Protesters mount picket as Stardust pub opens again

fair enough, as i have said im only 25 now so wasnt familiar with the place then. The pictures of Stardust i have seen shows it having the same front door as Skellys, am i even remembering the front door to skellys correctly. I pass by the maxol everyday but cant remember the doorway into the new pub

http://www.dublinpeople.com/cms/images/stories/aug1005/feb2006/stardust1.jpg

thanks for clearing that up. I was getting a bit confuesed there for a mo

blu_sonic wrote:

I think its wrong to use te same name and to open a pub on the spot, this was the worst thing of its kind to happen here in Ireland.

They aren't but I am really confused about the name myself now. It isn't happening so no need to suggest Ireland is some stupid horrible place

blu_sonic wrote:

I would have expected a small green to be opened there as a memorial site for the familys that suffered.

THey opened a park close to most of where the victims families live and two memorial stones do you think they need more?

blu_sonic wrote:

Its not a case of moving on i hope none of us here have or wil lose a child, but imagine someone telling you "ah move on would ya" thats just callous and cold. I don't expect these familys to move on, throwing hypothetical situtations out there changes nothing.

They are out to get the owner of the club and make sure they can prevent him form making money. This is vegence disguised and they are using the media and lying about the events

blu_sonic wrote:

Remeber theres more to this than a fire, these people were treated poorly after the fire, where was their justice? this is another nail in their coffins.

What do you actually know about their bad treatment? As I said people didn't know things about fires untill after this fire and investigation. The pub was there since before the fire and afterwards and memeorials have been put up.

My blood is boiling reading this post. These people have lost loved ones. What ever way you look at it, it is insensitive to open a pub/club with the same name as the one where the original burned down and ruined so many peoples lives. Fair enough it may not be on the same sight as the original, but it is in the same business park and just because its not on the same exact site it does not stop the relatives and friends feeling anger and sadness.

This whole tragedy could have been avoided if the owners had not had the exits locked. These people feel like nobody cares that their children died,after being denied an inquiry and now this. If someone is not going to pay for this tragedy, they should at least respect the memory of the dead.

Morning Star where are you getting your information from?

I lived in Whitethorn most of my life, and my family was effected my it directly, so it's always been in our lives. My Mam grew up in Coolock and had a ticket for that night. I thank god she had to babysit. But I see the grief from her and my aunties and my mams friends, Grief is not something you can forget if your loved one died in such a tragic way and I dont believe that, people can have thier 'moment of grief' and move on just because people are sick of protests and lies. Don't tar all the protestors with the same brush.

MorningStar wrote:

THen you should know the protestors are lying and should know about the leasons learnt from the fire has saved lives world wide.

The information is public record and corruption of the truth should not be made on the lives lost for vegence.

I am sorry for any loss you have suffered but what is going on is wrong and not helping

Sorry as you edited your post. When you say directly do you mean you lost a family member?

Are you suggesting it is OK they lie now? I am sick of the lying they can protest all they like on legitimate protest but this is not legitimate

No I never said it is ok for them to lie but some people are there for real reasons, such as not wanting people to stamp all over the memories of thier loved ones, there are people there who are not spreading these lies.

I did not directly lose a family member, but my Mam lost six of her closest friends that night and my aunty and uncle were there aswell, not to mention the amount of loss they endured, I didnt intend for it to come across that I had personally lost a family member.

I do know lessons have been learned. Thats a given.

MorningStar wrote:

I don't see anybody connected to the pub is doing anything wrong but I can see plenty from the protestors.

Please tell me again what they are doing wrong

MorningStar wrote:

People living in the area haven't forgotten but have moved on most are unhappy about the protestors lies but are too polite to say.

Is this you speaking on their behalf, have you spoken to everyone in the area or are you just speculating. you sem to know what "MOST" are feeling

CoolGuy2006 wrote:

Please tell me again what they are doing wrong

THey are lying and making up stories that the media reports on. Location,planning,new pub etc... all lies

CoolGuy2006 wrote:

Is this you speaking on their behalf, have you spoken to everyone in the area or are you just speculating.

Your right I can only speak for all the people I know in the area who were not directly effected and I have spoken to, so I did a straw poll. All said people feel a great sympathy for the victims and understand what they are doing. It is also felt that the information the protestors give out is false and unnessary.

As these protestors commonly like to say they speak for the area I think I have a fair amount of understanding to speak for the area the place is in. Most of the protestor are not from the area most are from Coolock and would never come into the area to go to the pub. That is why the memorial garden is in Coolock.

Tbh, I feel you are one of these people who can not be wrong, I have accepted what you said to me, I know about the lies, But people have every right to protest for thier loved ones memories, Accept that people cant just have thier 'moment' and if this is the way the deal with thier grief, let them.

Katykaboom wrote:

Im not going into it on the internet, but the anguish that my mother and my auntie has suffered due to this fire dies actually affect my life on a daily basis so yes it does directly effect me. My uncles brother also died in the fire. So yes like is family directly affected.

Well that is not direct whether you like to think so or not. I accept it effected you but not directly.
Accidents happen, they have effects and nobody is fully to blame. Read the reports ignore the books and TV docu-dramas and find out what happened.
THese people are publicly saying they are protesting the opening of a pub on the site of the stardust with the same name as the pub had before the fire. That is simply not true and not why they are protesting. Do you not seee how lying is distorting the memory of those who died?
How much have you studied the fire? Those griving can do wrong and have.

CoolGuy2006 wrote:

firstly, im sure the media dont just take what the protesters say as fact. They must check up on all the info the protesters give them before going to print. And if they dont then they are to blame for all the wrong reports. What lies are you talking about.

Well you would be wrong, reporters often don't check facts. They also don't correct things if they feel it would effect the impact of their story or if they feel the subject warrants misinformation. They also sensationalise stories.
As the people being interviewed know they are lying and make up ways to get into the news I blame them. One of them is going for local office now. I have heard the protestors lying on the radio.
Look back and you will see I blame the media as well.

The below is taken form the irish examinar. Morning Stardust, you said that lessons have been learned but the peice below states differently






"The chairman of the Chief Fire Officer's Association, Jim Dunphy, has also warned that a disaster like the Stardust tragedy could strike here again.

Among the chief problems highlighted in 1975, 1982 and again in 2002 is the fact that control of the fire services is left to a plethora of local authorities lacking the power and consistency of a central body. With the 25th anniversary next week, the same problems remain.

SIPTU firefighters representative Tony McDonnell said there are still just seven people inspecting fire safety in Dublin.

"How many hotels, housing schemes, theatres and other venues have appeared since then? We didn't even have the Point Theatre then. You have seven people trying to cope with a massive influx of infrastructure," he said.




Bridget McDermott, who lost three of her children Marcella, 16, George, 18, and William, 22 called on Mr McDowell to listen to their calls.

"I just want him to listen to us and help us. I think they owe it to us. Everybody needs justice, especially the dead. I don't think I could go to my grave and meet Willie, Marcella and George and tell them we did not get justice.

"We just want the truth now. At the time, I left it to the tribunal (held in 1981) and I thought we would all get justice and we would all get answers, but we didn't," she said.

"I was shocked at the findings. We were just paid off. It was an insult. We were given £22,500 for our three children and expected to forget about it."

Afterwards, a doctor referred her to a day centre run by a religious order for people with mental illness.

"They put me at a sewing machine making little flowers and a psychiatrist came to me twice and asked me the same questions so I was repeating myself. I felt I was going mad. I couldn't stay."

Bridget and her husband's marriage broke down under the weight of their shared grief.

Gertrude Barrett, whose 17-year-old son Michael died, also wants questions answered.

"He was victim number 38. That's what my Michael was called a number, like an order in a fast food restaurant," she said.

Gertrude was told Michael died of smoke inhalation but she never accepted that conclusion, as he was with two others who survived relatively unscathed. The more evidence that emerged that the fire started in the roof of the building not through arson in the seating area as the tribunal concluded the more she believed Michael was trapped by the collapsing ceiling.

Elizabeth 'Lil' Buckley, who lost her 23-year-old son Jimmy in the Stardust fire, supports the campaign for a fresh inquiry.

"I'm weary and I'm too old. But that doesn't mean I've forgotten. I don't really know if we'll get any more answers this time, but I think it's worth trying. God loves a trier."

Patricia Kennedy, whose 17-year-old daughter Marie died in the fire, also wants an inquiry. Her marriage also broke down. "When I look back at the questions that should have been asked, I just want to get to the bottom of what happened. Basically we want the truth and we want justice, for someone to be made responsible, for someone to take responsibility."

The average age of the dead was 19. In all, 25 men and 23 women died, 214 were injured, 11 badly disfigured or disabled.

A 1981 tribunal chaired by Mr Justice Ronan Keane found after 122 days: "The cause of the fire is not known and may never be known. There is no evidence of an accidental origin and equally no evidence that the fire was started deliberately."

Yet, it added: "The fire was probably caused deliberately, the most likely mechanism being the slashing of some of the seats with a knife and the application of a lighted match or cigarette lighter to the exposed foam, or the ignition of newspapers on or under the seats."

There was "no evidence", yet there was a detailed and firm conclusion, which placed every young person in the Stardust that night under suspicion of arson.

The Stardust's general manager, Eamon Butterly, faced heavy criticisms in the tribunal report. He had, said Mr Justice Keane, misled Dublin Corporation about his fire safety practices, locked or otherwise obstructed exit doors, been negligent in his training and instruction of staff, and failed to co-operate in the early stages of the garda inquiry. He escaped prosecution and secured around £600,000 (€750,000) in compensation for his burnt premises.

The Stardust Relatives Committee fought for, and eventually won, £10.5 million (€13m) in awards to 823 applicants ranging from less than £1,000 (€1,250) to £200,000 (€250,000). No one received as much as the Stardust owners, however.

The Stardust campaign is being fought on two fronts, one aimed at getting inquests reopened and the other at securing a fresh tribunal of inquiry. Some families would simply like to have a death certificate and a grave to visit."