The begrudgery of the Irish

Saskia · 02-05-2006 03:46PM #1

Im seething here and need to vent before I end up pouring coffee over a couple of workmates PCs.

Ive just gotten a hard fought promotion for which Ive sacrificed family and BF time and put in 14 hour days a few days a week in work and taking some work home with me. That makes me sound like a bleeding heart but I wanted to put some facts forward. The reaction to the recent promotion by workmates and even family members has made me think that there's something very wrong with this country when it comes to "getting on" and "moving up" (ok Im not keen on that last term of phrase either) on the work and social ladder.

I wont go into any more details as Im sure at least one other here reads Boards but I want to know this ;

why isnt there some sort of study done on us as a nation to figure this out once and for all?

I think the big multi-nationals deserve this information before they set up base here. They'll be setting up in a country where we're a nation of begrudging f*cks. Its not a generalisation, Ive worked in the same occupation in 5 different countries.

Can anyone put this down to anything from down through the years? We were oppressed for years and then are insecure when we get something good?

If not, then what?!

Cos its by far our most disgusting trait.

02-05-2006 03:53PM

Saskia wrote:

Cos its by fair our most disgusting trait.

You are kidding yourself if you think that is purely an Irish trait.

Ag marbh · 02-05-2006 03:54PM

Well done :rolleyes:

Ruu_Old · 02-05-2006 03:57PM

Yeah its not just an Irish trait, open your eyes.

Saskia · 02-05-2006 04:04PM

I never said it was purely an Irish trait, I said it was our worst one and much more noticeable than, say, the States where you are encouraged to better yourself.

Mexicola · 02-05-2006 04:14PM

Tell us more about the begrudery Saskia - was it the usual crap like 'She probably soaked corks to get to the top?" etc etc... Was it more from men or from women??

02-05-2006 04:20PM

Saskia wrote:

we're a nation of begrudging f*cks.

So you make sweeping generalisations about the nation based on one experience you have had. You think someone should have 'some sort of study' done on this for some obscure reason. Maybe they should try and figure out what percentage of the Irishman's body is nasty and what is good

Hmmmm, yes indeed...

Ruu_Old · 02-05-2006 04:22PM

Hmm Ive lived in the US for the last year and I havent seen anything different to what you have said, just what I have seen anyway.

Degsy · 02-05-2006 04:32PM

I'm sure its just as common everywhere else..you'll see an element of begrudgery in almost all sit coms,movies,plays,songs..you name it.I think where irish begrudgery is pre-eminent is that it extends to almost everything and is manifested in quite a sneaky,underhanded way.A little like the irish trait of being very bad complainers..we'll bitch and moan about a bad meal but when the waiter asks was everything okay we'll say "yes,couldnt be better"!

simu · 02-05-2006 04:35PM

Well, what exactly did people do to you? How did they react?

People usually begrudge those a few steps removed from them, not their own family or friends, I find. (unless there's been a falling out for some other reason).

pyramuid man · 02-05-2006 04:41PM

Why does it matter what everyone else thinks?
You worked hard and you got the rewards. If you are happy the that should be all that matters. Not what everyone else thinks.

tracert · 02-05-2006 05:33PM

The multinationals care. Talk to them.

darkman2 · 02-05-2006 05:41PM

Saskia wrote:

Im seething here and need to vent before I end up pouring coffee over a couple of workmates PCs.

Ive just gotten a hard fought promotion for which Ive sacrificed family and BF time and put in 14 hour days a few days a week in work and taking some work home with me. That makes me sound like a bleeding heart but I wanted to put some facts forward. The reaction to the recent promotion by workmates and even family members has made me think that there's something very wrong with this country when it comes to "getting on" and "moving up" (ok Im not keen on that last term of phrase either) on the work and social ladder.

I wont go into any more details as Im sure at least one other here reads Boards but I want to know this ;

why isnt there some sort of study done on us as a nation to figure this out once and for all?

I think the big multi-nationals deserve this information before they set up base here. They'll be setting up in a country where we're a nation of begrudging f*cks. Its not a generalisation, Ive worked in the same occupation in 5 different countries.

Can anyone put this down to anything from down through the years? We were oppressed for years and then are insecure when we get something good?

If not, then what?!

Cos its by far our most disgusting trait.

I agree with you. Why do you think SF get votes at all. PPL claiming the celtic tiger dosnt exist are the ppl on the dole who think life owes them something. Dont know the meanoing of work. Begrudgers through and through. In fairness it was worse in the 80s and its nowhere near as bad now but its still a problem.

Saskia · 02-05-2006 07:27PM

Must be just you and me been paranoid then Darkman?

There is something wrong with us as a nation and I want to know where people thinks it stems from.

darkman2 · 02-05-2006 08:12PM

Saskia wrote:

Must be just you and me been paranoid then Darkman?

There is something wrong with us as a nation and I want to know where people thinks it stems from.

Simply because until recently we were a very poor country and that breeds begrudgery. I think though it is getting better but only slowly:rolleyes:

Savman · 02-05-2006 08:51PM

darkman2 wrote:

PPL claiming the celtic tiger dosnt exist are the ppl on the dole who think life owes them something. Dont know the meanoing of work. Begrudgers through and through.

Tripe of the highest order. Many dole receivers are more than willing to work and work hard, to say "begrudgers are all on the dole" is stoopid. What's worse, a lazy fooker on the dole or a lazy fooker in your job getting paid good money for doing a half arsed job? Both spongers in the eyes of society.

There are also a lot of people who through no circumstances of their own lost their employment and have every right to feel hard done by.

darkman2 · 02-05-2006 08:55PM

Savman wrote:

Tripe of the highest order. Many dole receivers are more than willing to work and work hard, to say "begrudgers are all on the dole" is stoopid. What's worse, a lazy fooker on the dole or a lazy fooker in your job getting paid good money for doing a half arsed job? Both spongers in the eyes of society.

There are also a lot of people who through no circumstances of their own lost their employment and have every right to feel hard done by.

'Alot of ppl who lost employment'. EH we have 'full' employment. There are jobs everywhere for gods sake. Or should we go back to the 'good aul days' of the 80s?

Also what do you mean 'your job'. You dont know where or what I do.

skyhighflyer · 02-05-2006 09:03PM

Saskia you are bang on. Over here, if you are successful, drive a nice car, and have a good lifestyle people begrudge you it, despite the fact that you may have worked your ass off to get where you are today. People won't compliment people on their success, rather they think "What's this guy trying to prove".

As you say, in the US things are very different. Successful people are seen rather as people to aspire to rather than people to hate.

kittex · 02-05-2006 09:08PM

And ex of mine dumped me the day I got a promotion as he said he couldn't deal with me making more than him.

People in Hollywood and the music industry in the States, moan they are raised only to be torn down by the begrudgers there.

Yesterday I had a long chat with a friend in Glasgow who is suffering the same experience. None of her friends have their own homes, as they spend all their money on partying, so she is being given the 'tall poppy' treatment.

I've heard a work colleague of mine complain her Romanian husband is being treated differently by his family since he got a fairly impressive job.

It is small minded to think this is a uniquely Irish problem. Human beings do not like other people doing well if they aren't doing well. It reminds them of their own failures.

slipss · 02-05-2006 09:33PM

Its just ridiculas to try to make out that begrudgery is just an Irish trait or that its any worse in Ireland than anywhere else in the world, its not an Irish trait its a human trait( in some people not all). You just have to look at the way people reacted to Manchester United in England in the late 90's when they were winning everything or how people in the USA talk about Bill Gates, people in general just don't like to see other people doing better than they are, thats it. But if you find that absalutley everybody you know is reacting in a begrudging way to you, even your own family maybe the problem could be with yourself and not everybody else, congrats on the promotion btw.

AngryAnderson · 02-05-2006 09:36PM

Er, so what? If you're friends become nasty and begrudging because you're doing well, they're not your friends. If your family are giving you a hard time, maybe your recent success has instilled some airs and graces that you didn't have before. Maybe you have a persecution complex.

ArphaRima · 03-05-2006 06:34AM

In my experience Irish people are quite different to Americans In exactly that way. In America a typical poor man's reaction to a person driving a porsche is "Man I'd love to be like him some day". In Ireland its more like "I'd love to kill that man some day"..
I think Irish people think all success is ill-got or undeserved.

14 hour days a few days a week

Perhaps however your workmates may have a minor point. Were you working uncontracted hours (ie unpaid) or on overtime? A colleague who did not wish to sacrifice his/her time off for unpaid work may feel betrayed by the system.

pleba · 03-05-2006 07:08AM

this reminds of a 'story' that Bono has told....(probably quite a bit!)

".........but it's like, in America, you look up at the house on
the hill, the mansion on the hill and say, 'One day I'm--that--that could be me.' In Ireland, they look up at the mansion on the hill and go, 'One day I'm gonna get that bastard'........"

Sleepy · 03-05-2006 08:34AM

I dunno, I'll begrudge someone's success if I don't rate them as being any good at the job. I'll admire it if it's someone I know to be capable. Could your co-workers possibly think they're better at the job than you because they could fit the same work into a 9 to 5 without the need for all that over-time?

Dyr · 03-05-2006 09:11AM

pleba wrote:

this reminds of a 'story' that Bono has told....(probably quite a bit!)

".........but it's like, in America, you look up at the house on
the hill, the mansion on the hill and say, 'One day I'm--that--that could be me.' In Ireland, they look up at the mansion on the hill and go, 'One day I'm gonna get that bastard'........"

Sadly the f****r is still walking around in one piece so this cant be true

luckat · 03-05-2006 09:14AM

Yeah, Saskia, you're quite right. This is an unattractive trait, and we have to discuss it and change it.

Used to be that Irish people had no money, but were known worldwide for gracious and graceful manners - travel writers through the centuries commented on how people who scarcely had the rags to stand up in would escort them into a mud cabin and treat them to everything they had.

One theory on the reason was that with the annexation of Irish land from the 16th century on, the aristocracy had become peasants, so the beautiful manners came from an aristocratic famimly in the first place. Another is that the tradition held within the language included stringent rules on correct behaviour with others.

We seem to have done a direct trade; now we have plenty of money but no manners.

And what's happened to you is really a failure of grace and manners and composure. Even if someone feels envy at another's good luck, proper training in courtesy, and its accustomed use, should allow them to smile and congratulate the lucky person.

And by the same token, hearty congratulations on your well-deserved promotion. Go mairfidh tú is go gcaithfidh tú é!

OMcGovern · 03-05-2006 09:22AM

To the OP:

I suspect that part of the problem is that you didn't get all the attention and praise you expected....

How would you define your problem.
Was it
a) a number of people made negative comments or
b) little or no people made positive comments

If it's (b), then you're throwing a tantrum because you want attention.
If it's (a), then maybe a number of other people have worked just as hard as you, and rightly believe they deserved the promotion just as much.

If the promotion was properly handled by the management, then the position should've been advertised openly, applications taken in, and everyone has a chance to put their case forward in an interview. But if the promotion was done in secret, behind closed doors, then others have a right to complain about the promotion policy. Although that should be directed against the management more than yourself.

regards,
Owen

Spalk0 · 03-05-2006 09:36AM

fluffer wrote:

In America a typical poor man's reaction to a person driving a porsche is "Man I'd love to be like him some day". In Ireland its more like "I'd love to kill that man some day"..

Thats a bit of Generalistic rubbish if you ask me....

Yes there are some people that begrudge others for doing well.But that is a select few and a minority if you ask me, and i bet its the same pretty much in any other country.
I certainly dont think im gonna kill someone or have any dislike for them because they have a nice porsche ffs!All id think is 'Damn, id love that car....'
Ive an uncle who is now a millionaire and pretty much has a new flash car every time i see him.So the typical Irish reaction should be that of begrudging him?.......no no no
He worked very very hard for years and is now reaping the benifits.Fair play to him he deserves every penny.
Begrudgery stems a lot from jealousy and thats a nasty business to dwell on.

FillSpectre · 03-05-2006 09:36AM

I will say I do resent certain work colleges for how they do their jobs. The do things like work 14 hour days always take on more work than they can do in normal working hours etc... Yes they get promotions and are entiled to them but then they think everybody should work like them. I friends and family that is more important and I get paid to work for a certain amount of time not to live for the company. If you have a promoted boss going on about how they expect more and they did it you resent them. It is not begrudgery yet that is what some bosses think it is.
Is it wrong to begrudy sombody for making you work harder because they want to sacrfice their life for work?

I think the OP might not be loking at the issue from any other point of view than their own. Working a huge amount of hours in order to be promoted putting pressure on others or to compete with them is not admirable so will warrant other reactions.

alienhead · 03-05-2006 10:10AM

i hear ye.

rater than going to college, i worked and did part time courses.

by my early 20's i was working for a v reputable companay earing a v good wage.

my mates at the time werre v begrudging.

alot of irish people are like this.

i guess when you get on in life, it just highlights their own inadequacies.

fuzzywiggle · 03-05-2006 10:41AM

I'm not going to say that all irish people are begrudgers but I do think that just people in general are, regardless of thier nationality. IMO a lot of people don't like to see anyone else ahead of them, don't like to see other people achieving success in what ever area of their lives. I think they're just low minded and I pay no attention to people like that, neither should you OP. Well done on the promotion and more luck to you!

The begrudgery of the Irish

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