The Great Big 9/11 Conspiracy Theory Thread [Megamerge]

What about this stunning testimony from Norman Mineta?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=bDfdOwt2v3Y&search=mineta

Vice President Cheney as the plane approached the Pentagon:
“The orders still stand”
Secretary of Transportation Norman Mineta provided provocative testimony before the 9-11 Commission. He testified that he went down to the Presidential Emergency Operations Center under the White House at about 9:20 on 9/11/01. Vice President Cheney was there and in charge as President Bush was not in Washington, DC. Secretary Mineta related:
During the time that the airplane was coming in to the Pentagon, there was a young man who would come in and say to the Vice President,
"The plane is 50 miles out."
"The plane is 30 miles out."
And when it got down to "the plane is 10 miles out," the young man also said to the Vice President, "Do the orders still stand?"
And the Vice President turned and whipped his neck around and said, "Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?"


Why then did the 9/11 commission completely ignore this testimony and claim Cheney never even reached the bunker till after 10am?

Cheney instinctively knew what happened to flight 93

Cheney recalls taking charge from bunker

WASHINGTON (CNN) --As horrified Americans watched the terror attacks of September 11, 2001, unfold on their television sets, Vice President Dick Cheney directed the U.S. government's response from an emergency bunker.

The actions included moving key members of Congress to a secure location and having the Secret Service bring his wife, Lynn, to the bunker.

Cheney was in his West Wing office when he received word that a plane had struck the World Trade Center. He watched TV and hoped that his instincts were wrong.

"It was a clear day, there were no weather problems, and then we saw the second airplane hit in real time," Cheney told CNN's John King in an interview in the vice president's office.

"At that moment, you knew this was a deliberate act. This was a terrorist act."

He called President Bush in Florida and spoke with top aides. Then his door burst open.

"My [Secret Service] agent all of a sudden materialized right beside me and said, 'Sir, we have to leave now.' He grabbed me and propelled me out of my office, down the hall, and into the underground shelter in the White House," Cheney said.

In White House terminology, it is the PEOC, short for the Presidential Emergency Operations Center.

"I didn't know that it existed until I was actually down there, and I'm sure I could find my way back there to this day," said Mary Matalin, a counselor to the vice president.

A relic of the Cold War, the deep underground bunker became the vice president's base of operations on the first day of a new war.

After the planes struck the twin towers, a third took a chunk out of the Pentagon. Cheney then heard a report that a plane over Pennsylvania was heading for Washington. A military assistant asked Cheney twice for authority to shoot it down.

"The vice president said yes again," remembered Josh Bolton, deputy White House chief of staff. "And the aide then asked a third time. He said, 'Just confirming, sir, authority to engage?' And the vice president -- his voice got a little annoyed then -- said, 'I said yes.'"

It was a rare flash of anger from a man who knew he was setting the tone at a White House in crisis.

"I think there was an undertone of anger there. But it's more a matter of determination. You don't want to let your anger overwhelm your judgment in a moment like this," Cheney said.

Word came that Flight 93 crashed in Pennsylvania. Aides frantically called the White House to find out whether a military jet had shot it down.

"The vice president was a little bit ahead of us," said Eric Edelman, Cheney's national security advisor. "He said sort of softly and to nobody in particular, 'I think an act of heroism just took place on that plane.'"

Cheney and staffers watched in horror as the first tower of the World Trade Center collapsed. Matalin remembered the moment.

"Oddly everything just stopped. Not for long, but it did stop totally at that moment," she said. "[Cheney] emoted in a way that he emotes, which was to stop."

After the brief lull, Cheney and the White House staffers got back to business, which included checking the tail numbers of the last airplanes unaccounted for when national air traffic was ordered to halt.

"It was about 12:15 or 12:20 [p.m. ET] when I said to the vice president, 'Mr. Vice President, all the planes are down, and he said, 'Great, thank you very much,'" Edelman said.

Some aides suggested that Cheney was a possible target and should not stay at the White House. He said no.

"I had communications with the president, communications with the Pentagon, Secret Service and so forth. And we could continue to operate there, and if I left, I'd lose all that," Cheney said.

Lynn Cheney was a constant presence. She leaned in at one point to tell the vice president that their daughters were fine.

"It's something you think about, but again, it's not so much a personal consideration at that point. It may have been for people who didn't have anything to do," Cheney said.

It was the bunker's first test in an actual emergency, a day of crisis with some hitches.

Cheney wanted to track TV reports of the devastation and listen in on communications with the Pentagon.

"You can have sound on one or the other and he found that technically imperfect," Matalin recalled.

The vice president had a few words with the president just before the latter's address to the nation. CIA Director George Tenet watched from the bunker, waiting for Bush to convene a late-night meeting of the National Security Council.

"I guess the thing I was struck by was the extent to which he had begun to grapple with these problems and to make decisions, that we were in a war on terror," Cheney said.

Cheney spoke once more to the president, and then took a nighttime ride past the Pentagon, heavily damaged in the attacks.

"I recall watching the vice president, who was staring out the window at the Pentagon, and wondering what he may be thinking about, the responsibilities he would have in the future. A pretty sobering moment," said Lewis Libby, Cheney's chief of staff.

It is a memory that Cheney said has shaped every day since then.

"As we lifted off and headed up the Potomac [River], you could look out and see the Pentagon, see that black hole where it'd been hit. A lot of lights on the building, smoke rising from the Pentagon," he said.

"And you know, it really helped to bring home the impact of hat had happened, that we had in fact been attacked."

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/09/11/ar911.king.cheney/index.html

Kersh wrote:

Now, to my questions -
1) How did a B52 hit the ESB in the late 40s when B52s didnt come into service til the very late 50s, early 60s??

Honest mistake, which sceptics jump on to try and discredit the whole video.

2) How come only one engine wreckage is seen at the Pentagon, when the alleged A3 that did hit it has 2 engines?

No definite idea what hit the pentagon, except like you said it wasn't a 757, especially piloted by somebody as incompetent as Hanjour was.

3) Why did the cellphone tests go up to 32000', when the calls were made by hijacked passengers from a much lower altitude (for example callers identifying buildings/water, so they must have been low enough), so it was pointless using 32000' as 'marker' altitude to prove that cellphones didnt work, cos calls were made from lower altitudes??

If cell phones were capable of this on 9/11 why would QualComm have to invent a way to do it years after...

http://www.qualcomm.com/press/releases/2004/040715_aa_testflight.html

From this and other articles it looks like cell phone calls were near on impossible. However on 9/11 nearly everybody who tried, managed to make calls without any problems.

4) The archive footage of buildings being demolished shows lots of loud explosions/flashes to bring much smaller buildings down. How come only a few flashes are seen and explosions reported, yet they brought down huge towers??

There are a huge number of firefighters who were on the scene who reported many explosions and flashes going off at the lower levels of the buildings. Here are some quotes taken from the official 9/11 records...

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/html/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/met_WTC_histories_full_01.html

NEW YORK TIMES ‘ORAL HISTORIES’ - WTC TASK FORCE INTERVIEWS
ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER STEPHEN GREGORY Interview Date: October 3, 2001

pgs 14-16: I know I was with an officer from Ladder 146, a Lieutenant Evangelista, who ultimately called me up a couple of days later just to find out how I was. We both for whatever reason -- again, I don't know how valid this is with everything that was going on at that particular point in time, but for some reason I thought that when I looked in the direction of the Trade Center before it came down, before No. 2 came down, that I saw low-level flashes. In my conversation with Lieutenant Evangelista, never mentioning this to him, he questioned me and asked me if I saw low-level flashes in front of the building, and I agreed with him because I thought -- at that time I didn't know what it was. I mean, it could have been as a result of the building collapsing, things exploding, but I saw a flash flash flash and then it looked like the building came down.

Q. Was that on the lower level of the building or up where the fire was?

A. No, the lower level of the building. You know like when they demolish a building, how when they blow up a building, when it falls down? That's what I thought I saw.

CAPTAIN KARIN DESHORE Interview Date: November 7, 2001

pg 11: Whatever this explosion was simply sucked all the oxygen out of the air.

pg 15: Somewhere around the middle of the world trade center, there was this orange and red flash coming out. Initially it was just one flash. Then this flash just kept popping all the way around the building and that building had started to explode. The popping sound, and with each popping sound it was initially an orange and then a red flash came out of the building and then it would just go all around the building on both sides as far as I could see. These popping sounds and the explosions were getting bigger, going both up and down and then all around the building.

DEPUTY COMMISSIONER THOMAS FlTZPATRlCK Interview Date: October 1, 2001

pgs 13-14: We looked up at the building straight up, we were that close. All we saw was a puff of smoke coming from about 2 thirds of the way up. Some people thought it was an explosion. I don't think I remember that. I remember seeing, it looked like sparkling around one specific layer of the building. I assume now that that was either windows starting to collapse like tinsel or something. Then the building started to come down. My initial reaction was that this was exactly the way it looks when they show you those implosions on TV.

FIREFIGHTER EDWARD CACHIA Interview Date: December 6, 2001

pg 5: As my officer and I were looking at the south tower, it just gave. It actually gave at a lower floor, not the floor where the plane hit, because we originally had thought there was like an internal detonation explosives because it went in succession, boom, boom, boom, boom, and then the tower came down.

FIREFIGHTER KENNETH ROGERS Interview Date: December 10, 2001

pgs 3-4: … then there was an explosion in the south tower, which according to this map, this exposure just blew out in flames. A lot of guys left at that point. I kept watching. Floor after floor after floor. One floor under another after another and when it hit about the fifth floor, I figured it was a bomb, because it looked like a synchronized deliberate kind of thing. I was there in '93.

FIRE MARSHAL JOHN COYLE Interview Date: December 28, 2001

pgs 15-16: While I was down at Battery Park, I finally got through on my phone to my father and said, “I’m alive. I just wanted to tell you, go to church, I’m alive. I just so narrowly escaped this thing.” He said, “where were you? You were there?” I said, “yeah, I was right there when it blew up.” He said, “you were there when the planes hit?” I said, “no, I was there when it exploded, the building exploded.” He said, “you mean, when it fell down?” I said, “no, when it exploded.” I still didn’t realized what had happened. I totally thought it had been blown up. That’s just the perspective of looking up at it, it seemed to have exploded out. But that I guess was the force of the upper stories collapsing down.

BATTALION CHIEF DOMINICK DeRUBBIO Interview Date: October 12, 2001

pg 5: It was weird how it started to come down. It looked like it was a timed explosion, but I guess it was just the floors starting to pancake one on top of the other.

ASSISTANT COMMISSIONER JAMES DRURY Interview Date: October 16, 2001

pg 6: We were in the process of getting some rigs moved when I turned, as I heard a tremendous roar, explosion, and saw that the first of the two towers was starting to come down.

pg 7: That was the north tower now coming down. I should say that people in the street and myself included thought that the roar was so loud that the explosive - bombs were going off inside the building. Obviously we were later proved wrong.

pg 12: As I said I thought the terrorists planted explosives somewhere in the building. That's how loud it was, crackling explosive, a wall.

FIREFIGHTER CHRISTOPHER FENYO Interview Date: December 11, 2001

pg 3: There was an explosion at the top of the Trade Center and a piece of Trade Center flew across the West Side Highway and hit the Financial Center.

pg 5: About a couple minutes after George came back to me is when the south tower from our perspective exploded from about midway up the building.

pgs 6-7: At that point a debate began to rage because the perception was that the building looked like it had been taken out with charges. We had really no concept of the damage on the east side of 2 World Trade Center at that point, and at that point many people had felt that possibly explosives had taken out 2 World Trade…

FIREFIGHTER KEVIN MURRAY: Interview Date: October 9, 2001

pg 7: We helped a lady out of there and we started walking up to the third floor. That third floor was clear. There was no damage, nothing. We got up to the fifth floor and there was severe damage. The ceilings had come down, the some walls had caved in. … Then we went to the sixth floor and did the same thing. Same sort of damage up there.

Many people have ridiculously tried to claim they were all just confused and seeing things that weren't there.

secret_squirrel wrote:

Oh come on!

I dont doubt that Shayler was a genuine whistleblower who made some very valid allegations that were valid Years ago. But seriously now the man is a an attention seeker nothing more nothing less just jumping on the 9/11 conspiracy bandwagon coz he's sad and bitter over the way he has been treated.

Did you even watch the video, and listen to what he had to say?

Pongo wrote:

No need to insult him though, and Shayler isn't someone I'd exactly trust on anything, but's that's off topic.

It was just an observation.

Eh, I suggested you should stop copying and pasting whole articles, and blindly posting links to videos left right and centre. My point is, if you, or anyone else can't prove that it was Edna Cintron, then you shouldn't be claiming it is.

I didn't claim it was, who ever made the video did.

Do a search on a so called 'Jumper' on 9/11, I won't post his name, but he was one of the unfortunate people photographed jumping from the WTC. He was identified as a worker in the Windows of the World restaurant, but when his family were informed, they didn't want to know. Their choice, and the matter was laid to rest. This, I think, is something worse, you're claiming it was her, but have absolutely no idea if it was. It's just not right.

There was a program on recently called 9/11:the falling man, which tried to find out who he was. He was wrongly identified at first, but the Canadian(not sure) reporter then went and showed the pictures to people who were working in the restaurant. He was identified by a fellow worker, and this was confirmed by his sister who seemed genuinely glad she found out exactly what happened to him.

Some of the videos and links you've posted have been interesting, others are just way over the top. Actually I found the Kennedy clip fascinating, and the interview with Cheney's aide about Cheney taking control was very interesting....(it was you that posted them, right? Either way, one of your threads led to them being posted so I'm kinda right!)

Yeah I posted those two vids. Like you said they were at the least very interesting, yet these have not been seen by the vast majority of people.

How can people form a real opinion without looking at all the evidence?

Yes, I DO have serious doubts, specifically about what really happened Flight 93. My feeling, for the record, is that although the passengers may have attempted to take back control of the plane, it was shot down before they had a chance to do so. I'd love to search for various theories, discussions, web sites etc that deal with Flight 93, and investigate my theory further, but it's hard to see through the blatant crap out there.

There was an official site on the recently released united 93 film, but they had to delete all the posts on the forums becuase there were so many people questioning the official version of events. The third time they shut down the whole site.

And that's what a lot of the 'theories' are. Crap.

No doubt many of them are, but that's just your opinion. I mean I think your theory on flight 93 is crap, but it isn't my or your job to come up with feasible theories. That was supposed to be the job of the 9/11 commission, which was a complete sham, as they avoided all the difficult questions that have never been answered.

I suggest having a look at this short video which has a look at the findings of the commission...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-398081814159578985&q=9%2F11+commission

This has been done to death on other threads. They did not report explosions going off. Watch the video by the two French Brothers, the one shot inside the towers, I can't remember their names or the name of the video, but in it, later in the day, back at the Firehouse the Firefighters are discussing what happened and what they heard, and they say the collapse SOUNDED like explosions.

I think you are referring to the Naudet brothers documentary, which I have seen. What did you think of the widespread damage to the lobby?

They didn't say, they were explosions. That was a very, very stressful day, nobody really knew what was happening until it was all over, using what Firefighters said the collapse sounded like doesn't support your theory very much...

I just quoted many of the firefighters who were interviewed weeks and months later when they still report numerous explosions.

Anywhere, can you show me a legit video with a pre collapse explosion, or flash?

Here is a link to a video called 9/11 eyewitness, in which numerous explosions can clearly be heard before the buildings came down...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3498980438587461603

Let me know what you think.

bonkey wrote:

There isn't one photo or video-clip in that article....which is what was asked for.

Here is a short clip which shows flashes going off down the side of the building. Right click and save as.

http://www.prisonplanet.tv/video/911_WTC2_floor_pops_out_followed_by_a_stream_of_flashes_and_smoke_puffs.wmv