i guess i picked the wrong week to give up sniffing glue

Bandana boy · 25-05-2006 09:49AM #1

1-2 6 max NLHE

Villain 1 UTG a muppet his range is anything stack 23
Villain 2 CO No real read seems solid enough stack 250
Hero Button Stack 300
Limped to CO who makes it 6 to play on Button i make it 16 with 2 black Aces
Blinds fold
Utg goes all in and CO calls as do i (i cant reraise )

Pot 72
Flop KK6 2 hearts
And CO open pushs for 227

Action

ligger · 25-05-2006 10:00AM

He could have AQ of hearts... But Me thinks AK or KK most likely, I fold like and wait for a better spot.

breadmonkey · 25-05-2006 10:02AM

That's a toughie. He can't be bluffing since the shorty is all in but sureley he'd want you to come along for the ride if he has AK or something, but he has to give you credit for possible AK.

Maybe he has flopped an absolute monster and is doing this to baffle you into calling. KK? No, I don't know what's going on...

marius · 25-05-2006 10:08AM

Im thinking 6 6 and he is praying you have a AK or some Kx. Fold

WH BONNEY · 25-05-2006 10:15AM

My guess is he has flopped a boat, holding 6 6. He is happy to take it down now rather than let you see any more cards & possibly hitting a bigger boat. He may also feel that if you have AK here you are definitely calling & he will be way in front (5:1 me thinks).

I reluctantly fold.

5starpool · 25-05-2006 10:24AM

I would call. Obviously this guy could be pulling the whole 'Would I really bet with a king or 66?' trick, but my guess is that he has 99-QQ here. I would call and maybe have to use my backup mouse if I was wrong.

padraig_f · 25-05-2006 10:32AM

First off, I don't like the size of your pre-flop raise. I think you need to make it $25 or so here. You're pretty much announcing you have a big pair and giving your opponent good implied odds to outdraw you.

To the flop then....it's not 66 (would expect him to play it slower), it's not a bluff, I don't think it's a semi-bluff with a flush draw (check-raise would be a more likely move with that hand). It's a pocket-pair or a king. Since you announced you likely have a big pair pre-flop (and his pocket pair must also be afraid of a king), I think it's more likely to be a king than a pocket pair. So fold.

Bandana boy · 25-05-2006 10:38AM

padraig_f wrote:

First off, I don't like the size of your pre-flop raise. I think you need to make it $25 or so here. QUOTE]

other opinions on my pre flop raise ?

fuzzbox · 25-05-2006 10:41AM

Raise more preflop.
Call now.

ianmc38 · 25-05-2006 10:44AM

I dont have a problem with 16. I'd usually double the raise or a little more myself, but I think your raise was fine. I'm calling here.

fuzzbox · 25-05-2006 10:47AM

16 aint terrible, but I like to pot it.
6 + 2 per limper + blinds + call + raise .. say 2 limpers, then 6+4+3+6+21=27 to play.

Its very difficult for villain to show a profit against your Aces if you get 10% of his stack in preflop (show a profit long term).

ArmaniJeanss · 25-05-2006 10:52AM

Is there a case for a smaller pre-flop raise here?
If you raise $8 to $14 then it allows you a re-raise if UTG goes all-in.
Obviously it helps if you know enough about UTG to know he is likely to go all-in with a wide range when so short-stacked.

This is a move I sometimes use in STTs, may not be suitable for cash.

ianmc38 · 25-05-2006 10:58AM

Well if villain is a total donk who'll 3 bet preflop with anything less than AA then by all means min-raise him and hope he pushes.

I cannot imagine 1% of cash game players will do that though.

PS: Min-raising preflop stinks of aces/kings and sucks.

padraig_f · 25-05-2006 11:38AM

5starpool wrote:

I would call. Obviously this guy could be pulling the whole 'Would I really bet with a king or 66?' trick, but my guess is that he has 99-QQ here. I would call and maybe have to use my backup mouse if I was wrong.

Ok so 99-QQ. Do you think he's bluffing with these hands or do you think he believes he has the best hand? If he thought he had the best hand, why not push pre-flop? Why would he see a flop, see 2 kings come out and then push?

If he thinks he doesn't have the best hand but wants to try and represent a K, wouldn't a check-raise be a more likely option for him?

Bandana boy · 25-05-2006 11:38AM

Min raising stinks
As many players on Co will often raise (as do i when co ) to take control of the pot with suited connectors etc my range for re-raising pre is more than AA AK KK i will (depending on situation ) play this hand the same way pre with 99 up
So in order not to clearly define between AA and say TT i like 16 but comments taken on board
Before flop is dealt i am pretty happy 72 pot and i have postion and a hand

My thought process
what is my callers range ?
Assuming he is standard enough player the 2BB raise pre flop could be 66-99 maybe or suited connectors and a suited ace maybe a suited KQ/KJ
I think he re-raises me with AK QQ he defo re-raises me with AA KK
I think he calls with the rest of his range 10 into 72
So We have him on likely Suited Ace, PP JJ or under Suited connector
and maybe but unlikely AK/QQ

so which of that range pushes 227 into 72 ?

cardshark202 · 25-05-2006 02:47PM

ianmc38 wrote:

I dont have a problem with 16. I'd usually double the raise or a little more myself, but I think your raise was fine. I'm calling here.

ianmc38 wrote:

Min-raising preflop stinks of aces/kings and sucks.

Seriously though I call here, I can't be drawing dead anyways. I also agree you should have raised more. Padraig_f's amount seems nice.

a-k-47 · 25-05-2006 03:02PM

Tough call here, maybe villain is afraid of you drawing to a flushed board against his Kx. This may also be reversed with him on a draw... i cannot see why he would push with a monster unless trying to induce a bluff overbet to get paid. hard to tell without any good read on villain, think my ten seconds would be up by now so fcuk it close your eyes and call

Bandana boy · 25-05-2006 03:29PM

So we have some folds because its Kx or 66 what do the call people think he has ?

sunzz · 25-05-2006 03:32PM

Tough, u don't have that much in the pot compared to ur stack. You can get away from it, that said I think I would come to the conclusion he has Queens and make the call.

ianmc38 · 25-05-2006 03:33PM

ianmc38 wrote:

I dont have a problem with 16. I'd usually double the raise or a little more myself, but I think your raise was fine. I'm calling here.

Yes if for example somebody raises to 9, then i'll often double the raise - 18+9 = 27 to play.

Not min-raise as you've misinterpreted.

cardshark202 wrote:

Sorry ian, your post was a little ambiguous

No problem. hope that cleared it up.

Bandana boy · 25-05-2006 03:36PM

i iniatially thought QQ but this is horrendous play from QQ
He maybe gets AA to fold but is insta called by AK KK and folded by QQ JJ TT 99
essentially my range
so 5 times out of 7 this costs him money

sunzz · 25-05-2006 03:55PM

Yea its a terrible play with qq, but look at the levels 1/2 is not exactly high stakes poker material.

Can we defo rule out AJh here?

That Said m still leaning towards QQ.

cardshark202 · 25-05-2006 04:08PM

ianmc38 wrote:

No problem. hope that cleared it up.

Yup thats better

. Against most opponents and depending on the size of the pot, I would usually make a similiar size raise to the one you suggested.

sunzz · 25-05-2006 04:44PM

he had ?

Bandana boy · 26-05-2006 09:20AM

i made the call
and he had KQ

I have been replaying the hand as it was a pretty substantial pot for 1-2 and the more i think about it this is hardly ever a bluff
but at the time i convinced myself this was badly played QQ

i guess i picked the wrong week to give up sniffing glue

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