"No outsiders" to buy houses in Meath

FillSpectre · 17-05-2006 11:58AM

Gurgle wrote:

Conditional housing, housing lists?
What are you talking about?

Are you that deep in the scrounger mentality that you don't know its possible to live without government handouts?

This has nothing to do with housing lists. This is about preventing people from owning property because they aren't from the area.

What do you not understand?

I think you have failed to understand what has actually happened and what some politician suggested.

If you had paid attention you might realise that I have been speaking about conditional housing and planning not all housing. Name a place where it is in fact in place that you can't buy any private property unless you are local?

You are getting awful angry about this considering it hasn't happened the way you think it has. Your horror story about if it spreads might be accurate but it hasn't even started. You really need to relax and choose what to get angry about. First start with actually knowing something and then decide if you don't like it then complain but try not to get angry with somebody explaining it to you.;)

If you could explain how and why you think I am scrounger or have the mentality of one I would appreciate it.

seamus wrote:

Sale of land privately requires no approval from the council.

That is not quite true council housing sold can have conditions stating that you may not sell the property for a number of years and/or if you do they must approve the people buying. AS genberal rule it is true though. PLanning can also insist that area remains green even though in private ownership. Property and land deals are very old hence it is not straight forward like other trading.

Gurgle · 17-05-2006 12:43PM

FillSpectre wrote:

You are getting awful angry about this considering it hasn't happened the way you think it has.

Unless you can explain why its OK to line the pockets of 'locals' to the detriment of everybody else, I'm finished attempting to discuss this with you.

FillSpectre · 17-05-2006 12:54PM

Gurgle wrote:

Unless you can explain why its OK to line the pockets of 'locals' to the detriment of everybody else, I'm finished attempting to discuss this with you.

I don't need to explain it because it isn't happening why do you think it is? You aren't discussing this with me you are making accusations that aren't true. Nobody is being stopped from buying a private house give me one example of this happening.
Local councils provide housing chances for locals through various means is all that is actually happening.

Eoin · 17-05-2006 12:58PM

FillSpectre wrote:

Nobody is being stopped from buying a private house give me one example of this happening.
Local councils provide housing chances for locals through various means is all that is actually happening.

That is the point I was trying to determine - the OP seems to think that it applies to any private sales, not just affordable housing schemes.

Hagar · 17-05-2006 01:12PM

Does anyone remember what date [Strike]Morningstar[/strike] Freelancer was sitebanned?
There is an amazing similarity of style wth FillSpectre.

/Edit wrong name sorry.

Archeron · 17-05-2006 01:18PM

eoin_s wrote:

That is the point I was trying to determine - the OP seems to think that it applies to any private sales, not just affordable housing schemes.

Hi,
the article I read did say that this would include, in some cases, the private sale of second hand homes as well. I've been scouring the web for more details on this, but apart from the PD person commenting on it, I cant find anything else referencing it.

FillSpectre · 17-05-2006 01:23PM

eoin_s wrote:

That is the point I was trying to determine - the OP seems to think that it applies to any private sales, not just affordable housing schemes.

I think that is where some people got it wrong. THe OP got it wrong from what was posted up. It was letter by a politician to the paper as far as I could figure.

Hagar

I now know what you were saying in the other thread when you said "morningstar". I am a not morningstar who ever that is. Can't the mods check to be sure. I am banned from the legal forum here though becasue I back chatted to a mod and I am not the right "calibre" apparently.:rolleyes:

FillSpectre · 17-05-2006 01:25PM

Archeron wrote:

Hi,
the article I read did say that this would include, in some cases, the private sale of second hand homes as well. I've been scouring the web for more details on this, but apart from the PD person commenting on it, I cant find anything else referencing it.

I already mentioned how selling council housing can have conditions even after the council no longer own it. Very old and common practice

Hagar · 17-05-2006 01:25PM

I have edited my post. I was in error. I got two posters' name mixed up. I should have said Freelancer.
Does that ring any bells?

sandyg · 17-05-2006 01:32PM

Last year i was proposing in buying a site in louth. It stated "local needs apply". I lived in the area for over 10 years. When i went to Louth co co to see what the story was on building a house i was informed that I had to get three letters from Priest, Local Garda, School stating that i resided in the area for the ten years. I was not allowed to own a house. I was only allowed apply for planning once i was rented and had proof that i was renting
They also told me there and then what type of house i was allowed build even down to the brick on the front.
Whole system is a joke.

Gurgle · 17-05-2006 01:54PM

FillSpectre wrote:

I don't need to explain it because it isn't happening why do you think it is?

Current situation:
Site for sale subject to planning permission.
I will never get planning permission in Meath.
Meath person gets planning permission.
Meath person builds house.
Meath person sells house.
Meath person makes obscene profit.

Do you want me draw you a picture?
You can colour it in yourself.

FillSpectre · 17-05-2006 02:10PM

Gurgle wrote:

Current situation:
Site for sale subject to planning permission.
I will never get planning permission in Meath.

Why not? This is only on some lands and the other conditioning is a need to have a house in the local area.

Gurgle wrote:

Meath person gets planning permission.
Meath person builds house.
Meath person sells house.
Meath person makes obscene profit.
Do you want me draw you a picture?
You can colour it in yourself.

That is not the current situation. Planning on site is conditional on local residency there is a claw back on sales of such property sales. Plus as it is not easy and you can only do it once people don't do it. Why do you think they are doing this? Please feel free to draw me an accurate picture so far you just keep making up stories and barely communicating your points.

So far you claimed it was illegal and now everybody is making loads of money duping non-locals.

I think the people who go through the various hoops to build a house are not planning to sell but live there. Why are you so sure they are doing otherwise?

Boggle · 17-05-2006 02:45PM

Does anyone remember what date Morningstar Freelancer was sitebanned?

What was he banned for?? Fillspectre has similar debating/lecturing styles though...

Last year i was proposing in buying a site in louth. It stated "local needs apply". I lived in the area for over 10 years. When i went to Louth co co to see what the story was on building a house i was informed that I had to get three letters from Priest, Local Garda, School stating that i resided in the area for the ten years. I was not allowed to own a house. I was only allowed apply for planning once i was rented and had proof that i was renting
They also told me there and then what type of house i was allowed build even down to the brick on the front.
Whole system is a joke.

Couldn't agree with you more Sandyg about the system being completely wrong.
Was it you couldn't buy a house or could you not buy a site with a view to building??

Hagar · 17-05-2006 02:49PM

Boggle wrote:

What was he banned for?? Fillspectre has similar debating/lecturing styles though...

Oddly enough banned for re-regging after a previous site-ban.

sandyg · 17-05-2006 02:53PM

At present i just refers to anyone buying a site. There are more and more "Local Needs need only apply" type for sale signs going up everywhere. Id say its not long before they try and do somthing about buying a house as well.

Hagar · 17-05-2006 03:03PM

I'd pay good money to see a non-local homeless, disabled, black, lesbian, single mother contest this type of discrimination in a court of law. I wonder would she get her house/planning permission?

FillSpectre · 17-05-2006 03:13PM

Boggle wrote:

What was he banned for?? Fillspectre has similar debating/lecturing styles though...

Well I am not him. What has he posted that is worth reading?

Hagar there were attempts to challenge such rules and the EU courts upheld the councils' rights. As I already mentioned this is not discrimination but local services for locals.

Hagar · 17-05-2006 03:32PM

Nobody is questioning the goals of a council in striving to provide social/affordable housing within its area for people from its area. That's a given all round I would think.

The point that some people are making, myself included, is that as an Irish citizen I should have the same rights as anyone else to buy private property anywhere within Ireland that I choose and live there. A Meath person, Dublin person or whoever from where-ever should not have any extra rights just because they have a historical connection, a accident of birth actually, with a locality.

The point you seem to be making is that several local councils have enacted bye-laws restricting these rights and because of this its ok to take these rights from people. Then we are in the "the law is the law" scenario so it shouldn't be challenged.

Many laws that have found their way onto the statute books have later been repealed or amended because they were found to be flawed in some manner. In many cases flawed laws stay on the books because nobody has the money to go up against lawmakers who are funded from the bottomless pockets of the taxpayer. The taxpayer who the law is actually descriminating against. Very few people can afford to risk bankruptcy proving that a local council weren't over zealous in doing their jobs.

dermot_sheehan · 17-05-2006 03:36PM

The only control I can see councils having on people moving to the area is the granting of planning permission. Of course refusing to grant permission to someone simply because he is not local is ultra vires the planning and development act 2000, s. 34 of which states the only things planning authorities can look at when considering applications http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/ZZA30Y2000S34.html

Of course councils I assume are hoping no one is willing to go to bord pleanala or seek judicial review of the decision. The problem is they could quite easily refuse permission purportly on other grounds (e.g. one off housing is contrary to the county development plan and contrary to the proper planning of the area) but make exceptions for "locals". Unless someone challenges these exceptions made, by filling an appeal, they effectively can contravene their own development plan in favour of locals.

Gurgle · 17-05-2006 04:01PM

FillSpectre wrote:

I think the people who go through the various hoops to build a house are not planning to sell but live there. Why are you so sure they are doing otherwise?

Observation.
Field -> Building site -> House -> 'For Sale' sign
:rolleyes:

Don't bother quoting or replying any more, you're on my ignore list.
Actually you are my ignore list.

FillSpectre · 17-05-2006 04:22PM

Gurgle wrote:

Observation.
Field -> Building site -> House -> 'For Sale' sign
:rolleyes:

Don't bother quoting or replying any more, you're on my ignore list.
Actually you are my ignore list.

Grand so thanks for making it so clear that you have no idea what you are talking about and can't even argue your case.

How you know the conditions of each planning applied for is really quite amazing. You appear to be one of those people who sees stuff then makes up a story to what happened rather than facts.

Hagar wrote:

The point that some people are making, myself included, is that as an Irish citizen I should have the same rights as anyone else to buy private property anywhere within Ireland that I choose and live there.

The point I am making is you do have the same rights and conditions you can match apply to all equally. If you live in Meath for 2 years you can also apply for hosuing, planning etc... Cities and high density areas do not have these conditions due to their nature. There is housing only for locals around Dublin so it is no different.

I understand you want to buy what you want when you want but we don't live anywhere like that. There are conditions on most things.

THe most important fact is there is no place where you are restricted from buying a private house. If there is please let us look at that.

dermot_sheehan · 17-05-2006 04:47PM

FillSpectre wrote:

THe most important fact is there is no place where you are restricted from buying a private house. If there is please let us look at that.

The most important thing I think is that meath co. co. would be abusing it's power granted by the oireachtas under the planning and development act. It would be outside the scope of it's power to require planning permission, to refuse it on the basis of lack of residency.

Leaving aside the issue of misuing a statutory power however, it can also be argued it would be infringing the equality guarantee in art. 40 of the constitution. In the Blasket Islands Case the Supreme Court held that legislative classification based on pedigree, outside the application of succession laws, had no place in a democratic society. By giving planning permission to locals or descendents of locals, planning authorities in addition to abusing their planning powers, are acting contrary to the constitutional principle.

Hagar · 17-05-2006 07:37PM

FillSpectre wrote:

Grand so thanks for making it so clear that you have no idea what you are talking about and can't even argue your case.

That's exactly what Mycroft/Freelancer used to say when people got so fed up trying to get through to him that they gave up and put him on their ignore list. Uncanny really.

FillSpectre wrote:

There is housing only for locals around Dublin so it is no different.

Other than social/affordable housing? I'd like to hear more about this. Please do give some more details. I've never heard of this anywhere in Dublin.

FillSpectre wrote:

I understand you want to buy what you want when you want but we don't live anywhere like that.

Yes I do, and yes I did when I lived in Ireland. The fact that you are prepared to roll over in the face of petty bueaucracy doesn't mean everyone else is, as this thread clearly shows.

FillSpectre wrote:

THe most important fact is there is no place where you are restricted from buying a private house

That's your view of what's the most important. What's important to me is equality and fair play for all.

"No outsiders" to buy houses in Meath

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