Very interesting rumour RE: immigrants

Boggle · 05-01-2006 11:53AM

astec123 wrote:

Also I have had that in this country as it has proved to be the most racist country I have ever been to,

Have you ever lived in a foreign country? And I mean lived in and not visited... Well I've live in a couple and I can assure you that racism is not restricted to Ireland and in fact other countries are much more racist than we can ever manage...

Not sure if we are the most racist overall but certainly listed as the most racist in relation to the traveller community.

Is it racist to dislike a community because nigh on every experience you've had with them has been bad? What are you supposed to do? Pretend to have respect for their culture because its the PC thing to do??

MorningStar · 05-01-2006 11:57AM

Hobbes wrote:

There has been quite a drugs trade in Ireland easily longer then my existance on this planet. Are you saying the minorities are stealing our criminals jobs? shocking! :v:

Actually that is a problem the vacum left by the IRA is being filled by foreign nationals. They are will to do different types of crime that were to an extent prevented by the IRA. Crack is directly linked to Nigerian gangs so a new plague is directly connected to how we have dealt with things.
THe actual granted asylum is not the full figures either I remeber reading about how the high rate of failed attempts actually results in people leaving the country. I don'ty know the figuers but ahigh percentage stay and are not found. These people are criminals and to survive they must do work and the work they can do is illegal work. Not so bad if all we are talking about is the black economy but we are talking about criminal work.

Delboy05 · 05-01-2006 11:57AM

Quote-Delboy05:
have cost us a fortune (at least 0.5billion a year for the last 4 years, lesser amounts for the preceeding years - and this for a max of 30,000-40,000 in total !!!!!!)

Quote Hobbs:
That figure seems excessive even by my estimates. That would be mean we are spending 125,000,000 a year on Asylum seekers. I haven't seen any figure even remotely that high. I have seen calls that the current system in Ireland is the most expensive, however the largest portion of cash appears to be skimmed off by Irish people (eg: Accomodation) and on the appeals process.

Last year, direct asylum costs were 375m. In 03 they were 340m. That does not include the costs of Garda time spent on asylum seekers, prison costs, the costs of asylum seekers who were turned down but managed to have children and now live on benefits, time and costs wasted by the courts on asylum hearings and appeals, grants to the various and numerous support groups etc....I am looking at the big picture here, as you have to with this subject.

Quote Delboy05:
As I said there are people in this country who were never happy that it was 90% native - they'll only be happy when 2030 arrives and about 30% of the population is made up of eastern europeam/chinese/african...becuase anything irish = bad, anything foreign = good.

Quote Hobbes:
Again your figure seems off. If anything the amount of asylum seekers is descreaing. Also you talk about Chinese who are mainly students, so they don't even actually live here, yet we take thier money.

This was a general statement on this country's future and my views on how I believe people like you would perfer things to be. The CSO have stated that by 2025 at current immigration patterns, that 25% of the south of ireland will be of the ethnic mix I stated. Maybe the CSO are racists too!!!!!
The chinese students work their arses off here - I agree and I'm thankful for it....they don't come in, claim asylum and stick their hand out looking for whatever is free - but, and there is always a but, the student visa situation in this country is a joke. there is simply not enough college places for all these students - what is happening is that the chinese are coming for 2 years studying with max 20 hours a week work, but are staying indefinitely. the govt. turns a blind eye as IBEC lobby them to do so, for the cheap labour. No one sees the bigger picture and the problems immigration leads to....look at Germany and the Turks, look at france and the north africans, look at the Brits and the pakistanis, look at Holland- the most tolerant, laid back country in europe and the problems they are having and how they are now trying to close the stable door after the horse has long bolted. No euro country has ever properly handled immigration and by God, we certainly won't...see how good our new Luas line is, 2 years after been put down. Unlimitied immigration/asylum seeking is bad for any country.

Dermington · 05-01-2006 11:58AM

C_Breeze wrote:

pure racism. Damn Nazis

i am so f*cking sick of everyone branding everything as being a racist comment.

idiot

dbnavan · 05-01-2006 11:58AM

meditraitor wrote:

Why is it that these "asylum seekers" didnt seek asylum in the countries they passed through on the way to Ireland? EG France , UK, Spain, etc

This one puzzles me?

I think you'll find they do

table6.gif

meditraitor · 05-01-2006 12:05PM

dbnavan wrote:

I think you'll find they do

table6.gif

No offense ourlad but that table bears no relation to my comment whatsoever, please feel free to explain why you thought this table is of help to my query.

MorningStar · 05-01-2006 12:05PM

meditraitor wrote:

Why is it that these "asylum seekers" didnt seek asylum in the countries they passed through on the way to Ireland? EG France , UK, Spain, etc

This one puzzles me?

Nobody will answer this. I don't get why they don't say why. There are NGOs helping people enter this country too. One way to get me to not donate to a charity is to here they arrange travel for people to Ireland as opposed to safety.

jay-me · 05-01-2006 12:09PM

I'm not racist i hate everyone equally..

dbnavan · 05-01-2006 12:10PM

meditraitor wrote:

No offense ourlad but that table bears no relation to my comment whatsoever, please feel free to explain why you thought this table is of help to my query.

No problem, no offense taken, you said

Why is it that these "asylum seekers" didnt seek asylum in the countries they passed through on the way to Ireland? EG France , UK, Spain, etc

the table clearly shows that France , UK, Spain, etc do take "asylum seekers" every country in the EU must take in a certain amount based on its size and population

Hobbes · 05-01-2006 12:10PM

meditraitor wrote:

Show me this report!

http://www.nccri.ie/travellr.html

About three quarters the way down refers to the reports in question. The reports are somewhat old though so I'd like to see a more up to date version.

So I had a look for something along that lines too.
US State report:
http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2004/41687.htm

There is also this on general stuff overall.
http://www.iccl.ie/minorities/race/growthracism.html

Again a little dated but I am sure based on all the threads I am seeing that racism is clearly in a decline. :rolleyes:

dbnavan · 05-01-2006 12:20PM

if my calculations are correct based on the table i posted earlier, ireland only recieves .01% of the total amount of aslylum application in europe. i know see how hard done by we are:rolleyes:

ionapaul · 05-01-2006 12:21PM

dbnavan wrote:

furthermore..... With facts like Asylum seekers are accommodated in full-board accommodation centres across Ireland, and receive 19 Euro per adult per week, and 9.5 Euro per child and child benefit. Discretionary needs payments can also be provided in exceptional circumstances. is it any wonder asylum seekers turn to illegal means 19 euro a week!!! Wouldnt buy a sandwich and a cup of coffee every day, give these people some dignity!

Are you joking? Given that they are getting their meals paid for (by you and I and all other taxpayers), as well as their accomodation, why do they need an additional sandwich and cup of coffee a day on the Irish taxpayer?! What obligation exactly do you think the state of Ireland owes these people above and beyond what we are giving? And if they are unsatisfied with the state of things does that justify turning to crime? I would have thought they might be grateful at their acceptance into the asylum seeker process (presumably they have been the victims of political or other oppression in their native countries, rather than being economic refugees) and thus have their dignity intact.

I was promised a life living the 'Irish dream' but here I am at 29 without my Ferrari and supermodel girlfriend, maybe I'll turn to crime myself, everyone will understand that my unfulfilled expectations drove me to it!

jay-me · 05-01-2006 12:22PM

Its ok now while its in the early stages but give it time and you will see racism there will be killings.....

Hobbes · 05-01-2006 12:23PM

Delboy05 wrote:

Last year, direct asylum costs were 375m. In 03 they were 340m.

Those are interesting figures. Where are they reported? That would mean for year 04+02 we spent negative 100m or there abouts?

That does not include the costs of ...

If it doesn't include those costs what exact costs are you referring to then?

This was a general statement on this country's future and my views on how I believe people like you would perfer things to be. The CSO have stated that by 2025 at current immigration patterns, that 25% of the south of ireland will be of the ethnic mix I stated. Maybe the CSO are racists too!!!!!

Again can you point me to where on the CSO site you got this fact from? I ask because I checked the site and used thier cool projection system (which doesn't cater for minorities).

http://www.cso.ie/px/pxeirestat/Dialog/varval.asp?ma=PEEL1&ti=Projected%20Population%20by%20Sex,%20Age%20Group,%20Criteria%20for%20Population%20Projection%20and%20LongInt&path=../Database/EireStat/Population%20Estimates/&lang=1

The highest figure it estimates for 2025 is 4.6 million population. Now if if 25% of the population were to be ethinic mix then it would mean that there would be a 5 million population by 2025 (that is assuming that current population remained static for all those years). Or I could read it the other way that we will have a huge massive (and I mean massive) decline in the Irish population. There is nothing to suggest this is happening.

So if you have that link please send it on, sounds interesting to read.

Hobbes · 05-01-2006 12:24PM

ionapaul wrote:

Are you joking?

You might be upset to know then that the government is in the works of upping the 19 euro to 50 euro. Although nothing has passed yet.

ST* · 05-01-2006 12:28PM

Hobbes wrote:

the government is in the works of upping the 19 euro to 50 euro. .

An extra 31e pw? thats an extra buggy a week from argos with change

meditraitor · 05-01-2006 12:28PM

dbnavan wrote:

No problem, no offense taken, you said

the table clearly shows that France , UK, Spain, etc do take "asylum seekers" every country in the EU must take in a certain amount based on its size and population

So when these asylum seeker gets of the ferry and apply for asylum, should the first question not be??

Why did you not seek asylum in the UK or France(both countries with liberal asylum laws, almost Identical to ours)?

Hobbes · 05-01-2006 12:31PM

meditraitor wrote:

So when these asylum seeker gets of the ferry and apply for asylum, should the first question not be??

Why did you not seek asylum in the UK or France(both countries with liberal asylum laws, almost Identical to ours)?

They are asked that. However as pointed out earlier under an EU directive we are required to take on Asylum seekers from other countries in the EU.

meditraitor · 05-01-2006 12:32PM

dbnavan wrote:

if my calculations are correct based on the table i posted earlier, ireland only recieves .01% of the total amount of aslylum application in europe. i know see how hard done by we are:rolleyes:

Did you make this table up yourself dude!! even if you didnt it 4 years out of date,

Delboy05 · 05-01-2006 12:33PM

Hobbes wrote:

Those are interesting figures. Where are they reported? That would mean for year 04+02 we spent negative 100m or there abouts?

If it doesn't include those costs what exact costs are you referring to then?

Again can you point me to where on the CSO site you got this fact from? I ask because I checked the site and used thier cool projection system (which doesn't cater for minorities).

http://www.cso.ie/px/pxeirestat/Dialog/varval.asp?ma=PEEL1&ti=Projected%20Population%20by%20Sex,%20Age%20Group,%20Criteria%20for%20Population%20Projection%20and%20LongInt&path=../Database/EireStat/Population%20Estimates/&lang=1

The highest figure it estimates for 2025 is 4.6 million population. Now if if 25% of the population were to be ethinic mix then it would mean that there would be a 5 million population by 2025 (that is assuming that current population remained static for all those years). Or I could read it the other way that we will have a huge massive (and I mean massive) decline in the Irish population. There is nothing to suggest this is happening.

So if you have that link please send it on, sounds interesting to read.

Hobbes, if you don't read the papers , thats not my problem, the CSO figures were out around November. There was widespread discussion in the media. Where have u been.

As i stated earlier your grasp on maths/figures is unreal....how do you come up with a negative 100m for 04+02, whatever the hell that means anyway.
For refernce, the 375m was mentioned by all the papers over xmas as they were the figures relaeased by the Dept of Justice. 375m (direct provisions and accomm costs only) for 10,000 people still in the asylum system....even you have to admit thats impressive spending....
The 375m is as I said is DIRECT costs only...accomm and food. I doubt it even includes the costs of the 400 odd civil servants who work on the asylum systems in this country and all the other costs I mentioned earlier.

DdNavan.......answer me this, please. Why and how do asylum seekers come directly to Ireland???? when we have no direct transport links to any of the countries they come from. I have no prob us taking in quotas from other EU countries...thats fair. But we don't as we have more than enough applying directly to us here.....WHY DO THEY COME HERE DIRECTLY and why do the pass thru so many safe countries before claiming asylum????
simple question...you have been asked it by other posters and have not given a clear answer.

MorningStar · 05-01-2006 12:35PM

Hobbes wrote:

Again a little dated but I am sure based on all the threads I am seeing that racism is clearly in a decline. :rolleyes:

Lack of knowledge and blind PCness will cause it too get worse as it doesn't address the problem.

Travellers are discrimiated against due to a their lifestyle and not really thier race. I can at least see they have the right to protect their lifestyle as they have just as much claim to this country as anybody else.

Foreign nationals on the other hand have no real claim to this country or special rights here. They should leran and be taught to intergrate into our country. They are guests and if they break the laws they should be deported. I am not talking about parking fines but things like fraud and drug dealing.

Unlike other countries we never occupied a country so we don't have the obligation like France or England had. We are not inviting people but we should be.

Hobbes you keep avoiding the difficult questions and winding around difficult parts by giving a different direction.

dathi1 · 05-01-2006 12:36PM

Unlimitied immigration/asylum seeking is bad for any country.

The most sensible comment I've seen on this thread so far.

meditraitor · 05-01-2006 12:36PM

Hobbes wrote:

They are asked that. However as pointed out earlier under an EU directive we are required to take on Asylum seekers from other countries in the EU.

So is there a cap in each country wereby when it is reached you can pass asylum seekers on to the next country within the EU, a little like musical chairs meets pass the parcel.

Why would someone who is only looking for asylum want to move again when they have found said asylum? a safe place to live? other than for commercial reasons?

This doesnt make sense,

jay-me · 05-01-2006 12:37PM

They come here coz its a laxidaisical government with wide open arms accepting them wouldnt u?

ionapaul · 05-01-2006 12:38PM

Shock_treatment wrote:

An extra 31e pw? thats an extra buggy a week from argos with change

Or save the difference for a few months and buy a banger down the country. W00t!

jay-me · 05-01-2006 12:40PM

Also i have never been offered "crack" or "weed" on moore street by an irish person and coke is gettin more widespread too since we accumalated so many asylum seekers (and i use the word lightly)

Delboy05 · 05-01-2006 12:42PM

Hobbes wrote:

They are asked that. However as pointed out earlier under an EU directive we are required to take on Asylum seekers from other countries in the EU.

Your are unreal....have you never heard of the Dublin Convention which is the over-riding EU policy on asylum seekers and how they must claim asylum i.e. in the first safe country they land in. I mentioned this about 5 pages ago............you are impossible to discuss this topic with.... you are very uninformed, don't seem to keep up to date with current events, and just ahve the same mantra....so I withdraw from this discussion as it's pointless. It'll be interesting to see who's right and to look back at this thread 20 years from now, in what will be an unrecognisable ireland

And Hobbes, for the record, if you want to be taken seriously, don't ever mention this crowd of lunatics in your posts:

Hobbes Quote :How about a political party then? http://www.swp.ie/resources/Racism%20in%20Ireland.htm

If they got anywhere near power, even the asylum seekers would leave the country....we'd all be up the swannee......

good day to u sir.....

jay-me · 05-01-2006 12:43PM

Delboy05 wrote:

Your are unreal....have you never heard of the Dublin Convention which is the over-riding EU policy on asylum seekers and how they must claim asylum i.e. in the first safe country they land in. I mentioned this about 5 pages ago............you are impossible to discuss this topic with.... you are very uninformed, don't seem to keep up to date with current events, and just ahve the same mantra....so I withdraw from this discussion as it's pointless. It'll be interesting to see who's right and to look back at this thread 20 years from now, in what will be an unrecognisable ireland

And Hobbes, for the record, if you want to be taken seriously, don't ever mention this crowd of lunatics in your posts:

Hobbes Quote :How about a political party then? http://www.swp.ie/resources/Racism%20in%20Ireland.htm

If they got anywhere near power, even the asylum seekers would leave the country....we'd all be up the swannee......

good day to u sir.....

lol@u m8

dbnavan · 05-01-2006 12:44PM

I am now leaving this thread said all I have to, the people arguing against me are clutching at straws, the conversation is turning into weather or not we should accept immigrants,

I will leave you with this, if it wasn’t so long ago you couldn’t get a flight out of Dublin airport, and it wasn’t Santa ponsa people were going to..... Now our economy has been built back up and people are coming back again, we even had initiatives to get them to come back mid 90's, Hopefully when these countries especially Eastern European join the EU and see better times I am sure these people would love to return to their homeland. Where they’re native tongue is spoken, and their friends and families are.

LOL…. Just anecdotally next time you hear a racial comment ask the person if they ever sung 'oh ah Paul McGrath' we had no problem with immigration when he kept the Italians out in 94!

Hobbes · 05-01-2006 12:46PM

Delboy05 wrote:

Hobbes, if you don't read the papers , thats not my problem, the CSO figures were out around November. There was widespread discussion in the media. Where have u been.

If the CSO released those figures they would be on the CSO website.

www.cso.ie

I can find absolutly no mention whatsoever of what you claim on that site. Thier projection program doesn't even add up in relation to your claims.

how do you come up with a negative 100m for 04+02, whatever the hell that means anyway.

You said .5 billion. Your figures quoted for 2 of the 4 years you cite is .6 billion. If we were to follow the same trend then Ireland would of spent 1.2 Billion on Asylum seekers. How did you get so off the mark on those figures?

375m (direct provisions and accomm costs only) for 10,000 people still in the asylum system....even you have to admit thats impressive spending....

While your figures still need something in more of verification I have already said that Ireland is reported to spend the most money on Asylum seekers and the most money is in what you mentioned, which incidently gets funnelled to Irish people from the businesses (that supply the food) or houses they own.

Incidently here is the English Asylum seekers pack they get when entering this country. Pretty much explains in detail what they get. I couldn't find the "Free cars and prams" part though.

http://www.ria.gov.ie/filestore/publications/A5-FINALISED_ENGLISH_INFO_PACK.pdf

And Hobbes, for the record, if you want to be taken seriously, don't ever mention this crowd of lunatics in your posts:

Well I did say it was just a 5 second google. So you admit then the other links are all fine then.

Very interesting rumour RE: immigrants

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