Intoxicated in a public place

popebenny16 · 16-05-2006 02:47PM

Ok, first I am glad that you got a solicitor so you can get the best representation in this. Also, no-one can thhink I'm trying to talk you into getting one and as you have one I'm not going to make any specific comments about your case.

Anyway...... The public order act is one of the most dractonian pieces of legislation ever to have been enacted in this state. When you put into statute that a guards resonable opinion is a barometer for what is or is not an offence under the act you are simple asking for three-stripe wannabees going out and making a rep for themselves.

Sadly, there are plenty of judges who will simply listen to a guard no matter what. That's what appeals are for.

Excpetion: I have seen one judge in particular who delights in telling guards after they have given their evidence that they have not demonstrated any public order offence. EG I saw one lad in court on a POA for sitting on a wall. That was it. Visiting judge (lucky lad) threw it out. However, the guards knew, I knew and the lad knew that the regular judge would have convicted him.

There's a lesson there. No matter how correct you feel at the time, if you have drink on you, and Sherrif Beauford T. Redneck starts ordering you around - do what he says. Chances are it'll cost you a Circuit Appeal to correct everything. Sorry I'm cynical, but there you are.

Eru · 16-05-2006 05:42PM

I would hate to see what this country would look like on a Saturday night without the Public order Act 1994.

Basically Pope what your saying is you think its OK to threaten, insult and/or abuse people? When found doing these things you think its Ok to refuse to give a Garda your name and/or tell them to go **** themselves?

I do however fail to see how sitting on a wall is a crime unless the owner had/was intimidated in some way.

Bond,
Your entitled to legal aid no matter how small the charge. Its one of the most basic rights within the system.

popebenny16 · 16-05-2006 05:46PM

Nope, what I'm saying is that if people who have drink on them did the simple thing - calm down, take one deep breath and take aone sobering moment - a lot of public order offences would never be committed.

If you do commit them - goodbye!

popebenny16 · 16-05-2006 05:47PM

Nope, what I'm saying is that if people who have drink on them did the simple thing - calm down, take one deep breath and take aone sobering moment - a lot of public order offences would never be committed.

If you do commit them - goodbye!

muffler · 16-05-2006 06:04PM

I dont think the last couple of posts are offering much advice to corkman9 with his problem

Eru · 16-05-2006 06:31PM

muffler wrote:

I dont think the last couple of posts are offering much advice to corkman9 with his problem

We arent supposed to offer legal advice.

Our man in Havana · 16-05-2006 07:19PM

Karlitosway1978 wrote:

Bond,
Your entitled to legal aid no matter how small the charge. Its one of the most basic rights within the system.

I know that they won't give legal aid for motoring offences.

popebenny16 · 17-05-2006 12:02AM

Bond,
Your entitled to legal aid no matter how small the charge. Its one of the most basic rights within the system.

Wrong. Under the Criminal Legal Aid scheme you are entitled to legal aid for criminal matters if you have insufficient means to employ a Solicitor. You have to prove this, usualy, by showing that you are on Social Welfare. It will not apply to motoring offences with the exception of Dangerous Driving Causing Death as they are not catergorised as criminal offences.

The Legal Aid Board provides subsidised representation in Family Law and Immigration issues however you must undergo a means teat and you will have to pay something, it's a sliding scale of contribution.

Lastly the is the AG's scheme, which is designed to assist Judicial Reviews/Constitutional issues and also can be applied for in Cases Stated.

That's it.

Our man in Havana · 17-05-2006 12:37AM

I thought that legal aid was automatically granted in "case stated" situations?

popebenny16 · 17-05-2006 01:22PM

Usually you already have the legal aid if you meet the means test. You can state a case in a civil case as well as a criminal one. You get the AG's scheme for cases stated, which is a form of legal aid but not on a statutory basis and you must ask for it at the earliest opportuinity.

eirebhoy · 17-05-2006 05:50PM

Bond-007 wrote:

I thought that legal aid was automatically granted in "case stated" situations?

In Dublin, if you are charged with something similar to corkman9 then you'll most likely have to appear at court 46. A very small percentage of people in that court have to pay for a solicitor.

Also, there's just no way that you'll get a criminal record for drunk and disorderly if you have no previous convictions. What may happen is if you don't qualify for legal aid but didn't get a solicitor, the judge will increase the amount of the fine by a couple of hundred.

corkman9 · 03-06-2006 02:20PM

Well, the day has come and gone. Had a solicitor on the day and the offense of not giving name/address to Garda was struck out due to an error with Summons. Pleaded guilty of being intoxicated. 200 Euro to the Garda Benevolent Fund and Probation of Offender's Act was the end result.

My solicitor reckoned if I had turned up on the day and told the truth but not been prepared with mitigating factors, then a big chance would of ended up with criminal record due to current climate about these types of offenses. Apologising properly to the Guard involved made a difference as well as contract of employment stating I needed to travel and character references ready for the judge. A lesson definitely learned and very glad that on the night itself or in the court didn't end up worse. My view after the whole thing is to get a solicitor in this type of situation if you have a lot to lose, just in case.

Many thanks for all the opinion offered in the thread.

Our man in Havana · 03-06-2006 02:29PM

How much did the solicitor set you back?

muffler · 03-06-2006 02:29PM

corkman9 wrote:

Well, the day has come and gone. Had a solicitor on the day and the offense of not giving name/address to Garda was struck out due to an error with Summons. Pleaded guilty of being intoxicated. 200 Euro to the Garda Benevolent Fund and Probation of Offender's Act was the end result.

My solicitor reckoned if I had turned up on the day and told the truth but not been prepared with mitigating factors, then a big chance would of ended up with criminal record due to current climate about these types of offenses. Apologising properly to the Guard involved made a difference as well as contract of employment stating I needed to travel and character references ready for the judge. A lesson definitely learned and very glad that on the night itself or in the court didn't end up worse. My view after the whole thing is to get a solicitor in this type of situation if you have a lot to lose, just in case.

Many thanks for all the opinion offered in the thread.

Delighted to hear that you "got off" so to speak. I think most people here did advise about the solicitor and the apology so basically everything went as we thought it would.
Now, take the pledge

corkman9 · 03-06-2006 02:40PM

It was this thread that helped me decide to get one just in case when I was unsure of which way to go, total cost for solicitor was 440 euro.

hullaballoo · 03-06-2006 08:30PM

I'm not sure what it is I should be saying...congratulations is too strong a word. If I was able to spell out the sound of me sucking air through my teeth sharply, that's what I would say.

Eru · 03-06-2006 11:13PM

200 into the 'just in case karlitosway gets a chronic gambling and alcohol addiction fund' very much appreciated.:D

Personally while I appreciate the judges that give to the Garda fund I would rather see fines paid into the ISPCC and other childrens charities as they are always in need of cash and most Gardai have a standing order to the fund anyway.

Still, its not the sentence that counts but the lesson you learnt.

DublinWriter · 04-06-2006 07:09PM

corkman9 wrote:

My solicitor reckoned if I had turned up on the day and told the truth but not been prepared with mitigating factors, then a big chance would of ended up with criminal record due to current climate about these types of offenses.

I'm glad you took most of our advice on here about getting a solicitor.

You sound like a normally decent human being, we're all allowed a couple of mistakes.

If you do find yourself 'up before the beak' in this country, and your reputation is at steak, hire as much legal muscle as you can.

Case in point being Tim Allen, who turned up to his Cork District Court hearing with a solicitor, junior counsel, senior counsel and a P.R. agent. He received a suspended sentance for a posession of child pornography and slept in his bed that night.

In the same week in a District Court in Dublin, a man representing himself on the charge of throwing a cigarette butt out of the window of his car (he contested garda evidence and was appealing) received a two-week jail sentance in Mountjoy prison for his self-defense efforts.

Our man in Havana · 04-06-2006 07:38PM

DublinWriter wrote:

In the same week in a District Court in Dublin, a man representing himself on the charge of throwing a cigarette butt out of the window of his car (he contested garda evidence and was appealing) received a two-week jail sentance in Mountjoy prison for his self-defense efforts.

I assume he posted bail for a circuit court appeal?

I doubt he had any knowledge of the law or legal procedures.

patbundy · 04-06-2006 11:11PM

DublinWriter wrote:

I'm glad you took most of our advice on here about getting a solicitor.

You sound like a normally decent human being, we're all allowed a couple of mistakes.

If you do find yourself 'up before the beak' in this country, and your reputation is at steak, hire as much legal muscle as you can.

Case in point being Tim Allen, who turned up to his Cork District Court hearing with a solicitor, junior counsel, senior counsel and a P.R. agent. He received a suspended sentance for a posession of child pornography and slept in his bed that night.

In the same week in a District Court in Dublin, a man representing himself on the charge of throwing a cigarette butt out of the window of his car (he contested garda evidence and was appealing) received a two-week jail sentance in Mountjoy prison for his self-defense efforts.

that case about tim allen still makes me sick,it proves if you have money you get away with it

Esel · 05-06-2006 02:12AM

patbundy wrote:

that case about tim allen still makes me sick,it proves if you have money you get away with it

So, what else is new? :rolleyes:

alligatorncroc · 17-10-2024 02:33PM

Is there actually any defense ti intoxication in a public place or is it an undefendable crime which means it it's unconstitutional I would imagine...for example

If you are in that public place because you had no choice ?

Jim_Hodge · 17-10-2024 08:47PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122729577#Comment_122729577

That's gibberish.

And the thread is 18 years old FFS!

Victor · 17-10-2024 10:36PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/122729577#Comment_122729577

If you are being charged with this, then you need to at least speak to a solicitor. Note that Garda time isn't unlimited and they tend to deal with the people who are a threat to themselves or others. If you have been charged, it is likely that a sober garda has assessed drunken you to be a threat. Your presumed drunken state prevents you from having clear recollection.

There are defences to a charge of public intoxication, e.g. if you weren't intoxicated (this will need strong evidence), if you weren't voluntarily intoxicated (someone poisoned you, inadvertently drinking too much wouldn't cut it), that it wasn't a public place (you were at home drinking when the Garda broke down your front door) or you weren't in a public place voluntarily (you were having a few drinks at home when someone petrol-bombed your house and you ran out of the burning house). However, those are rather extreme circumstances that rarely occur. Otherwise, there may be some medical conditions that can be mistaken for intoxication, but these are vanishingly rare. There may be other defences.

Intoxicated in a public place

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