Exceeding the speed limit whilst overtaking

Trojan911

Is it an offence to exceed the speed limit whilst overtaking?

I would be interested in your views / comments and any references or links to uphold a "No" answer... I cannot find any in the statute book but was asked the question recently.


Cheers


TJ911...

Diamondmaker

I was pulled for 66mph in 50 zone. Lanes were merging to 1 ahead and I was on out side lane adjacent a tightly packed inner lane. I was very close to front car. I put on the power to get into inside lane at top of queue rather than barge in to middle (as I thought the o/t would be safer)....then bang !pulled in by the boys ahead.... no sympathy.
Also I have done advanced driving and the instructor assured me that it is stilll illegal when o/t.

Thirdfox

Are you sure you weren't going 66mph in a 50kmph zone ? That would a big difference in speed!

As to the current law on overtaking, no idea

Diamondmaker

No it was 2 years ago and was on Blanch Dualler on way to Ashtown round about before DG Opel. 66mph in 50mph zone.

hullaballoo

OP, I'd say that any overtaking that involves travelling at a speed that is beyond the speed limit would be considered an offence. You are only supposed to overtake someone who is travelling at a very slow speed.

EireRoadUser

Circumstances always decifer the outcome I wreckon.
If it's pi**ing rain and your doing 53 in a 40 zone ,a guard is going to do you big time . Who is going to sit in the rain while muppets drive up too close of each other and skid so fast they are twirling like prima ballerina's.

Sangre

The only reason you'd need to go over the speed limit when overtaking someone is when the car ahead is doing the speed limit. So why do you have to overtake them then? Thats probably how a court will look at it.

Karoma

2nd attempt.let's hope this coherent&in English.

Some EU countries provide for overtaking speeds.
However, as per the Irish rules of the road:

No vehicle other than exempted vehicles (fire brigades, ambulances, Garda cars) may exceed the maximum road speed limit at any time.

If one must exceed the speed limit by a considerable amount, then chances are that they're either overtaking a car which is travelling close the speed limit or they're overtaking several cars at a time. In either case, it is dangerous. As such, you deserve what you get. Especially if it has been raining.

EireRoadUser

go slower

Eru

Bang on Karoma. Its pretty basic stuff and obvious.

Eire,
WTF???

Karoma

Karlitosway1978 wrote:

Eire,
WTF???

I thought it was just me. phew!

EireRoadUser

The worst thing a driver can do is ignore other drivers on the road.

Going exactly the speed limit all the time will not save your life ,you need to keep the eye out.

My old man has 8 penalty points for breaking the speed limit, he never goes over 60mph even on motor ways though. And he never overtakes.

Hes just the one who might pass by a speed camera doing a couple of mile an hour more than he's suppose to.

I really think sometimes the government encourage drivers to try and get away with speeding ,because they always seem to be sneaky with it's tactics in catching people. Be honest with people and they will be honest back.

Trojan911

Cheers all,

I would have to go with the fact that exceeding the speed limit would constitute an offence under the RTA.

I have spoken to various Garda sources, including traffic corps and all have said "They think you can but can't find legislation / proven cases to back it up", nobody seems to know. I guess it is yet to be challenged in the courts....

TJ911...

mountainyman

Trojan911 wrote:

...
I would have to go with the fact that exceeding the speed limit would constitute an offence under the RTA... I guess it is yet to be challenged in the courts....

It won't be challenged successfully. YOU CANNOT LEGALLY EXCEED THE SPEED LIMIT WHILE OVERTAKING.
I am sure the judge woudn't hammer you on it.

MM

mountainyman

66 MPH in a 50 MPH zone is 26 KMH over the speed limit

This is understandable but how could it be legal?

MM

Eru

Trojan911 wrote:

Cheers all,

I would have to go with the fact that exceeding the speed limit would constitute an offence under the RTA.

I have spoken to various Garda sources, including traffic corps and all have said "They think you can but can't find legislation / proven cases to back it up", nobody seems to know. I guess it is yet to be challenged in the courts....

TJ911...

theres no challenge possible. If you need to speed to overtake then you shouldnt be overtaking.



MM,
16 KMH I presume you meant?

Hagar

I had look at one of the signs. It just said 60kph.
There was no small print that said "may be exceeded if overtaking".

MrPudding

They are installing a new speed detection system in Northern Ireland. It has two sets of cameras miles apart. Car are photographed at each end the the average speed is worked out.

Here is an interesting quote from the Irish Times article:

Chief Inspector Rosemary Leech, of the Road Policing Development department in the PSNI wrote:

the strength of the system was that it allowed someone to exceed the limit briefly, as in the case of over taking, providing their average speed remained under the limit.

The implication here seems to be that the PSNI are not overly worried with a small amount of speed when overtaking. That does seem reasonable.

Full article here: http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/motoring/2006/0222/2418148504MOT22TRAPS.html

Trojan911

Hagar wrote:

I had look at one of the signs. It just said 60kph.
There was no small print that said "may be exceeded if overtaking".

Cheers Hagar,

As simple as that...... Why didn't I look, D'OH .....:p

TJ911...

Victor

MrPudding wrote:

They are installing a new speed detection system in Northern Ireland. It has two sets of cameras miles apart. Car are photographed at each end the the average speed is worked out.

Just another tool, one where people can't claim "oh, it was only for a moment"

Victor

EireRoadUser wrote:

My old man has 8 penalty points for breaking the speed limit, he never goes over 60mph even on motor ways though. And he never overtakes.

Does he also do 60mph through the centre of town? He has to be doing something wrong.

TheMonster

would imagine its clearcut
if you need to exceed the speed limit to pass out then the person you are passing must be doing the speed limit so why pass them out.

maidhc

TheMonster wrote:

would imagine its clearcut
if you need to exceed the speed limit to pass out then the person you are passing must be doing the speed limit so why pass them out.

That doesnt necessarily hold true, to pass someone out safely you must do the speed they are doing + 10/15/20 mph. If a person is doing 50mph then it is quite conceivable you might do 70 to overtake them safely.

Unfortuantely the speeding legislation predates speed cameras, and were originally "more what you would call guidelines" (to paraphrase Captain Barbossa). They are now enforced as if they have some basis in logic, which often they dont.

I think the distance over time method is a good idea though provided it has reasonable tolerances.

optiplexgx270

Karlitosway1978 wrote:

theres no challenge possible. If you need to speed to overtake then you shouldnt be overtaking.



MM,
16 KMH I presume you meant?

Try your maths there again :rolleyes:

66mph-50mph/5*8=25.6kph

Victor

maidhc wrote:

That doesnt necessarily hold true, to pass someone out safely you must do the speed they are doing + 10/15/20 mph. If a person is doing 50mph then it is quite conceivable you might do 70 to overtake them safely.

You mean before you meet the other guy, also doing 70, coming in the other direction?

maidhc

Victor wrote:

You mean before you meet the other guy, also doing 70, coming in the other direction?

I mean so you spend the least amount of time at the wrong side of the road when overtaking something like an articulated lorry!

Eru

maidhc wrote:

I mean so you spend the least amount of time at the wrong side of the road when overtaking something like an articulated lorry!

Going around a large vehicle would cause wind resistance, blow outs, etc and if you need to get around fast then you mustnt be able to see oncoming traffic clearly.

It still doesnt explain why your overtaking a vehicle doing the speed limit

maidhc

Karlitosway1978 wrote:

Going around a large vehicle would cause wind resistance, blow outs, etc

Please explain. How does overtaking cause a blowout or extra wind resistance. Cars pass out lorries every day on roads all over the country, many of them motorways/dual carriage ways.

Karlitosway1978 wrote:

and if you need to get around fast then you mustnt be able to see oncoming traffic clearly.

I like driving on the left, and fell uncomfortable at the wrong side, even on a clear straight stretch. IIRC the rules of the road reflect these sentiments.

Karlitosway1978 wrote:

It still doesnt explain why your overtaking a vehicle doing the speed limit

Refer to post #23, par 1 above, reproduced for your convenience:

to pass someone out safely you must do the speed they are doing + 10/15/20 mph. If a person is doing 50mph then it is quite conceivable you might do 70 to overtake them safely.

For the record I have 0 penalty points and a full NCB (touch wood)

Eru

maidhc wrote:

Please explain. How does overtaking cause a blowout or extra wind resistance. Cars pass out lorries every day on roads all over the country, many of them motorways/dual carriage ways.

Put simple? the wind is blocked by the larger vehicle and when that wind is re-introduced it can cause to swerve. Also add that the larger vehicle is now in your slipstream. As for blow outs, overtaking no but the higher the speed the more dangerous the blow out.

maidhc wrote:

I like driving on the left, and fell uncomfortable at the wrong side, even on a clear straight stretch. IIRC the rules of the road reflect these sentiments.

So now your nervous when performing this operation? The more you speak the more I urge you not too overtake at speed however please note you would still be on the right (left) side of the road if overtaking on a motorway so there would be no need to break the 120kmh limit.

maidhc wrote:

Refer to post #23, par 1 above, reproduced for your convenience:

The original post asks if the speed limit applies when overtaking. the response is if the car you overtake is doing the limit why overtake? Your counter has no basis. In your scenario you say your doing 60 or 70 overtaking a car doing 50, but whats the speed limit in this scenario? Is it 60? then why overtake doing 70?????

maidhc wrote:

For the record I have 0 penalty points and a full NCB (touch wood)

And? So do a lot of little boy racers until they go head first into an oncoming car or get a blow out or encounter wind after overtaking. In fact most people have no penalty points because they slow down for the cameras and guns not because they dont speed or drive dangerously.

EireRoadUser

I'm on my way home on a sunday night ,I'm driving about a half an hour with about an hour to go.
I'm stuck behind what seems to be an elderly woman or man ,judging by the gentle swaying of the car which is about 10 years old.

My prediciment is I have a 5 seriers bmw behind me and the guy has a whole bunch of traffic behind him .Everytime I think the guy in front is making progress he slows down and the guy behind me gets annoyed.

We are all travelling at 8 kilometers below the speed limit on a good open country road.
In order for me to overtake and keep my distance when i pull back in again I will more than likely have to break the limit.

Eru

EireRoadUser wrote:

Everytime I think the guy in front is making progress he slows down

He always speeds up in the areas that you could overtake as well doesnt he? I swear that 1 bad driver gets around.

EireRoadUser wrote:

We are all travelling at 8 kilometers below the speed limit on a good open country road.

If he fails to allow traffic to go past while travelling under the limit without reason he is actually breaking the law.

EireRoadUser wrote:

In order for me to overtake and keep my distance when i pull back in again I will more than likely have to break the limit.

Granted but that doesnt make it legal which was the whole point to this thread.

EireRoadUser

I understand it's not legal to speed ,but in order to keep the safety of the road I was on ,it is duty on me to overtake and keep things moving.

maidhc

This is going very OT. I am aware exceeding a relevant speed limit is an offence, but it is silly in a very pythonesque way to hold up complying with the limits as some sort of magic way to avoid having a crash.

Karlitosway1978 wrote:

Put simple? the wind is blocked by the larger vehicle and when that wind is re-introduced it can cause to swerve. Also add that the larger vehicle is now in your slipstream. As for blow outs, overtaking no but the higher the speed the more dangerous the blow out.

Thanks for the physics lesson. However you should note that you should not be that close to a large vehicle at 60mph. Blowouts do happen, but thankfullyn they are an extremely rare occurance can be minimised by proper maintenance and fitting the correct tyres.

Karlitosway1978 wrote:

So now your nervous when performing this operation? The more you speak the more I urge you not too overtake at speed however please note you would still be on the right (left) side of the road if overtaking on a motorway so there would be no need to break the 120kmh limit.

We drive on the left in this county and I dont recommend passing an artic with a relative speed of 5mph. The comment re motorways is silly.

Karlitosway1978 wrote:

The original post asks if the speed limit applies when overtaking. the response is if the car you overtake is doing the limit why overtake? Your counter has no basis. In your scenario you say your doing 60 or 70 overtaking a car doing 50, but whats the speed limit in this scenario? Is it 60? then why overtake doing 70?????

We have established the speed limit applies when overtaking, but it often is safer to overtake at 70. Do you suggest if a vehicle is doing 57 mph you should pass at +3 (slow walking) speed?

Karlitosway1978 wrote:

And? So do a lot of little boy racers until they go head first into an oncoming car or get a blow out or encounter wind after overtaking. In fact most people have no penalty points because they slow down for the cameras and guns not because they dont speed or drive dangerously.

I am also glad to say my car is a bog standard Ford Focus Diesel, nothing too fancy. It is impossible slow down for a speed camera since the Gardaí tend to locate themselves so such cannot occur.

I get the impression you havn't done much driving youself, but the most dangerous places tend not to be main roads, but secondary roads with bad bends, humps and hollows.

Turner

maidhc wrote:

most dangerous places tend not to be main roads, but secondary roads with bad bends, humps and hollows.

Which mostly are in low garda populated districts. Likes of the n4 n7 n11 all have regional traffic corps in their area's

At any one time only about 24-30 gardai might be working in some countys !!! With a third taken up oh station duties

Eru

maidhc wrote:

This is going very OT. I am aware exceeding a relevant speed limit is an offence, but it is silly in a very pythonesque way to hold up complying with the limits as some sort of magic way to avoid having a crash.

So it doesnt reduce road deaths at all? Speed makes no difference?

maidhc wrote:

Thanks for the physics lesson. However you should note that you should not be that close to a large vehicle at 60mph. Blowouts do happen, but thankfullyn they are an extremely rare occurance can be minimised by proper maintenance and fitting the correct tyres..

You are the one thats speaking about overtaking a large vehicle not I.

maidhc wrote:

We drive on the left in this county and I dont recommend passing an artic with a relative speed of 5mph. The comment re motorways is silly.

Again, you brought up artics and motorways.

maidhc wrote:

I am also glad to say my car is a bog standard Ford Focus Diesel, nothing too fancy. It is impossible slow down for a speed camera since the Gardaí tend to locate themselves so such cannot occur.

speed cameras are fixed however everyone knows that they only catch you if you go past the white lines over the speed limit. Your either blind or have no brakes if you cannot slow down in time. The Gatso is the hand held device.

maidhc wrote:

since the Gardaí tend to locate themselves so such cannot occur.

And you believe that I should stand on a small road, on a bend in bad weather holding a gatso gun waiting for someone, like you, to come tearing around said corner at high speed? My uniform has 'Garda' not a large 'S' on it. "Well Chief, you will be glad to know we caught a speeder. Sadly we lost 6 men out there but we got her in the end".

maidhc wrote:

I get the impression you havn't done much driving youself, but the most dangerous places tend not to be main roads, but secondary roads with bad bends, humps and hollows.

hmmm, Im not debating who has the biggest car or the cleanest license however I was aware of the effects speed has on cars such as increased wind resistence, something you didnt realise even existed.

EireRoadUser

My little example was just an example ,something that happens to all drivers at some stage.

Don't expect your vehicle to take care of you if you don't take care of yourself.

Eru

EireRoadUser wrote:

I understand it's not legal to speed ,but in order to keep the safety of the road I was on ,it is duty on me to overtake and keep things moving.

Im not condeming you, were all human and those slow gits who wont even look in their mirror and pull over are very annoying. I was merely stating that theres no lawful reason for speeding.

Thats just a legal view not a moral one.

Turner

Karlitosway1978 wrote:

And you believe that I should stand on a small road, on a bend in bad weather holding a gatso gun waiting for someone, like you, to come tearing around said corner at high speed? My uniform has 'Garda' not a large 'S' on it. "Well Chief, you will be glad to know we caught a speeder. Sadly we lost 6 men out there but we got her in the end".

Trying to detect, stop and in some cases persue cars on "back roads" is extremely dangerous.

Maybe if non intercept detections were increased in these area. Where Gardai did not have to pull over the dirver.

But then again how do you position a Gatso van on a narrow coutry backroad and where do you get the garda to man it in such lowly populated garda areas.

Eru

Heres a better question, how do you get people to take soem bloody personal responsibility and stop blaming the Gardai for car accidents.

maidhc

hummmm...

Karlitosway1978 wrote:

So it doesnt reduce road deaths at all? Speed makes no difference?

I have never seen a stopped car crash. I suspect stupidity and general arrogance causes more accidents.

Karlitosway1978 wrote:

The Gatso is the hand held device.

http://www.gatsometer.com/index.php?p=5496

Umm, no. Gatso might make handheld cameras now, but are famous for the big stationary ones. we have three cameras in the country with white lines. You will normally be caught by the time you spot a mobile speed trap. If you are a guard you know this.

Karlitosway1978 wrote:

And you believe that I should stand on a small road, on a bend in bad weather holding a gatso gun waiting for someone, like you, to come tearing around said corner at high speed?

You make a lot of assumptions about my driving, all of which are wrong and a bit insulting. I would like to see Gardaí do that general thing though, would certainly beat leaning up against a tree on a sunday evening in a 50k zone that shouldnt be!

EireRoadUser

Thats a great idea ,mean speed.

One device i think is a great deterrent is the sign that reads out your speed.
No matter when i pass it ,I always see people slowing down when there speed is up in lights. It must take the privacy out of the driver or something and they automatically feel guilty.

Also I noticed lately there is yellow lines now painted on certain roads at bends etc, another great idea the thick yellow paint makes you want to slow down.

There are many ways to help drivers drive safer ,without brute garda force.
In spain when road works are been carried out the road's paint markings change to yellow well before hand so you know to slow down.

I''ve always thought different colour roadmarking subconciously help drivers.

SouperComputer

by Karlitosway1978 wrote:

Going around a large vehicle would cause wind resistance, blow outs, etc

If you experience a "slipstream effect" worth talking about @ 100Km\h you are already too close to the vehice in front, or perhaps driving a vehicle with the aerodynamic footprint of a house!! The lateral instability occurs if you drive to closey to the side of the vehicle while you are overtaking, as the two streams of disturbed air meet. This also leads to extra drag. These are two separate occurances.

Blowouts are reasonably rare in passenger vehicles and severe accidents as a result of them even more scarce.

The assumption that a blowout is more dangerous at a higher speed is incorrect. One reason for this is that the failed corner on the car has less time to occillate, which is one of the main reasons for loss of control. Of course as you slow down things get more interesting, but you have a bit more warning at that stage. I accept however that if you take an extreme example of speed that the instability may cause a spin, but only of one overreacts by thumping on the anchors or other violent attempts to "control" the car.

Speed makes no difference?

As I have stated in other threads, speed is only one factor of many. However it is the easiest to quantify, so its an easy target.

Im too lazy to retype, so ill C&P:

soupercomputer wrote:

The state of awareness of the driver
Visibility.
Field of vision.
Available traction\vehicle condition
Proximity to hazards such as junctions and pedestrians.
Availability of surfaces to take evasive action.

These are some of the main contributing factors of accidents. Speeding does not enter the equation, inappropiate use of speed however does. Again two very different things.


Back OT, assuming you have picked a "safe" spot to overtake a long vehicle in a reasonable period of time it may be required to exceed the legal speed limit. I would rather overtake said vehicle and pull back into my lane leaving a good distance between myself and the vehicle I have overtaken, than concern myself with breaking the law.

Yes it is breaking the law. TBH I put mine and my passenger's safety first and the law second.

Eru

maidhc wrote:

I have never seen a stopped car crash.

Exactly my point. Your confusing who is arguing in defence of speeding, its you.

maidhc wrote:

Umm, no. Gatso might make handheld cameras now, but are famous for the big stationary ones. we have three cameras in the country with white lines. You will normally be caught by the time you spot a mobile speed trap. If you are a guard you know this.

NO, the Gatso is the hand held radar that Gardai use. When you see the Gardai at the side of the road pointing a device at you its not a machine gun, its a Gatso radar gun. Theres more than 3 cameras but not all are working. Big difference. Just because people call all things related to detecting speeding 'gatsos' doesnt make it so but is there really a point in this?

maidhc wrote:

You make a lot of assumptions about my driving, all of which are wrong and a bit insulting. I would like to see Gardaí do that general thing though, would certainly beat leaning up against a tree on a sunday evening in a 50k zone that shouldnt be!

well thats because you cant distinguish between reality and fiction or your incapable of realising that the world doesnt do what you want simple because you wish it.

Again for you (because everyone else seems to understand) IT. IS. SUICIDAL. TO. STAND. IN. THE. MIDDLE. OF. THE. ROAD. IN. DARK. WET. CONDITIONS. ON. A. BLIND. CORNER. UNLESS. YOU. ARE. SUPERMAN.

And it would really help if people grew up and didnt blame the Gardai when they crash their car because they were speeding. At no point was I or any other Garda maing you speed or effectign the conditions.

maidhc

I give up. You dont want to listen. This is my last post on the matter.

Karlitosway1978 wrote:

Exactly my point.

Because a stopped car cannot crash does not means speeding is the cause of all accidents. Refer to SouperComputer above for a fuller explaination.

Karlitosway1978 wrote:

NO, the Gatso is the hand held radar that Gardai use. When you see the Gardai at the side of the road pointing a device at you its not a machine gun, its a Gatso radar gun. Theres more than 3 cameras but not all are working. Big difference. Just because people call all things related to detecting speeding 'gatsos' doesnt make it so but is there really a point in this?

If you clicked the link above you would see all the speed metering equipment that Gatsometer BV make. I cant see a handheld gun, but strangely enough everything required to kit out a van and a stationary camera is there.

Karlitosway1978 wrote:

Again for you (because everyone else seems to understand) IT. IS. SUICIDAL. TO. STAND. IN. THE. MIDDLE. OF. THE. ROAD. IN. DARK. WET. CONDITIONS. ON. A. BLIND. CORNER. UNLESS. YOU. ARE. SUPERMAN.

Then dont do it. Pick a safe place to stand, and dont stand in the middle of the road. There is no need as the cameras are calibrated to take account of the offset.

Eru

maidhc wrote:

I give up. You dont want to listen. This is my last post on the matter.

Because a stopped car cannot crash does not means speeding is the cause of all accidents. Refer to SouperComputer above for a fuller explaination.

If you clicked the link above you would see all the speed metering equipment that Gatsometer BV make. I cant see a handheld gun, but strangely enough everything required to kit out a van and a stationary camera is there.

Then dont do it. Pick a safe place to stand, and dont stand in the middle of the road. There is no need as the cameras are calibrated to take account of the offset.

1. Good you make no sense anyway.

2. never blamed speed for all accidents, I said it contributes, again you are the one arguing over speed and safety.

3. I dont need a commercial site, I can walk into a store room and see them or for the likes of yourself do a Google Ireland search.

4. Like on a straight wide road such as the N7 or a Motorway? You are the one calling for Gardai to be where most accidents happen which would kill Gardai not save drivers.

Victor

maidhc wrote:

You make a lot of assumptions about my driving, all of which are wrong and a bit insulting. I would like to see Gardaí do that general thing though, would certainly beat leaning up against a tree on a sunday evening in a 50k zone that shouldnt be!

50 km/h zones tend to have pedestrians in them. Some people forget to adjust their speed from country to town.

maidhc wrote:

Because a stopped car cannot crash does not means speeding is the cause of all accidents.

Speed has a direct relationship with severity of accidents, with severity believed to be proportional to somewhere between the speed cubed and speed to the power of 4.

Speed has a linear proportion to the likelyhood of certain accidents.

maidhc

Victor wrote:

Speed has a linear proportion to the likelyhood of certain accidents.

It does all things being equal. I'm sure you will accept 120kmph on a motorway is inherently safer than 20kmph on a bad hairpin bend.

The speed "mantra" I feel is doing road safety an injustice. I was in a car recently with a cousin on a country road. He was doing 80kmph, and that was the limit. I told him he was driving too fast for the road (I know the road in question backwards, and it has some nasty blind spots), but he his answer was that it is fine, as it is the speed limit. I have come across this attitude from numerous people.

Prosecuting people for doing 110kmph on a 100kmph dual carriageway does nothing only reinforce this idea about the law being in some way infallible and that HIGH speeds as distinct from UNSUITABLE speeds are the real culprit.

What I would love to see is more of those "SLOW" and "VERY SLOW" signs before bends where suitable as well as a sign indicating the angle of the bend. I do think it would help people moderate their speed (which might be below the limit to begin with.... before Karlito or someone jumps down my throat) before they hit a bad corner.

Sparks

If we're going to get those "SLOW" signs before bends, could we also get a sign for slip roads that read "SPEED UP YOU IDIOT, WE'RE MERGING WITH FAST-MOVING TRAFFIC NOW"?

Victor

maidhc wrote:

It does all things being equal. I'm sure you will accept 120kmph on a motorway is inherently safer than 20kmph on a bad hairpin bend.

All things being equal a motorway tends not to have bad hairpin bends. Apples and gadflys.

I told him he was driving too fast for the road (I know the road in question backwards, and it has some nasty blind spots), but he his answer was that it is fine, as it is the speed limit.

Then smack him and tell him its a limit, not a target.

Prosecuting people for doing 110kmph on a 100kmph dual carriageway does nothing only reinforce this idea about the law being in some way infallible and that HIGH speeds as distinct from UNSUITABLE speeds are the real culprit.

Every infraction should be punished (within the norms of the law). The vast majority of detections are on single-carriageway roads. People only think they happen on motorways, because they are the ones people see.

What I would love to see is more of those "SLOW" and "VERY SLOW" signs before bends where suitable as well as a sign indicating the angle of the bend.

How about "SLOW" and "VERY SLOW" and "REALLY F**KING STUPID"

maidhc

Victor wrote:

Every infraction should be punished (within the norms of the law).

Obviously that is impossible, but also probably undesirable since the only way you can get close to that is through a textbook application of totalitarianism. Social orders where such enforcement has been applied normally have not lasted very long. Even in the middle ages when stealing a loaf of bread was punishable by death there had to be many pardons and exceptions in place to prevent peasant revolts!

Untimately cars move, and are controlled by fallible human beings. They will crash while those two conditions remain. Apparently the rate of road deaths is lower now than it was in 1972, despite the massive increase in traffic, so I dont think there is any need to get too excited.

Sparks wrote:

"SPEED UP YOU IDIOT, WE'RE MERGING WITH FAST-MOVING TRAFFIC NOW"

No, in the new politically correct world of gay byrne motoring those drivers are to be aspired to.

Eru

EireRoadUser wrote:

One device i think is a great deterrent is the sign that reads out your speed.
No matter when i pass it ,I always see people slowing down when there speed is up in lights.

Sorry I didnt reply sooner. I agree, this device has a big psychological effect as does the speed lines you run across from time to time.

Both always make me do a double check of the speed and slow down more.