getting a house

the_syco · 15-03-2006 03:54PM

A man's house is his castle. If he can't feel at home in it, he will feel at home nowhere.

You've known this guy for years, but, as you don't live together, you didn't care less about it. Now, tho, you're moving in with him, and you're going over and over this rumour. Best advice: ask him discreetly. Some gays have to (due to our society) wait untill they're older, or perhaps moved out of their home, before they can "come out".

Saying that, some straight people do act a little camp, and if they have no gf, rumours spread, so don't make a big deal out of it. He may be staight, and get very offended if his best mate starts asking is he gay.

People often start these rumours out of revenge, esp if this guy is good with the ladies. So, to get back at him, they use the G word to put him down.

Airblazer · 15-03-2006 04:03PM

Gil_Dub wrote:

Stall the ball lads and lasses! There's nothing wrong with a bloke potentially having a problem if a friend of his is gay and has chosen not to tell him. He's buying a house with him for crying out loud. You might like to think business is business and all that, but it's rarely that simple.

A former housemate of mine, let's call him 'Joe', is gay. Absolutely sound bloke and a very good friend still. But I just wasn't comfortable with him bringing lads back to our house when he'd pulled on a night out. Don't beat me up over this - It's just something I wasn't comfortable with - Everyone has their own comfort zone and there's no point in having a go at someone because of a situation that makes them feel uncomfortable, whether you think they're right or wrong to feel that way.

I spoke with 'Joe' about this calmly and openly. He was very understanding and genuinely understood my reaction. He suggested he wouldn't bring guys back to the house in future and stuck to it. I know he ended up in a relationship with a nice bloke and after a couple of months I told him to fire away and bring him over if he wanted, which he did.

'Joe' is a good guy who was understanding of a hetrosexual friends discomfort with homosexuality. It was partly ignorance on my part but largely down to social conditioning. 'Joe' took the time to allow me, his hetro friend, readjust my notions of normality until I was comfortable enough to get over myself and my misconceptions.

If he'd been a jerk about it or had tried pushing ahead with no regard for my obvious discomfort, I'd have reacted swiftly and ejected him from our house, as shameful a reaction as that might read to you (and me) now.

Kick all of that up a notch or two and consider a situation where you were planning on buying a house with a friend who may or may not be gay. But you've not had the benefit of a frank, calm and polite discussion regarding your own comfort zone/level, your misconceptions and worries, with someone who may or may not react in a calm and understanding manner - Whether the rumour is true or not. Could turn really messy, really quickly.

It's only right that you'd consider your reaction before commiting financially if the two of you are planning on living in the house together. I don't think the OP is being unfair or unreasonable to question what's going to be okay with him, but it's really a discussion that should be taking place with his friend. Tell him that you've heard rumours and that you don't want a row with him but you'd like to hear it from him now if it's true. Tell him that you'd like to know if there's anything he'd like to tell you now - That you don't want to have anything 'surprising' to deal with in future, particularly if you're taking the opportunity to discuss this now.

Yeah, I'm sure there are people reading this who would like to brand me as a biggoted homophobic neanderthal. I'm not, really I'm not. I've had to really question my own reactions and social programming if you will. Very few people in Ireland have had the benefit of growing up with openly 'gay' friends and so, each of us in our own time have to decide how we should best challenge our own 'fears' (sorry - probably a poor choice of words). I'd like to think I'm learning and doing reasonably well and doing the right thing, at least by my gay friends. I think the OP is just facing a situation where he'll have to decide to remain in the mindset he currently finds himself or else be prepared to start questioning his reasons for feeling a little uneasy with his friends possibly homosexual preference.

I'm not saying that homophobia is acceptable but I think it's understandable to a great extent. As long as someone is prepared to challenge themself to reassess their position with regard to homosexuality, I think that person should be encouraged to do so rather than be criticised or 'flamed' for mentioning they may have a problem with accepting someones sexuality.

I hope I've not strayed too far off-topic and that my own experience and thoughts are considered helpful and constructive. OP, best of luck and really try to keep an open mind here.

Gil

excellent reply..well thought out..ignore the gay bashers and the pc brigade..it's all in Gil's mail..read it and decide..

hepcat · 15-03-2006 05:13PM

Sorry but I still don't see why it is so acceptable that heterosexual people are allowed have "reservations" about a gay persons sex life (will he bring blokes home?, will they make noise? oh the horror of it). I feel sorry for Gil_Dubs mate. While he was not allowed have a sex life until Gil_Dub knew it was a "steady relationship", I bet Gil_Dub would have balked at being told he could not bring girls back to his room. Sheer and utter hypocrisy.

The best thing is indeed to pull out of the house purchase. But it is homophobia, and it can be dressed up as "acceptable" or "understandable", but it is still unfair.

rsynnott · 15-03-2006 05:18PM

Airblazer wrote:

excellent reply..well thought out..ignore the gay bashers and the pc brigade..it's all in Gil's mail..read it and decide..

Ah, yes, I see, this is the 'give SOME rights, but certainly nothing amounting to equality approach', more or less. They should be happy with what they get! :rolleyes:

15-03-2006 08:18PM

hepcat wrote:

Sorry but I still don't see why it is so acceptable that heterosexual people are allowed have "reservations" about a gay persons sex life (will he bring blokes home?, will they make noise? oh the horror of it). I feel sorry for Gil_Dubs mate. While he was not allowed have a sex life until Gil_Dub knew it was a "steady relationship", I bet Gil_Dub would have balked at being told he could not bring girls back to his room. Sheer and utter hypocrisy.

The best thing is indeed to pull out of the house purchase. But it is homophobia, and it can be dressed up as "acceptable" or "understandable", but it is still unfair.

Yeah I think I agree on this one.

lucernarian · 15-03-2006 09:03PM

I think some posters are being too harsh on the original poster.

Gil_Dub had a very balanced post.
I believe that many heterosexual people are somewhat ignorant of homosexuality, through not being homosexual themselves. It stands to reason that if the original poster has doubts about the lifestyle of the friend, then he should address those doubts, as he may be living with the man.

The original poster likes the guy. Am I right, in saying that he still would be friends with the guy despite his sexuality? Surely, in this situation, it is okay to be concerned about the consequences of living with a gay guy? He is only human, and it is understandable to be afraid of something we do not fully know.

The original poster should find out about the other guy's situation. If it turns out that if he is gay, then they need to discuss any possible issues the original poster might have with living with him.

If the original poster does not want to live with a gay guy, simply because he is gay, then that is homophobia.

rsynnott · 15-03-2006 09:10PM

To_be_confirmed wrote:

It stands to reason that if the original poster has doubts about the lifestyle of the friend,

Lifestyle? LIFESTYLE?! Oh, dear.

Untense · 15-03-2006 09:28PM

hepcat wrote:

Sorry but I still don't see why it is so acceptable that heterosexual people are allowed have "reservations" about a gay persons sex life (will he bring blokes home?, will they make noise? oh the horror of it). I feel sorry for Gil_Dubs mate. While he was not allowed have a sex life until Gil_Dub knew it was a "steady relationship", I bet Gil_Dub would have balked at being told he could not bring girls back to his room. Sheer and utter hypocrisy.

The best thing is indeed to pull out of the house purchase. But it is homophobia, and it can be dressed up as "acceptable" or "understandable", but it is still unfair.

While I agree with that, you also have to factor in to the equation that prejudices, though unfair on the person being discriminited against, are also ingrained by society.

Pointing the finger and screaming biggot every time someone makes a not-so-politically correct comment is pointless. While it may make you seem enlightened and generally fantastic, and maybe rally some equally well enlightened and fantastic people to back up your comment, it serves no other purpose.

You are not dealing with the issue and you certainly not even attempting to have the poster see your point of view.

Try and be reasonable and get people to question the foundations of their beliefs, instead of telling them they are a fool/idiot/biggot.

Who knows, you might even be wrong about something yourself one day, and wouldn't it be nice not to have someone humiliating you and lording their One-upmanship around like a prize.

To the OP, I can understand entirely where you're coming from. I came out to my mates before moving in with them because I didn't want it to become an issue when we were living together.
There were no issues and we got on great in the house, everything went grand and I never did anything they would be uncomfortable with. The upside was that the lads became a lot more comfortable with the whole 'my buddies a gay' thing.

Buying a house is an entirely different story to renting and it's a lot more important that any possible issues are brought up before they become something serious. Just keep in mind that if your buddy isn't gay he might be offended it was brought up, and if he is gay there is also a possibility he's in the closet, and could therefore still get offended that you brought it up.
I suggest if it's the bringing people (guys) home thing you're uncomfortable with, you could mention that it's an issue without having to mention anything about sexuality.

BeardyGit · 15-03-2006 09:34PM

bluewolf wrote:

Yeah I think I agree on this one.

Ah yes - And to my critics I would have to say the following:

The fact remains that many of us were raised in a society where open homosexuality was simply not encountered during our formative years. I have made great efforts to truly understand that my prejudice is unfair and address this recognised failing - as a conscientious citizen of this nation.

This is not a battle, it's not a campaign that you need wage against those of us who still struggle to overcome our upbringing. If you jump down the throats of anyone who expresses concerns about homosexuality you'll do nothing but compound the problem when you could be using it as an opportunity to enlighten and educate.

Homophobia will not just go away because you scream and shout about the injustice of it all at any given opportunity. It's not going to go away because people know it to be socially unacceptable in todays politically correct climate. Like so many of the worlds problems, the answer is in education.

Berate me from your lofty soap-boxes if you will. Just remember that your individual response will serve to either dispel or compound the misunderstandings and concerns that the OP has with regard to homosexuality. Of course - This really only applies to those of you who state your agenda clearly. As ever, there will be replies from the easily led passengers on the latest band-wagon to roll through boards.ie

Kind regards,

Gil
(Still learning)

15-03-2006 09:38PM

Gil_Dub wrote:

Ah yes - And to my critics I would have to say the following:

The fact remains that many of us were raised in a society where open homosexuality was simply not encountered during our formative years. I have made great efforts to truly understand that my prejudice is unfair and address this recognised failing - as a conscientious citizen of this nation.

This is not a battle, it's not a campaign that you need wage against those of us who still struggle to overcome our upbringing. If you jump down the throats of anyone who expresses concerns about homosexuality you'll do nothing but compound the problem when you could be using it as an opportunity to enlighten and educate.

I think the point was that just because it's how it is doesn't mean that's a good reason for continuing as such. That's what I was agreeing with earlier anyway.

I'm not calling anyone a bigot, I just have a small issue with people who think it's peachy to hate gay people. Not necessarily you or anyone else here.
I'm glad you're learning about it though

BeardyGit · 15-03-2006 09:41PM

Thanks Untense - An honest and understanding response which reiterates my own reply.

Gil

BeardyGit · 15-03-2006 09:49PM

bluewolf wrote:

I think the point was that just because it's how it is doesn't mean that's a good reason for continuing as such. That's what I was agreeing with earlier anyway.

I'm not calling anyone a bigot, I just have a small issue with people who think it's peachy to hate gay people. Not necessarily you or anyone else here.
I'm glad you're learning about it though

I think the problem is that understanding and acceptance is required on both 'sides' as such. I tried to understand and accept that I must continually challenge my predisposition towards homophobia. Without many, many of us doing so, we'll never evolve into a society and culture where sexuality is neither here nor there.

Without reciprocated understanding and acceptance that homophobia can only be dealt with through a long and sustained programme of education and re-education to address our misplaced fears etc., we will go nowhere.

At this point I think it best to return to the OP's topic if we can. OP, have you anything to contribute in relation to your first post? Don't worry, there is obviously a certain balance of experience here if you'd like to ask for any more specific advice.

Gil

rsynnott · 16-03-2006 01:45AM

Gil_Dub wrote:

Homophobia will not just go away because you scream and shout about the injustice of it all at any given opportunity. It's not going to go away because people know it to be socially unacceptable in todays politically correct climate. Like so many of the worlds problems, the answer is in education.

Not just socially unacceptable, morally unacceptable. And quite frankly, I'd prefer to see it a societal taboo like overt racism has become to an extent than practised freely.

Part of the solution is education, certainly. Another part is showing homophobes that they have no place in society.
state your agenda clearly.

As ever, there will be replies from the easily led passengers on the latest band-wagon to roll through boards.ie

What, human decency?

Gil_Dub wrote:

I think the problem is that understanding and acceptance is required on both 'sides' as such. I tried to understand and accept that I must continually challenge my predisposition towards homophobia. Without many, many of us doing so, we'll never evolve into a society and culture where sexuality is neither here nor there.

I fail to see why any quarter should be given to mindless bigots. Homophobia is as irrational as racism, and should be treated as such. Just because it was rather common in our enormously defective past doesn't mean we should give it special treatment.

the_syco · 16-03-2006 02:14AM

Jaesus.

To all those people who like to shout bigot at the mere statement that "some people don't like gays", grow up.

The OP asked a simple question, and thus far, most people are screaming bigot at him. Do they try to help him see that gays aren't as bad as they are portrayed? No. Do they try to help him see that gays are just like you and me? No. They screamed bigot, screamed bigot at anyone who tries to help him, and continues to scream bigot.

=-=

OP:
You sound like you're nervous at the thought of having to share your castle with some pinko lefty ass-f**kling pussy, but don't worry: the hollywood image is just that. A hollywood image. Most gays are as manly as most of the macho men, and tbh, it'll be sharing the house with a couple of guys. Sure, they'll be proberly f**king like rabbits in their own room, but I doubt they'll be doing it on the kitchen table*.

*If you're still worried, all you have to do, is draw up a few "house rules" beforehand, and all will be fine.

hepcat · 16-03-2006 11:26AM

the_syco wrote:

Jaesus.

To all those people who like to shout bigot at the mere statement that "some people don't like gays", grow up.

The OP asked a simple question, and thus far, most people are screaming bigot at him. Do they try to help him see that gays aren't as bad as they are portrayed? No. Do they try to help him see that gays are just like you and me? No. They screamed bigot, screamed bigot at anyone who tries to help him, and continues to scream bigot.

=-=

OP:
You sound like you're nervous at the thought of having to share your castle with some pinko lefty ass-f**kling pussy, but don't worry: the hollywood image is just that. A hollywood image. Most gays are as manly as most of the macho men, and tbh, it'll be sharing the house with a couple of guys. Sure, they'll be proberly f**king like rabbits in their own room, but I doubt they'll be doing it on the kitchen table*.

*If you're still worried, all you have to do, is draw up a few "house rules" beforehand, and all will be fine.

It is not a matter of screaming bigot at the OP but he is saying " i'm not homophobic but I have a major problem buying a house with my friend if he is gay". The premise some seem to be operating on is to reply, "sure I know what you mean, it is so hard for us heteros to accept people being gay and we should be given a break and nasty people should not call us homophobes.They should understand how hard it is for us, and they should keep their sexuality well hidden so we have time to adjust to this recent phenomenon". That, in fairness, is a load of b*ll*x.

BeardyGit · 16-03-2006 12:12PM

rsynnott wrote:

Not just socially unacceptable, morally unacceptable. And quite frankly, I'd prefer to see it a societal taboo like overt racism has become to an extent than practised freely.

Part of the solution is education, certainly. Another part is showing homophobes that they have no place in society.
state your agenda clearly.

What, human decency?

I fail to see why any quarter should be given to mindless bigots. Homophobia is as irrational as racism, and should be treated as such. Just because it was rather common in our enormously defective past doesn't mean we should give it special treatment.

I think I've already made my 'agenda' quite clear. I don't label myself as hetro as though it's something that should actually matter to anyone else....Unlike you I'm sorry to see. At this stage in my life, I couldn't care less what anothers sexual orientation may be - It has little bearing on my life.

10 years ago was a different story - I would have balked at the notion that I would have gay friends only a couple of years later. And I'm sorry to say, if my first real conversations about homosexuality and my homophobia at the time were with a gay man were with you, and your reaction mirrored what we see now on this thread, there's a high likelihood that I would have the same views as before.

I think your 'agenda' is more of an impediment than an aid to the OP and others. The turning point of society to a state where genuine acceptance becomes the new normality hinges on slow and sustained progress, understanding and compassion. At the moment, I simply have to discount your worth in this process and set you aside as an overly emotional contributor, ignorant of the challenges you face and the actions you must take to reach your goals. If any of us were to pay too much attention to the undertones in your responses, we might be a little less inclined to listen to the greater proportion of the gay community who simply seek acceptance by the public and recognition in official circles for their rights.

I don't believe you are truly representative of the gay populace at large and would suggest the OP and others realise that balance is largely absent in your responses thus far.

Gil

rsynnott · 16-03-2006 02:14PM

Gil_Dub wrote:

I think I've already made my 'agenda' quite clear. I don't label myself as hetro as though it's something that should actually matter to anyone else....Unlike you I'm sorry to see. At this stage in my life, I couldn't care less what anothers sexual orientation may be - It has little bearing on my life.

Excuse me? Are you referring to me identifying as gay? I think that's allowed...

Gil_Dub wrote:

I think your 'agenda' is more of an impediment than an aid to the OP and others.

What is this 'agenda' of which you speak? If you're talking about the things in my signature, they are whimsically-named blog aggregators, nothing more.

Gil_Dub wrote:

The turning point of society to a state where genuine acceptance becomes the new normality hinges on slow and sustained progress, understanding and compassion. At the moment, I simply have to discount your worth in this process and set you aside as an overly emotional contributor, ignorant of the challenges you face and the actions you must take to reach your goals. If any of us were to pay too much attention to the undertones in your responses, we might be a little less inclined to listen to the greater proportion of the gay community who simply seek acceptance by the public and recognition in official circles for their rights.

All that I seek is equal rights (not currently forthcoming, naturally). What do you think I seek?

Gil_Dub wrote:

I don't believe you are truly representative of the gay populace at large and would suggest the OP and others realise that balance is largely absent in your responses thus far.

Gil

I never claimed to be representative of gay people. And I don't see any reason to give 'balance' to homophobia. One only needs to give balance in an argument when both sides make some sense. Would you ask people to give balance to racism?

Nevyn · 16-03-2006 02:44PM

Look if you want to debate this take it to humanites please.

BeardyGit · 16-03-2006 03:12PM

Oooops. Missed the Thaed's post.

Knew it was coming.

Sorry!

tirl · 16-03-2006 04:56PM

buyingout wrote:

i am currently in the process of buying a house with my friend. we have been friends for many years & he's a really nice guy. II'm not homophobic now or anything but there is a lot of rumours going around that he could be gay? I know that this shouldn't make any difference but i am having serious doubts about to go ahead or not. should i confront him with the issue or just pull out using another excuse?

I don't understand that if you have been good friends for many years that you would not know that he was gay or not? You obvioulsy don't know him as well as you think and if you feel you can't be honest with him from the start you should rethink buying a house with him

nitrogen · 17-03-2006 12:02PM

Simon1985 wrote:

in fairness how good of a mate can he be if you're believing what random people say about a bloke you know "for many years". What evidence do you have to believe what they're saying. Has you ever seen him been with other blokes...does he talk about other bloke in a sexual way???

People like you disgust me ....first mention of the G word and your bailing on a mate. As someone else said its not a crime .

Its no wonder with an attitude like yours that if your mate is gay he hasn't confided in you!!!!!!

Bollox!

I don't like your tone and YOUR attitude irritates me!

A friend of a great mate in the US only found out about him being gay through rumours when he had moved to Japan. My mate was actually hurt. He was even slightly mad that his mate would have thought any different of him for not telling him. The two guys worked together, did a lot outside of work. They even went on a trip to Amsterdam together. My mate, we'll call him Bob had no idea that Joe was gay. He heard some rumours, it got him thinking but he had no evidence. He never comforted him about it.

So, Simon1985: chill.

Nevyn · 17-03-2006 12:08PM

nitrogen personal abuse and unhelpful postings will get you banned from this forum. Keep it civil.
Do read the charter and abide by the rules when posting.
Thaedydal

nitrogen · 17-03-2006 12:43PM

Off you go. I don't think I can handle mods giving orders on their little power trips. It's like leaving notes around the house for your housemates.

Nevyn · 17-03-2006 12:57PM

nitrogen if you have an issue with the moderating of this or any forum take it to feedback as it is offtopic here.

If is your final warning, any further contravening of the rules as laid out in the charter will result in you being banned from this forum.
Have a nice day.
Thaedydal

getting a house

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