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Very interesting rumour RE: immigrants

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Comments

  • #242
    Freelancer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 769 ✭✭✭Freelancer


    Delboy05 wrote:
    "However even so his figures of >.5 billion is bull****. I read both stories he posted. The totals do in fact factor in what he claimed it wasn't. "
    ......I stated the figure of at least 0.5billion a year was my own conservative estimate...made that clear from the start.


    So you lied and made it up? fair enough.

    Delboy. LEARN TO USE QUOTE TAGS.
    I refer to my original link ,,,from the UNHCR, not the IRC....in 03, 25% of all nigeriam asylum claims in the western world were in good old dear ireland. Check back to the link...stop making up ****, stop living off the goodness of your heart and look at the stats. I have given you the stats....you all have ignored my questions on aslyum...thats ur perogative, but it;s asomine to question the type of country that we are facing....and if you lot had your way the irish would be up the swanee with 20 years.

    Repost the link.
    May i also add.....how sad that when i provide stats, the nore frugal amongst u complain about fee based websites.The irish times is the leading newspaper in this country....i disagree with most of what they print, but i still buy it.....so buy up or shut up....or start quoting some stats of your own for a change

    That is frankly horseshít. If these stats are so well known you can find another source. Complaining that I'm frugal because I don't subscribe to the online version of a paper I also buy, gee, pay for something twice?

    Grow up. You're spouting stuff you cannot support, and when challenged you claim statistics on a website I cannot read back up your nonsense.


  • #243
    dbnavan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭dbnavan


    Found this site http://www.africamigration.com/archive_01/j_komolafe_searching.htm

    Too much to quote from if anyone is interested they can read it themselves but its a very good report on why Ireland is choosen by so many Nigerians. It does mention some negitives which I am sure a certain few will pick up on but it also talks about there plight for a better way of life.


  • #244
    Tha Gopher
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,799 ✭✭✭Tha Gopher


    jay-me wrote:
    Also i have never been offered "crack" or "weed" on moore street by an irish person and coke is gettin more widespread too since we accumalated so many asylum seekers (and i use the word lightly)


    In fairness nobody has ever offered me drugs on Moore Street. It must be great fun being a cop these days, 98% of young men arrested in posession of drugs in Dublin will reply "some black lad on Moore Street" when asked who sold them.

    Now, the cops should be wise enough to know that Nigerians generally do not sell Morrocan soapbar hash. Weed yes. Coke, sometimes (more often crack). But tbh most of the cocaine used by Irish people came through Southern Spain. Some Nigerians do indeed import better quality cocaine to make crack (the diluted stuff that arrives in Ireland through Spain isnt really suitable)

    Have had a few East Europeans offer me pills and speed though.


  • #245
    Duras
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 432 ✭✭Duras


    Freelancer wrote:
    Come on now, asking the government to issue a press release every time dave down the pub announces authoritively that the reason that theres less swans on the canal is them Romanians are eating 'em would;

    A) run the press office ragged.

    B) Give credence to this nonsense.

    It happened in France some years back. Gypsies eating swans that is.

    I would also add this piece of info:
    few months there was a letter in the Galway Independent about this Galway person who noticed in the middle of the night an "Eastern European" guy who was carring a swan with him. Unfortunately I couldn't find an online archive of the newspaper to show you the full letter.

    Here are the facts:
    - it was reported that gypsies eat swans
    - a person was noticed carrying a swan
    - gypsies live in Ireland.

    Now you decide if it's A or B.


  • #246
    flogen
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 10,250 Mod ✭✭✭✭flogen


    Gypsies eat swans now? What exactly is a gypsy by your definition. Is it defined by where they come from or the way they live?


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  • #247
    Duras
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 432 ✭✭Duras


    It's not "now". As I said this is an old story. It is not that ALL the gypsies do it but that there was a case when they were found that they do it. That was in France it was years back and it was quite a big subject at that time. That's why it wouldn't surprise me to be some that do the same in Dublin.
    And by gypsies I meant the "Roma" gypsies, the one that migrated from India to Eastern Europe in 12th century or something.


  • #248
    Freelancer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 769 ✭✭✭Freelancer


    Duras wrote:
    It's not "now". As I said this is an old story. It is not that ALL the gypsies do it but that there was a case when they were found that they do it. That was in France it was years back and it was quite a big subject at that time. That's why it wouldn't surprise me to be some that do the same in Dublin.
    And by gypsies I meant the "Roma" gypsies, the one that migrated from India to Eastern Europe in 12th century or something.


    A) A letter in the Examiner, you say! Several years ago? No source or evidence. Well I'm convinced.

    B) They eat horse in france.


  • #249
    dbnavan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭dbnavan


    Lads we are going way off topic, am I to prosume this discussion is over?


  • #250
    flogen
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 10,250 Mod ✭✭✭✭flogen


    There was a discussion here?


  • #251
    Delboy05
    Closed Accounts Posts: 171 ✭✭Delboy05


    Freelancer wrote:
    So you lied and made it up? fair enough.

    Delboy. LEARN TO USE QUOTE TAGS.

    I'll try, i really will....hate to upset you. I did'nt lie by the way...I pointed out where the 375m came from and then said , clearly said, that I estimate the "cost to be over 0.5billion" for that year if other relevant costs were taken into account....where's the lie in that. Am i not entitled to make an estimate!!!!
    You can't just say that asylum cost 375m in 04 and leave it at that. There are many other indirect costs that have to be taken into account to get the full picture....gardai get paid for their work, prisons cost money to maintain, courts and solicitors cost money.....it's very simplistic not to take those costs into account.
    Freelancer wrote:
    Repost the link.

    Kiss my behind, if you pardon my french......read back through the pages and you'lll find it there, I'm not doing it again just for your sake...you answer none of the q's I ask you - i provide links and you now want me to repost them cos you can't be bothered to read back through....if you did bother you'd also not be calling me a liar in the first place as you would have read what I said.


    Freelancer wrote:
    That is frankly horseshít. If these stats are so well known you can find another source. Complaining that I'm frugal because I don't subscribe to the online version of a paper I also buy, gee, pay for something twice?.

    Grow up. You're spouting stuff you cannot support, and when challenged you claim statistics on a website I cannot read back up your nonsense.

    Whether you buy it or not, I don't care. other people on here have read them. Go do a search of other papers yourself. I've backed up my figures and I really don't care whether the likes of you believe it or not.
    You are not informed anyway on this subject, otherwise the Dept of Justice figures I quoted would not have been news to you....you would understand the Dublin Convention and how it's not being applied here in Ireland, and you would acknowledge the abuse and the astronomical costs that are in the asylum system here.


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  • #252
    Delboy05
    Closed Accounts Posts: 171 ✭✭Delboy05


    dbnavan wrote:
    Found this site http://www.africamigration.com/archive_01/j_komolafe_searching.htm

    Too much to quote from if anyone is interested they can read it themselves but its a very good report on why Ireland is choosen by so many Nigerians. It does mention some negitives which I am sure a certain few will pick up on but it also talks about there plight for a better way of life.


    I read that a while back dbnavan. Interesting to get a nigerian viewpoint on Ireland and the migration between there and here. I think it's written with rose tinted glasses though and is very simplistic - the idea that nigerian women came here, had their babies and left is just mental. Where did the huge numbers applying in McDowells recent amnesty come from??? - they had to be living here to apply. He quotes all these writers and authorities on migration which makes the work look professional, but leave all that out and I would have said this was written by a nigerian transition year student.

    But it's just 1 guys opinion, so I suppose it's interesting to read. I hope he did'nt get his doctorate or whatever it is, based on that piece of work, as it's very poor quality in my opinion.

    dbnavan - this is not an attack on you by the way- i'm just giving my opinion on the document in question.


  • #253
    dbnavan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭dbnavan


    Fair enough I respect that, nice to see a balanced view.


  • #254
    Freelancer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 769 ✭✭✭Freelancer


    Delboy05 wrote:
    I'll try, i really will....hate to upset you. I did'nt lie by the way...I pointed out where the 375m came from and then said , clearly said, that I estimate the "cost to be over 0.5billion" for that year if other relevant costs were taken into account....where's the lie in that. Am i not entitled to make an estimate!!!!
    You can't just say that asylum cost 375m in 04 and leave it at that. There are many other indirect costs that have to be taken into account to get the full picture....gardai get paid for their work, prisons cost money to maintain, courts and solicitors cost money.....it's very simplistic not to take those costs into account.

    You made a claim re the 375m, which you've failed to prove, and you've inflated it without any evidence to support it. In short you lied.

    Kiss my behind, if you pardon my french......read back through the pages and you'lll find it there, I'm not doing it again just for your sake...you answer none of the q's I ask you - i provide links and you now want me to repost them cos you can't be bothered to read back through....if you did bother you'd also not be calling me a liar in the first place as you would have read what I said.

    Theres eleven pages of your crap to wade through, all for a link. I cannot find it so I'll just work on the assumption this is another lie.

    Whether you buy it or not, I don't care. other people on here have read them. Go do a search of other papers yourself. I've backed up my figures and I really don't care whether the likes of you believe it or not.
    You are not informed anyway on this subject, otherwise the Dept of Justice figures I quoted would not have been news to you....you would understand the Dublin Convention and how it's not being applied here in Ireland, and you would acknowledge the abuse and the astronomical costs that are in the asylum system here.

    Nice, arrogant and dismissive. You've not backed up your claim, you've wavied me towards a website I can't read. And then sneered. You've got hot air and sweet FA else.


  • #255
    Delboy05
    Closed Accounts Posts: 171 ✭✭Delboy05


    Freelancer wrote:
    You made a claim re the 375m, which you've failed to prove, and you've inflated it without any evidence to support it. In short you lied.
    I have backed up the 375m for 04, and the 353m for 03...figures came from the Dept of Justice and was reported in the Irish Times. I provided links...maybe someone else on here wants to confirm this to this fella.....
    And I've pointed out where the other costs originate from and what, in my opinion, the REAL costs are....

    Freelancer wrote:
    Theres eleven pages of your crap to wade through, all for a link. I cannot find it so I'll just work on the assumption this is another lie.
    You put up such a good defence of your side of the argument...keep at it, I;m sure your winning over many people to your way of thinking!!!!! Link is to the UNHCR, even Hobbes has read it....i suppose the UNHCR are liars as well.

    Other people have posted on those 11 pages as well Freelancer....u might educate yourself if you read through them- or are all posts you don't agree with crap. And it's not good practice in my opinion to enter a topic and not read the earlier pages so that you know whats been going on.....you'd be better able to argue your points if you did read through them!!!!!

    Freelancer wrote:
    Nice, arrogant and dismissive. You've not backed up your claim, you've wavied me towards a website I can't read. And then sneered. You've got hot air and sweet FA else.
    I'm arrogant and dismissive.....:confused: you have not answered a single question directed against your side of this discussion.... You have offered damn all anything really, except attack other posts...you can't even be bothered to look for posts with links....:rolleyes:
    how is possible to discuss anything with you with an attitude like that. So post what u like anymore towards me on this topic, I won't be answering it....


  • #256
    RoundyMooney
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,910 ✭✭✭✭RoundyMooney


    It's a waste of time Del. I'm not looking to convert anybody either, but people will believe what they want to believe, and any common sense view to the contrary is dismissed. It would appear that blinkered PC, armchair socialist nampy pamby political opinion is alive and well in IE....

    The mere suggestion that a single asylum seeker is an economic rather than a political/humanitarian refugee, or that some of them take advantage of the system, or that, heaven forbid, they don't seek "asylum" in the first eligible country they arrive at, is instantly shot down in a flurry of demands to "post proof!"

    Hang on there now, I'll call up the oracle that is the Great Google, and dig out the data that no doubt the government has catalogued diligently. Government detail is not a reliable indication!

    1. The true figures relating to arrivals to this country, at least up to the time of the amnesty, were a political embarrassment. We have no proof that inward migration has not continued since.

    2. The relevant state departments have taken lamentable action in the cases of deportees, preferring to sit on their hands for up to four years, while the targets of these deportation orders are left under the kosh. Once the aircraft is chartered to return these people to the flea pits of Lagos, suddenly the armchair liberals wake up roaring. The front page headlines then arrive with monotonous inevitability...

    And the State Departments are to be trusted to catalogue the problem are they?

    In the early part of this thread, newspaper articles were "accepted" by the protagonists here as "proof ". All of a sudden when said articles were linked to, Government press releases etc. were requested. What will it be next, quotations from the two tablets of Moses???


  • #257
    riskky
    Closed Accounts Posts: 28 ✭riskky


    Shock_treatment wrote:
    Thats because its not in our favour. They are hardly going to go shouting about it, when they know the Irish will go awol because we have beg for help of any kind. You would be doing well to find such articles in print. Even if you do find something related, it will be quite sketchy to say the least. In the town I live in, I've seen Irish mothers coming from the social welfare office with the shi.ttest of prams etc. they only have a certain allowance that the welfare will chip in. then the foreign mothers come out with the best of gear. its a farce.

    I've seen enough now in the last 2yrs to make me think twice.
    And from where I pray are these foreign mothers getting money for the best of gears since they are coming out from the same social welfare office as the Irish mothers


  • #258
    Jimi-Spandex
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,199 ✭✭✭Jimi-Spandex


    MorningStar wrote:
    THere are more Chineese Nationals in Ireland than the US


    As an Irish person who has lived in Dublin and now occassionaly works in Chinatown, NY I can safely say that you are speaking out of your ass. That is utter and total crap. I'll go look around for some figures to back this up at some stage. Couldn't be bothered now though.


  • #259
    ST*
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭ST*


    riskky wrote:
    since they are coming out from the same social welfare office as the Irish mothers

    Why do foreign people, you know to be receiving a social welfare payment have so many bank accounts?


  • #260
    billy the squid
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,811 ✭✭✭✭billy the squid


    Shock_treatment wrote:
    Why do foreign people, you know to be receiving a social welfare payment have so many bank accounts?

    Social welfare can be paid through EFT (Electronic Fund transfer) for which a bank account is required.


  • #261
    dbnavan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭dbnavan


    riskky wrote:
    And from where I pray are these foreign mothers getting money for the best of gears since they are coming out from the same social welfare office as the Irish mothers


    this is yet another generalisation that suits the posters arguement, there is a hell of alot irish social welfare system claimants then that are better off then me, I know of one man with 3 kids on social welfare bringing in twice what i and my wife do together! I see alot of people coming out of the social welfare office in brand name tracksuits and runners.

    Why is it that it is always in the poorer area's people(irish and foreign) seem to have the most expensive colthing,

    I also know a couple of very well paid Nigerians, one is lecturer in a college, one is a doctor. So what I at the end of the day there is people on both sides doing both. Maybe the social welfare system needs a overhaul, maybe people should be made prove that they are seeking work before they get paid.


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  • #262
    RoundyMooney
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,910 ✭✭✭✭RoundyMooney


    dbnavan wrote:
    Maybe the social welfare system needs a overhaul, maybe people should be made prove that they are seeking work before they get paid.

    I'll run OT with this I know, but that is the root of the problem. There is an "old guard" of dole spongers in this country, who are claiming for the simple reason that they started in the 70s and 80s when times were harder than today. That, and the skanger element, lacoste and nikes, parading down to the dole office every thursday or whatever).

    Why in the name of God are these people being subsidised by the state, at the expense of those who genuinely *cannot* work, and those that are gainfully employed?


  • #263
    dbnavan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭dbnavan


    RoundyMooney wrote:
    at the expense of those who genuinely *cannot* work


    Well this will probably take the OP way off topic maybe I should open a new thread, please advise. on this but a major problem as I see it is social welfare payments are kept low to make people want to go and find work which I understand, however, the people who loose out because of this are the people who cannot work, ie health reasons, disability etc. they are given the same basic payment. I believe they should be classed differently and given a acceptable cost of living rate. at least a rate which will match that of someone on a 40 hour week on minimum wage.


  • #264
    RoundyMooney
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,910 ✭✭✭✭RoundyMooney


    Dead right there db. That's a point that often gets missed....

    Mods, if we need a new thread 'ere let us know...


  • #265
    dbnavan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭dbnavan


    No need new thread here,

    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2054871525


    would love peoples opinions


  • #266
    ST*
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭ST*


    billy the squid wrote:
    Social welfare can be paid through EFT (Electronic Fund transfer) for which a bank account is required.


    Ok I know this - you missed what I said. you need one account to be paid into. I was waiting for the atm last week when a foreign lady was taking money out. she took four different cards out, and withdrew money from them all. (and yes, she is on a welfare payment)


  • #267
    dbnavan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭dbnavan


    Shock_treatment wrote:
    Ok I know this - you missed what I said. you need one account to be paid into. I was waiting for the atm last week when a foreign lady was taking money out. she took four different cards out, and withdrew money from them all. (and yes, she is on a welfare payment)


    You know this person personally? Was it all social Welfare Money? was they all her cards, I often carry my wifes card and have 2 of my own(Student account and savings) so I can see why I would withdraw money with 3 different cards at 1 time, I am s/w cause I am disabled and at college and my wife works.

    So I suppose someone looking at me knowing i dont work might think it strange I'd have 3 cards and be able to use them all at once.


  • #268
    IDMUD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 122 ✭✭IDMUD


    dbnavan wrote:
    this is yet another generalisation that suits the posters arguement, there is a hell of alot irish social welfare system claimants then that are better off then me, I know of one man with 3 kids on social welfare bringing in twice what i and my wife do together! I see alot of people coming out of the social welfare office in brand name tracksuits and runners.

    I'm sorry but HAHA! Would wearing a tracksuit be any indication of monetary wealth? It's like putting a sign around your neck that says "I'm white trash"


  • #269
    dbnavan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,610 ✭✭✭dbnavan


    IDMUD wrote:
    I'm sorry but HAHA! Would wearing a tracksuit be any indication of monetary wealth? It's like putting a sign around your neck that says "I'm white trash"

    I dont really get where ur coming from, I pretty good level of income and I cant afford to spend 80 or 90 euro on a tracksuit or pair of runners.


  • #270
    IDMUD
    Closed Accounts Posts: 122 ✭✭IDMUD


    dbnavan wrote:
    I dont really get where ur coming from, I pretty good level of income and I cant afford to spend 80 or 90 euro on a tracksuit or pair of runners.

    Well that depends on your definition of good level of income don't it?

    In my eyes someone wearing a tracksuit around town is borderline white trash. It's not the most stylish clothing if you get what I mean.


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  • #271
    ST*
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,735 ✭✭✭ST*


    dbnavan wrote:
    You know this person personally? Was it all social Welfare Money?

    Yes it is social welfare, she lives on my street. I talk to her from time to time - shes actually a lone parent.


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