3-4 hour commuters who bought houses question for you

MorningStar · 14-03-2006 12:44PM #1

Hi,

A friend of mine has been saying that he bought his house far from Dubblin (where he works) becasue he couldn't afford in Dublin. I argued that he was not being honest as he could afford to live in Dublin he just didn't like what he could afford. He then agreed that he though the value of what he could have gotten in Dublin made him look further. The whole argument of quality of life came up and he said he has more room and more natural surroundings so it was better. I pointed out the 3-4 hour commute he has not really indicating a great quality of life but he siad the weekends make up for it. I can easily accept that some people would feel their quality of life is better but I think it is more logical that people will say this than admit how horrible somethings are at certain points. I litterally have 20 hours extra leasure time a week and that is not forgetting the convenice to do things like pick up a pint of milk without driving for 20 minutes.

I am just wondering if you commute this kind of distance is it really worth the savings on the house? I am looking for people who chose to live this way or thosing living it and who want to talk about the reality. There is no point discussing the governemnets inaction, greedy developers or any other reason for house prices. I want to talk about the reality of the commute quality of life and access to actual services that are ther (not promised one). Are commuter time increasing or decreasing the further you are out?

ZiabR · 14-03-2006 12:48PM

Well i was born and rared in Swords dublin and then when i was 16 my parents decided to get out of there and move to Cavan. They are living there ever since and i moved to Louth for work etc. But my father worked and still works in Dublin city and so has to drive from Cavan to Dublin most days of the week. This can vary from 1.20 hours - 2+ hours. He says the same thing, 'it does not bother me' the life is better here in Cavan than been stuck in the city with eyes always watching.

ronbyrne2005 · 14-03-2006 01:10PM

i'd never commute for longer than 45 mins each way per day,i'd move closer to job or get job near home.lifes too short to waste 2 hours each way or 28hours a week or 14% of your life sitting in traffic/car to get to work .celtic rat race 2006-spend half your life travelling to work and working there to afford a poxy house which you dont get to you enjoy cos your never there. my father left school at 16 worked in an average job all his life working 39hours a week for council in dublin,he could support two kids and buy a nice house in a nice area and my mother could stay at home and we were never short of anything,try doing that now! are we really better off nowadays?i think its just the rich that got richer and therefore a better standard of living.

netwhizkid · 14-03-2006 01:18PM

ronbyrne2005 wrote:

i'd never commute for longer than 45 mins each way per day,i'd move closer to job or get job near home.lifes too short to waste 2 hours each way or 28hours a week or 14% of your life sitting in traffic/car to get to work .celtic rat race 2006-spend half your life travelling to work and working there to afford a poxy house which you dont get to you enjoy cos your never there. my father left school at 16 worked in an average job all his life working 39hours a week for council in dublin,he could support two kids and buy a nice house in a nice area and my mother could stay at home and we were never short of anything,try doing that now! are we really better off nowadays?i think its just the rich that got richer and therefore a better standard of living.

Here Here! People rant on about the Celtic Tiger and wealth, I agree yes that in terms of figures we are much "wealthier" however try getting that €50 to buy the same amount of Groceries or other items that a IR£20 would easily have covered only 6yrs ago and still leave enough for a Pint on the way home. We are not richer today for every €100 earned per head €180 is borrowed. Everybody has a crap life and there is no services at all in this country, only a race to the bottom where Polish workers get €5 an hour to work renovating Moneypoint in Co. Clare. Irish workers would have got twice that ten yrs ago to do the same job. Now today Poles and Irish are getting rubbish wages for hard work and getting nothing in return from the Government, Low Taxes

I'd rather pay high taxes and have decent public services. Stealth taxes and the prospect of working yourself into the coffin is all we are faced with today.

See my Sig to see the culprits.

JimmySmith · 14-03-2006 01:26PM

Thers no doubting that once you are married and have kids a nice house outside dublin city is great compared to apartment living or even tiny garden living in the city.
I would say that a 3 - 4 hour commute is overdoing it a tad.
I think people should expect to commute for 1 - 1.5 hours each way. Any less is bonus time.

So, while its easy to move within commuting distance when you dont have a house it gets a bit more complicated when you get married, have sprogs at school and then change jobs.

I had a commute of 30mins when i bought my house. Changed jobs 3 years later and now have a 1 hour 10 minute commute when i have to go into town, but zero commute when i work form home. I had no control over this commute though really. If i couldnt work form home it would be a 2:20 commute every single day and not a thing i could do about it.

Only advice i can give is that if you are going to commute make sure its less than 3 hours a day. Thats tolerable, but anymore and you would go nuts.
Most people in cities commute for an hour each way anyway. They just dont count the walk to the bus, the wait etc when they are working it out. Even walking out of an apartment building now takes 5 mins

When i was in new york form the time i closed my apartment dorr to the time i was on the street was 10 mins. Same for the time from my office to the street.

netwhizkid · 14-03-2006 01:27PM

JimmySmith wrote:

When i was in new york form the time i closed my apartment dorr to the time i was on the street was 10 mins. Same for the time from my office to the street.

I hate to compliment those Americans for anything but New York is one model city of Public Transportation if ever there was one. The MTA does a great job over there. Everywhere is nearly adequalty served. Those subways are an excellent idea compared to the "luas" sytem we get here:mad:

MorningStar · 14-03-2006 01:37PM

FOCUS PEOPLE

I would like to hear from people who are doing this commute and get them to talk about their experience.

You want to complain about the economy or anything else there are lots of other places to do that.

rubadub · 14-03-2006 01:45PM

People are looking at it as bonus lesiure time, I see it as wasted work time. I was offered 2 jobs at once while in college and went for the lower paid one since overall I would be paid more per hour. That is taking into account travel time.
I take less than 1 hour in total to and from work. 3-4 is more common than some may think. Some people with long commutes tend to fudge the figures, saying it takes an hour most days. Do not ask how long it takes but rather "when do you leave the house". I used to fudge figures myself, saying the bus took only 20mins, but there was a 5 min walk to it, and a 10min walk to work, and I would have to be at the bus stop 5-10mins before hand to make sure I didnt miss it. So if somebody starts at 9 and says they take 1 hour, just ask "so you leave the house at 8?" then you get the real time.

So if I went up from 1 to 4 hours per day, that is 3 hours more which would be about €40 after tax for myself, so that is €200 a week in "unpaid overtime", €866 extra per month that could go on a mortgage. Over €10,000 a year and €312,000 over my 30 year mortgage. So it can be a false economy to get an apparently cheaper house far away from work. You may be better off taking a lower paid job close to home. I have not even factored in the expense of travel either, be it trains, bus, car. The car will need more servicing, use more petrol, depreciate far quicker.

ZiabR · 14-03-2006 01:49PM

MorningStar wrote:

FOCUS PEOPLE

I would like to people who are doing this commute and get them to talk about their experience.

You want to complain about the economy or anything else there are lots of other places to do that.

Yeah sorry in my post i should have mentioned that i went to school 40-1hour from my house and had to commute everyday. I think it effects the quality of life because you must get up 1.5 hours earlier than the person living really close to the job/school. This has a negitive effect i feel as you are always tired etc. I would not recommend anymore that 30 mins travel to a job/school.

Gandhi · 14-03-2006 01:55PM

What kills me also is having to change jobs. In the old days, when you got a job at 18 or 19 that you stayed in till you were 65, it was more practical to buy a house near where you worked. I have had my house not even three years, and in that time my company relocated by about 10 miles, and then relocated to Western Canada, so I had to get a new job (in another location).

All these jobs are out in office parks in the suburbs which are barely (if at all) served by public transport. We purposely bought a house in the city near lots of public transport, so we are within walking distance of two train lines and about 20 bus routes. A whopping 0% of these will take me to my office. My wife works in the city centre so she can at least take the train to work, so we can live with one car.

So to get back on topic, even buying in the city won't help if you can't get a job there. As more and more jobs move out to suburban office parks, proximity to the highway becomes more important than proximity to the city centre, if you want to buy a house with a short commute. If I could get a guaranteed job for life, I would buy a house next door to it the next day.

Oh, and FYI my commute is about 45 + 45 minutes of driving. But I would prefer a 15 minute train ride reading the paper, rather than 45 minutes of fighting traffic. Which, in theory (and in the old days), my location should have provided.

shnaek · 14-03-2006 01:56PM

I think many people take short term views. A house may seem a lot cheaper outside of Dublin, but when you factor in petrol and wear and tear on the car, combined with hours lost and stress caused I am not all that sure a house outside the city is a great idea. Though I can see why families would require more space for kids - but then if both parents work the kids end up never seeing them anyway due to work and the long commute!
Like MorningStar I prefer live in the city and be able to walk to the shops, restaurants and pubs.

Beruthiel · 14-03-2006 02:01PM

MorningStar wrote:

I pointed out the 3-4 hour commute he has not really indicating a great quality of life but he siad the weekends make up for it.

I cannot for the life of me understand how anyone can do this.
since I moved from Chapelizod the Celbridge, my travel time has gone from 15 mins up to 1 hour plus, traveling to work.
I love where I live now and won't change that.
I have been getting the bus but the service is sooooo bad to Celbridge that I am in the process of buying a car.
I have done the bus thing since last june, I hate it with a vengence and I feel my life is passing me by while I wait anywhere up to 30mins for a bus that may stop for me if it's not full up - the frustration of watching a bus drive by you because it's full and having to wait even longer has made the decision for me to buy the car.
I don't understand why anyone would travel all the way home just to eat dinner, go to bed, get up, go to work and do the same thing all over again. That's not living.

stovelid · 14-03-2006 02:05PM

I have a round commute trip of about 4 hours to work at the moment. However its the other way round for us, we bought a house in county Dublinand it is my current job that is a hike away.

I was (am) willing to do the commute for now, until another acceptable job comes up but i really didnt realise just how sapping the journey is. Not the morning trip as i just see it as time i would have been sleeping; but rather the lost time in the evenings.

stovelid · 14-03-2006 02:11PM

dude, provided you can get on it; at least you can sleep or listen to your ipod on a bus...try going at a snails pace in an LA-esque queue of traffic as muppets and other assorted twats drive by on the hard shoulder or try and cut you out to gain a clearly essential 2 minutes in the office.

Bitter, moi

Beruthiel wrote:

I cannot for the life of me understand how anyone can do this.
since I moved from Chapelizod the Celbridge, my travel time has gone from 15 mins up to 1 hour plus, traveling to work.
I love where I live now and won't change that.
I have been getting the bus but the service is sooooo bad to Celbridge that I am in the process of buying a car.
I have done the bus thing since last june, I hate it with a vengence and I feel my life is passing me by while I wait anywhere up to 30mins for a bus that may stop for me if it's not full up - the frustration of watching a bus drive by you because it's full and having to wait even longer has made the decision for me to buy the car.
I don't understand why anyone would travel all the way home just to eat dinner, go to bed, get up, go to work and do the same thing all over again. That's not living.

MorningStar · 14-03-2006 02:11PM

logik wrote:

This has a negitive effect i feel as you are always tired etc. I would not recommend anymore that 30 mins travel to a job/school.

Actually that is a huge problem with some of my friends. One of them normally goes to bed before 9pm to get enough sleep to go to work. If he comes out (has to sleep over with somebody) he falls asleep in the pub so he doesn't go out that much at all due to the combined hassle. I have gone out to his but the nearest pub is so far away it can only mean drinking in his house. Due to the long commute he also doesn't know any of his neighbours to talk to at all.
I really find the quality of life argument so far removed from reality that it seems to be absurd. If I wanted to be going to bed at 9pm and having a working day including commute of 12 hours and on top of that anytime I do something it takes masses of time (grocer shoping, cinema, video shop, etc...) I certainly wouldn't say that makes my quality of life better.

rubadub · 14-03-2006 02:22PM

stovelid wrote:

Not the morning trip as i just see it as time i would have been sleeping; but rather the lost time in the evenings.

But surely you have even more lost time in the evenings as you have to sleep earlier to catch up on that lost sleep, like Morningstar's mate.

ronbyrne2005 · 14-03-2006 02:38PM

yeah i think a vast amount of irish people are getting too little sleep during the week and then at weekend when they should be catching up on their sleep they go to pub or drink at home which actually meks you more tired and fecks up your sleep or else they have to get up early at weekends too for the kids and family things which they cant enjoy as much as they are knackered from the working week

MorningStar · 14-03-2006 02:49PM

Don't foreget that driving when tired is as dangerous as drink driving under many conditions. Some say more dangerous. A young family casues a good lack of sleep anyway so combine that effect as well.

ZiabR · 14-03-2006 02:57PM

MorningStar wrote:

Don't foreget that driving when tired is as dangerous as drink driving under many conditions. Some say more dangerous. A young family casues a good lack of sleep anyway so combine that effect as well.

Yeah this is very true, small children tend to keep their parents up at night and this adding to earily starts and late evening traffic is not a good combination.

Gurgle · 14-03-2006 03:14PM

JimmySmith wrote:

Thers no doubting that once you are married and have kids a nice house outside dublin city is great compared to apartment living or even tiny garden living in the city.
I would say that a 3 - 4 hour commute is overdoing it a tad.
I think people should expect to commute for 1 - 1.5 hours each way. Any less is bonus time.

1.5 hours each way is a 3 hour commute.

Any less is bonus time?
You think 15 hours per week is a reasonable time to get to and from a 39 hour per week job?

IMO, any more than 30 minutes to drive 20 miles is concrete evidence that the infrastructure is pathetically under-developed.

ronbyrne2005 · 14-03-2006 03:14PM

people forget how important sleep is for you, people who get too little sleep for lots of their life are more likely to die younger and suffer from more health problems

stovelid · 14-03-2006 04:04PM

Actually would probably just lie on like a lazy c*nt if i had the extra hours in the morning. :0) Just meant that it hurts more in the evenings because that when you chill out, do enjoybale stuff, relax etc

rubadub wrote:

But surely you have even more lost time in the evenings as you have to sleep earlier to catch up on that lost sleep, like Morningstar's mate.

LegacyUser · 14-03-2006 04:05PM

I really can't afford to live in Dublin. I would probabaly have to save half my wages for the next 2years, and thats just isn't possible.
I am probabaly going to move to Portarlington and commute because I can buy a 3 bed property, with 3 bathrooms, for €195k, and the same property would cost me twice that in Dublin.

rubadub · 14-03-2006 04:08PM

sillysausage wrote:

I really can't afford to live in Dublin. I would probabaly have to save half my wages for the next 2years, and thats just isn't possible.
I am probabaly going to move to Portarlington and commute because I can buy a 3 bed property, with 3 bathrooms, for €195k, and the same property would cost me twice that in Dublin.

Did you check out my bit on costs involved? WORKABLE time wasted rather than leisure. Depends on your job I suppose but if somebody was doing a menial job that they could pick up anywhere it is far better to work close to home and simply work those extra hours as overtime if you can, rather than spend the time and spend the money commuting.

magpie · 14-03-2006 04:15PM

I'd rather live in a shoebox I could walk to work / the city centre from than live in a 4 bedroom Dallas Ranch in Kildare/Meath/Cavan/Insert Name of Sh1thole here.

For some bizarre reason lots of Irish people in their 20s seem to think that buying a house is a lifetime investment and they have to have 4 bedrooms and a garage in order to have room for the kids they might have in 10 years time. As a result they're happy to be stuck in a car/stuck with inflexible trains/busses to get out to their dull sub-suburban identikit lego housing estate so they can sit around watching telly and admiring their 30 foot back garden through the veil of pssing rain that hangs over these dank conformity factories.

Enjoy your big houses kids, I'll be in the pub/cinema/restaurant/theatre 5 minutes after I leave work.

MorningStar · 14-03-2006 04:16PM

sillysausage wrote:

I really can't afford to live in Dublin. I would probabaly have to save half my wages for the next 2years, and thats just isn't possible.
I am probabaly going to move to Portarlington and commute because I can buy a 3 bed property, with 3 bathrooms, for €195k, and the same property would cost me twice that in Dublin.

Ok that is your decsision but how much is it going to cost you to commute? The time you spend traveling having value. The cost of a car and replacement of such car on country roads and distance.

The really big question is do you need 3 bedrooms?

Effectively if you have read this thread you are telling us that you are willing to kill yourself to have 4 hours to enjoy in the house on a week day basis (8 hours sleep+4 hours commuting +8 hours in work). You will lose friends and the ability to go out, put your life at risk etc... all for a house that you will spend 30 years paying off. Why do you want the house so bad?

magpie · 14-03-2006 04:23PM

with 3 bathrooms

In fairness I would rather kill myself than have to live somewhere that didn't have at least 3 bathrooms.

Siogfinsceal · 14-03-2006 04:37PM

id hate to live in dublin tbh dont like cities. I live near naas and drive to saggart it takes 40 minutes. Yet I can drive from leitrim to mullingar in less than that mad

_Kaiser_ · 14-03-2006 04:44PM

The problem here lies with the Irish belief (obsession is pretty close to the mark too) that you MUST own a house in order to be judged successful. There's also the "keeping up with the Jones'" mentality to factor in.

Personally I'm with the majority of the posters in this thread. Having a house is all well and good but not at the cost of spending 3/4 hours of your life each day in traffic (though ironically it took me LESS time in the car than it ever did with Diublin Bus, and that's reduced still further since I changed jobs in the summer), getting up so early and home so late that you're just knackered all the time, and having to commute EVERYWHERE, be it the pub, the shops etc.

In my mind there's no quality of life there...

MorningStar · 14-03-2006 04:49PM

Siogfinsceal wrote:

id hate to live in dublin tbh dont like cities. I live near naas and drive to saggart it takes 40 minutes. Yet I can drive from leitrim to mullingar in less than that mad

Well if you hate cities that is fine but if all your friends family live in the city and you work there you would have a problem. People have all of that in the city and move out based on "value for money" and "quality of life" but neither exist for them.

rubadub · 14-03-2006 04:50PM

magpie wrote:

For some bizarre reason lots of Irish people in their 20s seem to think that buying a house is a lifetime investment and they have to have 4 bedrooms and a garage in order to have room for the kids they might have in 10 years time.

Yes, seems that way. you can buy and sell the house as the family grows, keeping a big house warm costs a fair bit, and cleaning it is more wasted time.

magpie wrote:

In fairness I would rather kill myself than have to live somewhere that didn't have at least 3 bathrooms.

time to give up the vindaloos

3-4 hour commuters who bought houses question for you

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