Exceeding the speed limit whilst overtaking

Trojan911 · 25-03-2006 10:29PM #1

Is it an offence to exceed the speed limit whilst overtaking?

I would be interested in your views / comments and any references or links to uphold a "No" answer... I cannot find any in the statute book but was asked the question recently.

Cheers

TJ911...

Diamondmaker · 25-03-2006 10:44PM

I was pulled for 66mph in 50 zone. Lanes were merging to 1 ahead and I was on out side lane adjacent a tightly packed inner lane. I was very close to front car. I put on the power to get into inside lane at top of queue rather than barge in to middle (as I thought the o/t would be safer)....then bang !pulled in by the boys ahead.... no sympathy.
Also I have done advanced driving and the instructor assured me that it is stilll illegal when o/t.

Thirdfox · 25-03-2006 11:50PM

Are you sure you weren't going 66mph in a 50kmph zone

? That would a big difference in speed!

As to the current law on overtaking, no idea

Diamondmaker · 26-03-2006 12:09AM

No it was 2 years ago and was on Blanch Dualler on way to Ashtown round about before DG Opel. 66mph in 50mph zone.

hullaballoo · 26-03-2006 12:19AM

OP, I'd say that any overtaking that involves travelling at a speed that is beyond the speed limit would be considered an offence. You are only supposed to overtake someone who is travelling at a very slow speed.

EireRoadUser · 26-03-2006 12:47AM

Circumstances always decifer the outcome I wreckon.
If it's pi**ing rain and your doing 53 in a 40 zone ,a guard is going to do you big time . Who is going to sit in the rain while muppets drive up too close of each other and skid so fast they are twirling like prima ballerina's.

Sangre · 26-03-2006 12:51AM

The only reason you'd need to go over the speed limit when overtaking someone is when the car ahead is doing the speed limit. So why do you have to overtake them then? Thats probably how a court will look at it.

Karoma · 26-03-2006 12:56AM

2nd attempt.let's hope this coherent&in English.

Some EU countries provide for overtaking speeds.
However, as per the Irish rules of the road:

No vehicle other than exempted vehicles (fire brigades, ambulances, Garda cars) may exceed the maximum road speed limit at any time.

If one must exceed the speed limit by a considerable amount, then chances are that they're either overtaking a car which is travelling close the speed limit or they're overtaking several cars at a time. In either case, it is dangerous. As such, you deserve what you get. Especially if it has been raining.

EireRoadUser · 26-03-2006 01:22AM

go slower

Eru · 26-03-2006 04:11AM

Bang on Karoma. Its pretty basic stuff and obvious.

Eire,
WTF???

Karoma · 26-03-2006 04:17AM

Karlitosway1978 wrote:

Eire,
WTF???

I thought it was just me. phew!

EireRoadUser · 26-03-2006 09:21AM

The worst thing a driver can do is ignore other drivers on the road.

Going exactly the speed limit all the time will not save your life ,you need to keep the eye out.

My old man has 8 penalty points for breaking the speed limit, he never goes over 60mph even on motor ways though. And he never overtakes.

Hes just the one who might pass by a speed camera doing a couple of mile an hour more than he's suppose to.

I really think sometimes the government encourage drivers to try and get away with speeding ,because they always seem to be sneaky with it's tactics in catching people. Be honest with people and they will be honest back.

Trojan911 · 26-03-2006 11:22AM

Cheers all,

I would have to go with the fact that exceeding the speed limit would constitute an offence under the RTA.

I have spoken to various Garda sources, including traffic corps and all have said "They think you can but can't find legislation / proven cases to back it up", nobody seems to know. I guess it is yet to be challenged in the courts....

TJ911...

mountainyman · 26-03-2006 03:20PM

Trojan911 wrote:

...
I would have to go with the fact that exceeding the speed limit would constitute an offence under the RTA... I guess it is yet to be challenged in the courts....

It won't be challenged successfully. YOU CANNOT LEGALLY EXCEED THE SPEED LIMIT WHILE OVERTAKING.
I am sure the judge woudn't hammer you on it.

MM

mountainyman · 26-03-2006 03:28PM

66 MPH in a 50 MPH zone is 26 KMH over the speed limit

This is understandable but how could it be legal?

MM

Eru · 26-03-2006 06:51PM

Trojan911 wrote:

Cheers all,

I would have to go with the fact that exceeding the speed limit would constitute an offence under the RTA.

I have spoken to various Garda sources, including traffic corps and all have said "They think you can but can't find legislation / proven cases to back it up", nobody seems to know. I guess it is yet to be challenged in the courts....

TJ911...

theres no challenge possible. If you need to speed to overtake then you shouldnt be overtaking.

MM,
16 KMH I presume you meant?

Hagar · 26-03-2006 06:57PM

I had look at one of the signs. It just said 60kph.
There was no small print that said "may be exceeded if overtaking".

MrPudding · 26-03-2006 09:00PM

They are installing a new speed detection system in Northern Ireland. It has two sets of cameras miles apart. Car are photographed at each end the the average speed is worked out.

Here is an interesting quote from the Irish Times article:

Chief Inspector Rosemary Leech, of the Road Policing Development department in the PSNI wrote:

the strength of the system was that it allowed someone to exceed the limit briefly, as in the case of over taking, providing their average speed remained under the limit.

The implication here seems to be that the PSNI are not overly worried with a small amount of speed when overtaking. That does seem reasonable.

Full article here: http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/motoring/2006/0222/2418148504MOT22TRAPS.html

Trojan911 · 26-03-2006 09:30PM

Hagar wrote:

I had look at one of the signs. It just said 60kph.
There was no small print that said "may be exceeded if overtaking".

Cheers Hagar,

As simple as that...... Why didn't I look, D'OH .....:p

TJ911...

Victor · 27-03-2006 01:36AM

MrPudding wrote:

They are installing a new speed detection system in Northern Ireland. It has two sets of cameras miles apart. Car are photographed at each end the the average speed is worked out.

Just another tool, one where people can't claim "oh, it was only for a moment"

Victor · 27-03-2006 02:00AM

EireRoadUser wrote:

My old man has 8 penalty points for breaking the speed limit, he never goes over 60mph even on motor ways though. And he never overtakes.

Does he also do 60mph through the centre of town? He has to be doing something wrong.

TheMonster · 27-03-2006 12:32PM

would imagine its clearcut
if you need to exceed the speed limit to pass out then the person you are passing must be doing the speed limit so why pass them out.

maidhc · 27-03-2006 01:47PM

TheMonster wrote:

would imagine its clearcut
if you need to exceed the speed limit to pass out then the person you are passing must be doing the speed limit so why pass them out.

That doesnt necessarily hold true, to pass someone out safely you must do the speed they are doing + 10/15/20 mph. If a person is doing 50mph then it is quite conceivable you might do 70 to overtake them safely.

Unfortuantely the speeding legislation predates speed cameras, and were originally "more what you would call guidelines" (to paraphrase Captain Barbossa). They are now enforced as if they have some basis in logic, which often they dont.

I think the distance over time method is a good idea though provided it has reasonable tolerances.

optiplexgx270 · 27-03-2006 01:57PM

Karlitosway1978 wrote:

theres no challenge possible. If you need to speed to overtake then you shouldnt be overtaking.

MM,
16 KMH I presume you meant?

Try your maths there again :rolleyes:

66mph-50mph/5*8=25.6kph

Victor · 27-03-2006 02:33PM

maidhc wrote:

That doesnt necessarily hold true, to pass someone out safely you must do the speed they are doing + 10/15/20 mph. If a person is doing 50mph then it is quite conceivable you might do 70 to overtake them safely.

You mean before you meet the other guy, also doing 70, coming in the other direction?

maidhc · 27-03-2006 02:38PM

Victor wrote:

You mean before you meet the other guy, also doing 70, coming in the other direction?

I mean so you spend the least amount of time at the wrong side of the road when overtaking something like an articulated lorry!

Eru · 28-03-2006 08:44PM

maidhc wrote:

I mean so you spend the least amount of time at the wrong side of the road when overtaking something like an articulated lorry!

Going around a large vehicle would cause wind resistance, blow outs, etc and if you need to get around fast then you mustnt be able to see oncoming traffic clearly.

It still doesnt explain why your overtaking a vehicle doing the speed limit

maidhc · 28-03-2006 09:21PM

Karlitosway1978 wrote:

Going around a large vehicle would cause wind resistance, blow outs, etc

Please explain. How does overtaking cause a blowout or extra wind resistance. Cars pass out lorries every day on roads all over the country, many of them motorways/dual carriage ways.

Karlitosway1978 wrote:

and if you need to get around fast then you mustnt be able to see oncoming traffic clearly.

I like driving on the left, and fell uncomfortable at the wrong side, even on a clear straight stretch. IIRC the rules of the road reflect these sentiments.

Karlitosway1978 wrote:

It still doesnt explain why your overtaking a vehicle doing the speed limit

Refer to post #23, par 1 above, reproduced for your convenience:

to pass someone out safely you must do the speed they are doing + 10/15/20 mph. If a person is doing 50mph then it is quite conceivable you might do 70 to overtake them safely.

For the record I have 0 penalty points and a full NCB (touch wood)

Eru · 28-03-2006 09:44PM

maidhc wrote:

Please explain. How does overtaking cause a blowout or extra wind resistance. Cars pass out lorries every day on roads all over the country, many of them motorways/dual carriage ways.

Put simple? the wind is blocked by the larger vehicle and when that wind is re-introduced it can cause to swerve. Also add that the larger vehicle is now in your slipstream. As for blow outs, overtaking no but the higher the speed the more dangerous the blow out.

maidhc wrote:

I like driving on the left, and fell uncomfortable at the wrong side, even on a clear straight stretch. IIRC the rules of the road reflect these sentiments.

So now your nervous when performing this operation? The more you speak the more I urge you not too overtake at speed however please note you would still be on the right (left) side of the road if overtaking on a motorway so there would be no need to break the 120kmh limit.

maidhc wrote:

Refer to post #23, par 1 above, reproduced for your convenience:

The original post asks if the speed limit applies when overtaking. the response is if the car you overtake is doing the limit why overtake? Your counter has no basis. In your scenario you say your doing 60 or 70 overtaking a car doing 50, but whats the speed limit in this scenario? Is it 60? then why overtake doing 70?????

maidhc wrote:

For the record I have 0 penalty points and a full NCB (touch wood)

And? So do a lot of little boy racers until they go head first into an oncoming car or get a blow out or encounter wind after overtaking. In fact most people have no penalty points because they slow down for the cameras and guns not because they dont speed or drive dangerously.

EireRoadUser · 28-03-2006 09:56PM

I'm on my way home on a sunday night ,I'm driving about a half an hour with about an hour to go.
I'm stuck behind what seems to be an elderly woman or man ,judging by the gentle swaying of the car which is about 10 years old.

My prediciment is I have a 5 seriers bmw behind me and the guy has a whole bunch of traffic behind him .Everytime I think the guy in front is making progress he slows down and the guy behind me gets annoyed.

We are all travelling at 8 kilometers below the speed limit on a good open country road.
In order for me to overtake and keep my distance when i pull back in again I will more than likely have to break the limit.

Eru · 28-03-2006 10:21PM

EireRoadUser wrote:

Everytime I think the guy in front is making progress he slows down

He always speeds up in the areas that you could overtake as well doesnt he? I swear that 1 bad driver gets around.

EireRoadUser wrote:

We are all travelling at 8 kilometers below the speed limit on a good open country road.

If he fails to allow traffic to go past while travelling under the limit without reason he is actually breaking the law.

EireRoadUser wrote:

In order for me to overtake and keep my distance when i pull back in again I will more than likely have to break the limit.

Granted but that doesnt make it legal which was the whole point to this thread.

Exceeding the speed limit whilst overtaking

Comments