given the number of Irish miscarriages of justice down through the years, you would not find it beyond the realms of possibility that he was stitched up.

Fair Trials Abroad have valid doubts over the trial, they're impartial, thats about it, www.fairtrialsabroad.org if you're mind isn't already made up.

Big Nelly · 30-05-2006 02:36PM

kdevitt wrote:

Its really not worth anyones energy to have this debate - yes, he was found guilty in court, although I would have thought that given the number of Irish miscarriages of justice down through the years, you would not find it beyond the realms of possibility that he was stitched up.

Fair Trials Abroad have valid doubts over the trial, they're impartial, thats about it, www.fairtrialsabroad.org if you're mind isn't already made up.

Did you watch the ITV program where they had the ex-dective and spent the whole time going on how this could never happen etc in the great British legal system. Spent the whole time going on about how crap Bulgaria's system is compared to the British system

Was waiting for someone to ask him why the great British system left Irish rotting in jails for year when they knew they where innocent.

Again its all press crap to sell papers!!

Free Michael Shields

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