Lesbian Chat room??

Blackgrape · 22-04-2006 09:00PM #1

Hi there folks. I'm just looking for some info for a liesbian friend. She is new to the internet and looking for websites where she can chat to othe lesbians online. Preferably an Irish site as she hope to make new friends and meet up with some new people. Thanks folks.

damien · 22-04-2006 09:03PM

www.linc.ie

Sapphic Ireland

Boston · 22-04-2006 10:45PM

SapphicIreland.com is a woman-only forum

typical really, kinda sums up previous comments about devision, and biggotry in the community. Make sure you're friend knows they're a bunch of men hater's.

Stark · 23-04-2006 11:17AM

Having a membership restriction doesn't necessarily imply division, bigotry, intolerance or whatever. Men/women only "spaces" can often be normal and healthy.

I do agree with you though that the attitude of hating men shown by many of the members on these forums is not on.

Cake Fiend · 23-04-2006 11:21AM

God forbid they'd have a women-only lesbian site, they're clearly discriminating against all the male lesbians out there :rolleyes:

Boston · 23-04-2006 11:51AM

Sico wrote:

God forbid they'd have a women-only lesbian site, they're clearly discriminating against all the male lesbians out there :rolleyes:

We don't have a gay only forum do we? Call it acceptable discrimination, but don't pretend it's not discriminating against men. They don't seem to mind straight women nor bi-sexuals , so obviously it's not lesbians only, It's just men that are banned. Stark, I have little doubt that what ever attitude came up with such a ban, was rooted it bitter divison and biggotry. I've been reading some posts on that forum, and I find it funny they moan about women being excluded from male dominated LGBT campaigns, and being under represented. Yet, here they are in a female dominated environment excluding males, pot-kettle-black.

There's so much missunderstanding out there surrounding female sexuality, that i just can help but feel that such sites, events, societies are very unhealty. By all means make a site that lesbian centric, nobody said oyu had to be all things to all people, but hiding it away under closed doors and forum bans?

Anyway this is all very off-topic.

damien · 23-04-2006 12:16PM

Private membership is not bigotry. All this is, is a private members club. They are not a business and not a government organisation so if they don't want you in their scobby gang then tough.

Next you'll be demanding unisex changing rooms and toilets.

Boston · 23-04-2006 12:32PM

damien.m wrote:

Private membership is not bigotry.

Who would make such an emphatic statement, not I. I merely stated that from reading the forum, I've little doubt that the decision was based on bigoted attitudes.

Plenty of private members clubs where mens only clubs(I'm thinking of golfing clubs in particular), and where forced to allow women in. Why was that sexism and this not? Seriously explain it to me, because I always have a hard time keeping track of double standards.

You mentioned unisex changing rooms and toilets, do lesbians feel there sexuality is something that has to be hidden away from perving men? Fine it they do, but don't blame some poor sap for thinking all lesbians are X,Y & Z, because it's "a private thing", and certainly don't put all the blame for division and male dominancy in LGBT matter on men, if you won't play nice with the other Gays.

damien · 23-04-2006 12:50PM

LiouVille wrote:

Plenty of private members clubs where mens only clubs(I'm thinking of golfing clubs in particular), and where forced to allow women in.

Portmarnock golf club doesn't allow women and won their case in court if I recall.

do lesbians feel there sexuality is something that has to be hidden away from perving men?

Why is it that you feel that SapphicIreland needs to explain themselves to others? Where is their policy of hiding sexuality from perving men or is that just something you decided on? You're talking about double standards here yet you seem to think that a private site has to somehow allow you and other men to access their site. Guess what, lesbians can discriminate and can be discerning and it isn't a double standard. People can decide who they want in a discussion and that too is not discrimination.

Fine it they do, but don't blame some poor sap for thinking all lesbians are X,Y & Z, because it's "a private thing", and certainly don't put all the blame for division and male dominancy in LGBT matter on men, if you won't play nice with the other Gays.

So because there's a private lesbian website in existence this now means that lesbians of the world will now not be understood? Or that everyone will tar all lesbians with the same brush because of a private club? Anyone that makes such generalisations and judges a whole group by the actions of a few is ignorant to how the world works.

Double standards indeed.

LegacyUser · 23-04-2006 01:01PM

While I generally wouldn't describe women only spaces as bigoted, that particular website is a hotbed of angry lesbians.

You should go to somewhere like angrypotato.net

where is your friend based? she could talk to lesbians in real life, if she joins a college lgbt society.

Boston · 23-04-2006 02:38PM

damien.m wrote:

Portmarnock golf club doesn't allow women and won their case in court if I recall.

You provided one example. Do you deny that there are private golf clubs which which where forced to allow women in? Because thats the statement I made. The point however is that it is obviously viewed as sexism in the feminist/ lesbian world to decriminate against women, however it's fine to practice the exact same descrimination against men. Thats double standards.

Why is it that you feel that SapphicIreland needs to explain themselves to others? Where is their policy of hiding sexuality from perving men or is that just something you decided on?

It's on their sign up conditions. And I don't feel that are answerable to me, they arn't. They have every right to refuse entry to their little party on what every grounds they like. I however have a right to disagree with them. Just because someone is well within their rights to do something, doesn't mean it isn't hypocritical to do so. I thought you hated hypocrites?

You're talking about double standards here yet you seem to think that a private site has to somehow allow you and other men to access their site. Guess what, lesbians can discriminate and can be discerning and it isn't a double standard.

To demand acceptance and people to embrace your way of life, while simultaniously refusing to accept other people, that hypocricy. I've been around boards long enough to long how private sites work, and that no one has a right to access them

So because there's a private lesbian website in existence this now means that lesbians of the world will now not be understood? Or that everyone will tar all lesbians with the same brush because of a private club? Anyone that makes such generalisations and judges a whole group by the actions of a few is ignorant to how the world works.

I ask you, why isn't this forum private, why isn't it Gays only? Why are straight people allowed, even encouraged to post here? Because it promotes understanding. You talk about one forum, but the attitude of them and us is endemic, I've seen it, you've seen it. Why would a man post or read a lesbian forum? Why do straight people post and read this forum Because they wants to understand more, to be less ignorant. You critise people for being ignorant, but it no one is willing to shed some light, how will anybody learn. I freely admitt that I'm very ignorant of the issues surrounding female sexuality, but I'm interested, and have tried in the past on forums like SapphicIreland, only to be met by nothing. "Yea we see you want to understands, but you a guy, so you're just going to have to wallow in your ignorance".

You're getting hung up on them having a right to descriminate, sure they do, never said they didn't,. I'm saying it's a double standards, and contradicts allot of the claims made of their forum about equality and acceptance.

damien · 23-04-2006 03:26PM

LiouVille wrote:

You provided one example. Do you deny that there are private golf clubs which which where forced to allow women in?

I'm saying men-only golf clubs don't have to under current case law. Some may have caved-in previously or said "sure, lets have women involved" but Portmarnock challenged the law and they won. Just because some clubs caved does not mean that every club has to. However, this is taking from the point which is you are allowed to be discerning and to pick who you want to be part of your scooby gang. You can choose who to associate with. There's a no men rule in SI. Big deal.

The point however is that it is obviously viewed as sexism in the feminist/ lesbian world to decriminate against women, however it's fine to practice the exact same descrimination against men. Thats double standards.

If SI started saying that a men only forum that discusses mens issues was bigoted then maybe there's double standards. But because a forum that talks about sexism and discrimination won't allow in men, that's not a double standard.

It's on their sign up conditions. And I don't feel that are answerable to me, they arn't.

I can't find anywhere in their conditions that backs up your statement " do lesbians feel there sexuality is something that has to be hidden away from perving men?"

Where does it state that Sapphic Ireland is hiding away lesbians sexuality from perving men? Or did you just make that bit up?

Just because someone is well within their rights to do something, doesn't mean it isn't hypocritical to do so.

And it can equally mean that they are not hypocrites.

I thought you hated hypocrites?

I don't hate hypocrites, do you think I should? I don't hate women either. Should I, because you are calling some of them hypocrites?

To demand acceptance and people to embrace your way of life, while simultaniously refusing to accept other people, that hypocricy.

I think they do accept men and their way of life, they just don't have to have them on their site the same way they are not forced to have men come to their knitting parties or whatever women do behind closed doors. There's a makor difference between accepting people and that they have equal rights and allowing someone membership of a website. There's more than one meaning to a word in most cases.

I ask you, why isn't this forum private, why isn't it Gays only? Why are straight people allowed, even encouraged to post here? Because it promotes understanding .. but I'm interested, and have tried in the past on forums like SapphicIreland, only to be met by nothing.

Since when is this forum comparable with Sapphic Ireland? Since when is it Sapphic Ireland's duty to educate you about womens sexuality? I didn't realise that their site was created as some kind of public service.

This forum has a charter and one attitude, Sapphic Ireland has another. Why should one forum that deals with sexuality have the same policies as another? If you don't like it set up your own lesbian forum. There are tonnes of womens sites out there that are happy to field questions from men and to have men part of the conversation, SI isn't. Google is your friend if you want to understand women or er maybe women themselves in real life.

Suzybie · 23-04-2006 03:31PM

As the founder/administrator of SapphicIreland I don't intend to get into discussions about the existence of the board, its popularity and the need for women only space on the internet. Liouville you are doing it all for me.

We have lots of male readers and they are very welcome to read as guests. Indeed SI is the first port of call for many on queer political analysis due to the calibre of its membership and their experiences of living as lesbian women in Ireland.

I just wondered why you registered to join SI last night when you are so clear about your understanding of the rules?

Boston · 23-04-2006 04:24PM

damien.m wrote:

I'm saying men-only golf clubs don't have to under current case law. Some may have caved-in previously or said "sure, lets have women involved" but Portmarnock challenged the law and they won. Just because some clubs caved does not mean that every club has to. However, this is taking from the point which is you are allowed to be discerning and to pick who you want to be part of your scooby gang. You can choose who to associate with. There's a no men rule in SI. Big deal.

What can I say except that I accept you point, I didn't challenged it the first time you made it, and I'm not challenging it now.

If SI started saying that a men only forum that discusses mens issues was bigoted then maybe there's double standards. But because a forum that talks about sexism and discrimination won't allow in men, that's not a double standard.

Says you.

I can't find anywhere in their conditions that backs up your statement " do lesbians feel there sexuality is something that has to be hidden away from perving men?"

Where does it state that Sapphic Ireland is hiding away lesbians sexuality from perving men? Or did you just make that bit up?

I asked you the question

do lesbians feel there sexuality is something that has to be hidden away from perving men?

Thats some twisting of what I said. The reason I asked the question is because of the comparison you made.

I don't hate hypocrites, do you think I should? I don't hate women either. Should I, because you are calling some of them hypocrites?

Yes damien you should hate all women because of the view points of a minority, thats clearly what I'm saying. I'm so happy my point of view has been picked up so precisely by your keen mind.

I think they do accept men and their way of life, they just don't have to have them on their site the same way they are not forced to have men come to their knitting parties or whatever women do behind closed doors. There's a makor difference between accepting people and that they have equal rights and allowing someone membership of a website. There's more than one meaning to a word in most cases.

I think they do accept black people and their way of life, they just don't want to be on the same bus as them.

Since when is this forum comparable with Sapphic Ireland? Since when is it Sapphic Ireland's duty to educate you about womens sexuality? I didn't realise that their site was created as some kind of public service.

Why isn't this forum comparable to Sapphic Ireland? You keep on making out that I'm demanding things from them, despite the fact I've repeatedly said it's their forum, to do what they want with. It's not their dutty to educate people, but don't moan about a lack of understanding if you close the door on people and you refuse to help people understand.

This forum has a charter and one attitude, Sapphic Ireland has another. Why should one forum that deals with sexuality have the same policies as another?

Did I say that, no i didn't. But one would persum that some of the goals are the same, at least from reading their forum they do seem concerned with promoting equality,understanding and acceptance. If I'm wrong about that, then feel free to point it out to me. I'll withdraw all my comments. I understand it's not hte primary purpose of the forum.

Suzybie wrote:

As the founder/administrator of SapphicIreland I don't intend to get into discussions about the existence of the board, its popularity and the need for women only space on the internet. Liouville you are doing it all for me.

We have lots of male readers and they are very welcome to read as guests. Indeed SI is the first port of call for many on queer political analysis due to the calibre of its membership and their experiences of living as lesbian women in Ireland.

I just wondered why you registered to join SI last night when you are so clear about your understanding of the rules?

How am I making those points for you? Am I being sexist or something, could women not "deal" with my questions.

As for why I registered, I was going to ask what the actual hard and fast rules of males on the forum where, what the reasons for the rules where, are men actively hunted down and banned. Do the members see such rules as promoting awareness, or even if promoting awareness was important to the membership. Why are Straight women allowed in if the site is for Lesbian women, what the attitudes where towards Bi-sexuals on the forums... a whole multitude of questions tbh. But then i went and searched your forum and came to the conclusion I'd be told to fuk off pretty sharpest, and believe it or not, I'm actually not fond of pointless arguements.

damien · 23-04-2006 04:35PM

I think they do accept black people and their way of life, they just don't want to be on the same bus as them.

Let us use your really weak analogy: You forget who owns the bus. They do. If they don't want anyone on their bus then that's their prerogative. Black, white, tall, bald. You call them hypocrites and bigots because of who they want on their bus or who they don't want. Private bus, private property. I can't see how that's discriminatory.

Now that you failed to insinuate I'm a racist why not try anti-semitism?

Boston · 23-04-2006 04:53PM

damien.m wrote:

Let us use your really weak analogy: You forget who owns the bus. They do. If they don't want anyone on their bus then that's their prerogative. Black, white, tall, bald. You call them hypocrites and bigots because of who they want on their bus or who they don't want. Private bus, private property. I can't see how that's discriminatory.

Now that you failed to insinuate I'm a racist why not try anti-semitism?

Yes for the forth time I accept it's their bus, and they can be as discriminatory and prejudistic as they want. I've argued this point before with you. At least I'm consistent. I've a problem with pretending it's not discriminatory and prejudistic. Men aren't allowed, that's discrimination, you can agree with the reasons, you can say it's a good idea, but it is what it is. White people ran south Africa, so apatite was grand, sovereign country, they could do what they wanted.

I wasn't trying to insinuate you're a racist btw . I've seen you whale of people using the exact same "weak" analogy, I don't think you where calling them racist at the time, maybe you where. And I'm glad you finally accepted I can call people hypocrites based on who they discriminate against. Thank you.

damien · 23-04-2006 05:08PM

LiouVille wrote:

And I'm glad you finally accepted I can call people hypocrites based on who they discriminate against. Thank you.

No, you attack people and call them names because you have issues with who they are. Why do you have such issues with a womans forum? Why do you hate women?

Boston · 23-04-2006 05:20PM

Hating women is the only possible reason I could have to critise a ban on men. So all those women protesting at not being allowed membership of golf clubs, and those being unfairly treated in the work place, or being kicked out of pubs for men only nights, where men haters. I see. btw I've no problem with a women centric forum, you must have worked very hard to miss my points if you read that into my posts.

why do you read things into people's actions and posts that simply arn't there?

solas · 23-04-2006 05:34PM

I just had a glance at sapphic to see what all the fuss is about and it seems to be a genuinely nice place, decent folk in a pleasant atmosphere. Straight talking, I think its a great idea having a women only site and the proof is in the reading of it.
I fail to see what liouville is upset about, surely there are a gazillion gay male sites about the place?

Hunter S · 23-04-2006 06:26PM

I assume is says women only site, to try and disuade heterosexual men posting on the forum looking to get some hot action with some "lesbians" in the same manner most women posting on personals looking for other women usualy get a barrage of answers from heterosexual men looking to see if they fancy a bit of a change for the weekend.

Boston · 23-04-2006 06:32PM

Well the need for men only golf clubs is just as apparent then, look at portmornack, one of the best in the country. Of course the counter is, men can play golf just as well with women in the same club as without them, so why the need to segragate. The same here, fair enough and womens for is not just a good idea, it's a great idea, but why do men have to be banned. For all the speil about their right to ban people, no reason has been put forward as to why there's a need for men to be banned.

Read GirlWests post at the buttom to see the hypocricy in action. men ban women because of superiority, women ban men because of "positive action". Or here when the golf club won it's action. I'm amazed these people don't draw parallels. I suppose Damien will be along in a minute to tell me theres a huge difference between a private forum and a private club, not there isn't.

Heres where they rant about equality in politics, and quotas. So obviously men and women being equal is an issue, or Heres a topic about men closing ranks on women because they feel threatened, sound familiar?

Hunter S wrote:

I assume is says women only site, to try and disuade heterosexual men posting on the forum looking to get some hot action with some "lesbians" in the same manner most women posting on personals looking for other women usualy get a barrage of answers from heterosexual men looking to see if they fancy a bit of a change for the weekend.

I wondered that myself, thats why i registered. I appear to be banned now, so that kinda answers my question. I never posted.

crabapple · 23-04-2006 08:13PM

Actually the reason you weren't able to post, whether you wanted to or not Liouville was that your membership hadn't been validated, the reason your membership wasn't validated was because you are male and it is expressly written in the forum rules that Sapphic Ireland is a women only site.
Like any forum we request that members agree to the rules before becoming a member, the same way as I have agreed to the rules here to become a member. You don't have to like our rules, you don't have to agree with them, you don't have to become a member.
After rejecting your membership you then immediately signed up again necessitating your membership be once again rejected. It's an awful long way to go to prove that when we say women only we mean it. It seems like you are trying to flex some muscle to irritate and aggravate and cause a problem. Why? If you understand the right of women to women only space you will not attempt this level of self aggrandisement through aggravation.
Hunter S calls it right when she describes some of the crap that lesbian/bi women have to put up with in cyber land, and Solas gives an acccurate description of the atmosphere and ethos of Sapphic Ireland, and Damien, and others, obviously also have Liouville's number too.
This isn't about issues of equality - women as a discriminated against group do not have the power in society to discriminate in the ways Liouville implies, it is only those who have power over that can do that. I don't think anyone seriously believes that women have power over men. Therefore we claim women only space for security, comfort, peace, and pleasure away from having to shout to get our voices heard, and very nice it is too. The only man who would have an issue with that is one who doesn't understand equality issues, and doesn't respect women.
As for the links to posts on SI? It is beyond me to see how any of those back up anything that Liouville is saying. You have a particularly individualistic way of interpreting what you read.

Boston · 23-04-2006 08:36PM

crabapple wrote:

Actually the reason you weren't able to post, whether you wanted to or not Liouville was that your membership hadn't been validated, the reason your membership wasn't validated was because you are male and it is expressly written in the forum rules that Sapphic Ireland is a women only site.

Like any forum we request that members agree to the rules before becoming a member, the same way as I have agreed to the rules here to become a member. You don't have to like our rules, you don't have to agree with them, you don't have to become a member.
After rejecting your membership you then immediately signed up again necessitating your membership be once again rejected. It's an awful long way to go to prove that when we say women only we mean it. It seems like you are trying to flex some muscle to irritate and aggravate and cause a problem. Why? If you understand the right of women to women only space you will not attempt this level of self aggrandisement through aggravation.

I never tried to post on your forum, despite my acocunt being validated (I've the email to prove it was), I don't agree with your rules, but I have respected them. I wanted to use your search engine to see if I could better understand your site. Now that you've expressly stated that that men arn't allow even register on your site, I won't in the future. Btw I find it insulting you think the only reason I'd register is to have a go at you people.

Hunter S calls it right when she describes some of the crap that lesbian/bi women have to put up with in cyber land, and Solas gives an acccurate description of the atmosphere and ethos of Sapphic Ireland, and Damien, and others, obviously also have Liouville's number too.

You really think I'm in the market for some hot lesbian action. I outlined the reasons why I would post on your forum and what I'd ask if I was allowed. It's very unfair for you to tar me with the same brush the muppets hunter describes, then again i am a guy. btw Hunter might have my number, and Damien does.

This isn't about issues of equality - women as a discriminated against group do not have the power in society to discriminate in the ways Liouville implies, it is only those who have power over that can do that. I don't think anyone seriously believes that women have power over men. Therefore we claim women only space for security, comfort, peace, and pleasure away from having to shout to get our voices heard, and very nice it is too. The only man who would have an issue with that is one who doesn't understand equality issues, and doesn't respect women.

So minorities can't decriminate, interesting. I disagree. And quiet frankly I don't buy your "women are weak and powerless over men" line. Doesn't sound to me like you have half the respect for women I do.

As for the links to posts on SI? It is beyond me to see how any of those back up anything that Liouville is saying. You have a particularly individualistic way of interpreting what you read.

It's really clear, Two private clubs, ones a men only clubs, ones a women's one club. Ones a den of sexism and oppression, the other is a "space for security, comfort, peace, and pleasure away from having to shout to get our voices heard". Double standards. [SIZE=-1]What's in a name? That which we call a [/SIZE]Double standards [SIZE=-1]By any other word would smell as hypocritical."[/SIZE]

btw I'm not even allow to read the forum anymore. You guys really hate critism.

Annasopra · 23-04-2006 09:18PM

I have no problem with female only spaces

I started a debate about this site once but after much discussion on it changed my mind - I was originally opposed to the idea but came to the conclusion that if women wanted to organise in this way than it is their choice and prerogative

Persoanlly I like reading sapphics dicussions a lot because I find them intelligent and refreshing and it does frustrate me that I cannot contribute but I respect their rules

This is the debate I had about a year ago on this issue

http://www.gaire.com/e/f/view.asp?nav=1&parent=321073

Boston · 23-04-2006 09:24PM

Johnnymcg wrote:

I have no problem with female only spaces

I started a debate about this site once but after much discussion on it changed my mind - I was originally opposed to the idea but came to the conclusion that if women wanted to organise in this way than it is their choice and prerogative

Persoanlly I like reading sapphics dicussions a lot because I find them intelligent and refreshing and it does frustrate me that I cannot contribute but I respect their rules

This is the debate I had about a year ago on this issue

http://www.gaire.com/e/f/view.asp?nav=1&parent=321073

I think it's pretty obvious why you wouldn't be allowed. You're an intelligent male, who might challange some of their view points. And if there's one thing thats clear, it's that they don't like that. I should add that I know a few members of this forum and I'm by no means taring all members as being narrow minded embittered facist men haters, just the administration.

Hunter S · 23-04-2006 09:34PM

I think your getting a bit overzealous in your critisism Liou.

Personaly i completely understand for a need for a womens only space, just as there is a need for a gay space, a single parents space etc etc. I dont believe that groups outside should be outrightly banned from participating in these spaces, imo some intigration is needed everywhere. However in the case of a lesbian only forum i do see the reasoning behind it being confined to women for reasons i outlined above. I dont think there is any other reasons behind it and i really dont think its a rule there to opress men. I dont think men particularly were in mind when the rule was being formulated.Its there as a comfort zone for women (some admittedly who are not comfortable in the company of men others who are and who use that space in a differnt way they do other lgbt message forums.) Diferent things cater for differnt parts of our lives and everything has its particular use for a particular person.

Saphic Ireland wont be to everyones taste, but theres a world of forums out there and your sure to find one that is to yours, why take from an area which obviously provides something positive to a community?

Boston · 23-04-2006 09:48PM

That fair enough, I probably am being overzealous. I do feel there are attitude on that forum that are allowed propagate under a blanket of fear and misunderstanding, and I think that's bad for the community as a whole. Not every man who would access that forum would act the muppet, and I think the decent thing would have been for the two members that poster here to have the courage to admit that. I think I've shown allot of respect for their rules, I could have and still could, easily post on that forum but won't. I don't appreciate a genuine interest being cast aside as merely "flexing of muscle" and deliberate aggravation. If half the guys out there showed the same level of interest in women's issues, the world would be a better place.

Thats pretty much all I've left to say. I wish Saphic Ireland all the best and luck in the future, and to the O/P you should probably recommend it to your friend, despite obvious flaws it has allot to offer any gender.

damien · 23-04-2006 09:53PM

Try here.

damien · 23-04-2006 09:57PM

SapphicVille, a shadowy flight into the dangerous world of a man who does not exist. LiouVille, a young loner on a crusade to champion the cause of the innocent, the powerless, the lesbians in a world of bigots who operate above the law.

LiouVille and his talking car with sensible tyres.

Boston · 23-04-2006 10:06PM

You're just jealous, that I've my own tv show.

Annasopra · 24-04-2006 10:29AM

I should add that I know a few members of this forum and I'm by no means taring all members as being narrow minded embittered facist men haters, just the administration.

Ah now in fairness I think that's going a bit too far

To the OP try www.indigorepublic.com

Lesbian Chat room??

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