Very interesting rumour RE: immigrants

ST* · 04-01-2006 02:19PM

CiaranC wrote:

Maybe we could set up some kind of concentration camp complex for these evil pram sellers.

I've got a funny feeling you are paying for these prams as we speak.

jimmycrackcorm · 04-01-2006 02:21PM

dbnavan wrote:

As someone who is an Equality Officer I often wondered about this rumour of immigrants getting cars, I can now confirm following some investigation, it has never happened and is complete urban legend, immigrants DO NOT receive cars or funds towards them.

Is that because Equality Officers don't give out cars - only ministers do?

On a side topic, I don't actually believe that Nigerians should get Asylum here. Nothing to do with racism; I simply don't think that Nigeria is persecuting its people. I mean travellers here might plea for Asylum in Australia because they are persecuted here.

It's not like the Nigerians are in the same boat as the Kurdish for example. I do have a certain sympathy for Romanian Gypsies though despite a dislike of their begging.

MorningStar · 04-01-2006 02:22PM

dbnavan wrote:

So skin color has nothing to do with it!

I never mentioned skin colour! So you can assume racisim on somebody else. If state orgainsation change policies due to an increase in fraud from Nigerian nationals I'll take that as a warning that acriminal element is coming into Ireland from that country. I have said the culture them come from makes them likely to try to manipulate the system as is habit from dealing with a corrupt system. THe same as the way it was here in the 80s. Every nigerian person I met and been introduced to through my friends is involved in some illegal activity. Either drugs or stolen goods but the same can be said of certain groups of friends such as builder mates who avoid tax.

If somebody, no matter what colour, is selling prams from their house on a large scale there is something dodgy and Hobbes you should admit it sounds suspect but we don't know if the story is true.

dbnavan · 04-01-2006 02:23PM

billy the squid wrote:

When you finally do get a reply could you please post it up here no matter what the result, so as to shut this lot up?

If you want to 'shut people up' dont read the thread, its not like I am in your living room discussing it, and if you read back on my threads I put an offical repsonse to this 'urban legend'

CiaranC · 04-01-2006 02:23PM

Shock Treatment wrote:

I've got a funny feeling you are paying for these prams as we speak.

Not at all, Im involved in an underground cot racket myself sure. We smuggle the cots in from Taiwan with the help of the Jewish lesbian Polish mafia and sell them to the VdeP.

ST* · 04-01-2006 02:25PM

CiaranC wrote:

Not at all, Im involved in an underground cot racket myself

Thats alright so.. phew.
For a moment there I thought you were one of those idiot tax-payers

Hobbes · 04-01-2006 02:27PM

Shock_treatment wrote:

Mothers aren't willing to leave their childrens prams and buggys outside shops anymore for fear they will be stolen.

Ok you have gone from Social welfare to people stealing prams. Must be a pram syndicate.

Why would they need to steal the prams if they are getting them free off the social welfare? :rolleyes:

CiaranC · 04-01-2006 02:27PM

MorningStar wrote:

If somebody, no matter what colour, is selling prams from their house on a large scale there is something dodgy and Hobbes you should admit it sounds suspect but we don't know if the story is true.

You know, early immigration tends to lead to cottage industry. Have people no idea what goes on on planet earth at all?

Hobbes · 04-01-2006 02:32PM

MorningStar wrote:

If somebody, no matter what colour, is selling prams from their house on a large scale there is something dodgy and Hobbes you should admit it sounds suspect but we don't know if the story is true.

It certainly sounds suspect however in no way can it be proof that they are getting these prams from social welfare. Also "roomful of prams" means what exactly?

CiaranC · 04-01-2006 02:34PM

Hobbes wrote:

It certainly sounds suspect however in no way can it be proof that they are getting these prams from social welfare. Also "roomful of prams" means what exactly?

Sounds like exactly the kind of entrepreneurial spirit we want to attract to Ireland. Maybe we should get more of these boys in and ship the Daily Mail crew here out to Nigeria or Pakistan, where they could whinge and whine and moan and begrudge everyone everything to their hearts content.

MorningStar · 04-01-2006 02:36PM

CiaranC wrote:

You know, early immigration tends to lead to cottage industry. Have people no idea what goes on on planet earth at all?

Well maybe you don't if somebody is running a business from their home there are many factors they must consider.
1) Is the house zoned reidential and allow for business use
2) Insurance liability for customers entering property
3) TAX to be paid on goods and profit made by company
4) Safety standards of goods
5) Returns in the event of fault

Now they are the simple ones but if you were a landlord and somebody was running a business out of your property how would you feel?
There are laws in this country that protect people businesses and prevetion of money laundering etc...
Maybe you should understand what goes on in this country instead of thinking of a planet becasue your missing the detail that points to dodgy practices.

Hobbes wrote:

It certainly sounds suspect however in no way can it be proof that they are getting these prams from social welfare. Also "roomful of prams" means what exactly?

see above for how it is dodgy to start with then consider where would somebody get so many prams. I doubt they are from the social welfare but it would be possible, my wife has a problem where by every nigerian student said they had a child regardless of whether they did or not. They claimed childcare allowances. Policy change in investigation and sudden people who had children suddenly the children were back in Nigeria. Fake birth certs were handed in etc... It's possible prams were obtain by many indivuals doing similar but I doubt it, I think it was scam against Fas

dbnavan · 04-01-2006 02:37PM

jimmycrackcorm wrote:

Is that because Equality Officers don't give out cars - only ministers do?

On a side topic, I don't actually believe that Nigerians should get Asylum here. Nothing to do with racism; I simply don't think that Nigeria is persecuting its people. I mean travellers here might plea for Asylum in Australia because they are persecuted here.

It's not like the Nigerians are in the same boat as the Kurdish for example. I do have a certain sympathy for Romanian Gypsies though despite a dislike of their begging.

Your first comment, about me personally, makes no sense so I cant even reply to it,

On the matter regarding nigerians seeking Asylum. The international refugee council dictate what countries have refugee status, I actually was in Nigeria twice because my father worked there in the 80's, The levels of curruption there are unreal, we had to carry extra money to pay off police who would stop you just cause you had a car, these people know nothing else but curruption and it is up to us as a 1st world country to re-educate and help people coming here for no reason but to better there lives.

billy the squid · 04-01-2006 02:40PM

dbnavan wrote:

If you want to 'shut people up' dont read the thread, its not like I am in your living room discussing it, and if you read back on my threads I put an offical repsonse to this 'urban legend'

an official statement from both departments would iliminate the cries of "foul play" from both sides in this debate.

it would also put this "urban ledgend" to bed once and for all.

And I shall read what i chose to read on here ok?

Hobbes · 04-01-2006 02:40PM

Incidently the reason I ask about "roomful of prams". We own 2 prams and 2 pushchairs. Technically I suppose we could turn our dining room into a "roomful of prams", maybe the living room if we treated the push chairs as prams.

ST* · 04-01-2006 02:41PM

Hobbes wrote:

Why would they need to steal the prams if they are getting them free off the social welfare?

I threw that in there because you werent having any of the social scam.
You haven't answered me yet, where do the get the funderoonies for the wholesale plan?

Hobbes · 04-01-2006 02:45PM

Shock_treatment wrote:

You haven't answered me yet, where do the get the funderoonies for the wholesale plan?

Well first up being foreign doesn't mean you are automatically an asyulm seeker. So part of the story can't even prove that the person was/is an Asylum seeker/refugee.

But there are any number of reasons they could be selling them. And by them we also don't have a figure of how many or different types/sizes state of what they were in.

It could be theft (from shops, from people, from a lorry). Even if it is you are sorely mistaken if you believe that Irish people don't get up to this sort of thing.

I admit the story is unusual, however again if they believe they were up to no good why did they not report them to the police?

CiaranC · 04-01-2006 02:46PM

You haven't answered me yet, where do the get the funderoonies for the wholesale plan?

People in this thread need to watch more 'Only Fools and Horses'. Did Del-Boy have the flat zoned for business use I wonder?

dbnavan · 04-01-2006 02:47PM

billy the squid wrote:

an official statement from both departments would iliminate the cries of "foul play" from both sides in this debate.

it would also put this "urban ledgend" to bed once and for all.

And I shall read what i chose to read on here ok?

Ok so i dont work for the Department of Immegration however I do have dealings with them if you want an 'offical' response, ring them.

Never said you couldnt read it, just pointing u choose too, so must be keeping u entertained,

billy the squid · 04-01-2006 02:49PM

dbnavan wrote:

Ok so i dont work for the Department of Immegration however I do have dealings with them if you want an 'offical' response, ring them.

Never said you couldnt read it, just pointing u choose too, so must be keeping u entertained,

It is not me who started this thread. I am just telling the OP where he will find moer accurate information than he will find here.

and yes, I find people going for each others throats on the internet very entertaining :rolleyes:

dbnavan · 04-01-2006 03:02PM

Billy I think I misunderstood what u where saying, and may owe you an apology, we are debating a topic that is myth, however i can confirm to the OP that this is not happening and does happen, if he/she wants to confirm this himself offically he is free to do so under the FOI, just as i did.

MorningStar · 04-01-2006 04:12PM

dbnavan wrote:

Billy I think I misunderstood what u where saying, and may owe you an apology, we are debating a topic that is myth, however i can confirm to the OP that this is not happening and does happen, if he/she wants to confirm this himself offically he is free to do so under the FOI, just as i did.

I don't beleive the original point either but I will say when dealing with any government organisation it is what you ask that determines the truth you get. If you simply ask do asylum seekrs get x free?They might say no but ask them if a person who is seeking asylum is a situation A will they get x? They might say yes. Ask the social welfare do they pay peoples' electricity bill they will say no but if somebody arrives at the social welfare office with 3 kids and an outstanding bill that means their electricity being cut off they do pay! Prams could easily be an item where somebody could give a sob story about theft or accidental damage and be given a replacement.
It is all slightly plausable and that is the problem. The government are not coming out saying exactly what happens and doesn't. Mean while organisation such as "Residents Agianst Racisim" actively mislead new reports and do not come out and be honest. THe lpoor leaving cert student that was under criminal investigation was made out to be some kind of victim of unfair system where I think he should have been kicked out of the country for his involvement to criminal activity. Zero tolerance for people trying to become citizens just like the US.

dbnavan · 04-01-2006 04:23PM

MorningStar wrote:

I don't beleive the original point either but I will say when dealing with any government organisation it is what you ask that determines the truth you get. If you simply ask do asylum seekrs get x free?They might say no but ask them if a person who is seeking asylum is a situation A will they get x? They might say yes.

If someone arrives at the door of a Community Welfare officer in need of money, whether it be for a bill, a pram, or rent. it is at the discretion of the officer weather or not they get it, but they certainly will not give out 'luxury goods' such as cars.

When discussing matters like this it is important to consider the need for the good or service, especially when it comes to a situation where discretion of an individual is used.

Hobbes · 04-01-2006 04:25PM

A good pram is easily over 100 euros. I think they might get away with 1 sob story but twice would be pushing it with social welfare.

The government are not coming out saying exactly what happens and doesn't.

They clearly state that in no circumstances do Asylum seekers get car benefits.

jimmycrackcorm · 04-01-2006 04:26PM

Your first comment, about me personally, makes no sense so I cant even reply to it,

Really? As an equality Officer and after some investigation you can confirm that it doesn't happen. Is that because you personally are a decision maker on asylum benefits or because we are expected to respect your title as having more weight than someone who suggests something anecdotally.

I know people on SW who have been given money for items at the discretion of the welfare officer - including a sitting room suite at Ir£3000 (albeit in exceptional circumstances) so I wouldn't think it beyond the bounds of reason that Asylum seekers get benefits that are not listed in any goverment web page.

On the matter regarding nigerians seeking Asylum. The international refugee council dictate what countries have refugee status,

I couldn't find their web site. Google must not work! I did see another report on problems in Nigeria and remembered the story of relatives who were persecuted in Belfast for religious reasons. They moved but stayed in the North; Nigeria is a big country.

I actually was in Nigeria twice because my father worked there in the 80's, The levels of curruption there are unreal, we had to carry extra money to pay off police who would stop you just cause you had a car, these people know nothing else but curruption and it is up to us as a 1st world country to re-educate and help people coming here for no reason but to better there lives.

And I've been to India where corruption is also endemic and met Indians who have had to pay off police for the same reason. How many Indians make asylum applications?

I admire your enthusiasm but I think it would be better directed at genuine refugees.

dbnavan · 04-01-2006 04:41PM

jimmycrackcorm wrote:

Really? As an equality Officer and after some investigation you can confirm that it doesn't happen. Is that because you personally are a decision maker on asylum benefits or because we are expected to respect your title as having more weight than someone who suggests something anecdotally.

I am not a decision maker on asylum benefits, I work with Fine Geal Td's in a volenteer capicity in matters of equality which involves much research and not commenting until you are fully aware of FACT!

jimmycrackcorm wrote:

I know people on SW who have been given money for items at the discretion of the welfare officer - including a sitting room suite at Ir£3000 (albeit in exceptional circumstances) so I wouldn't think it beyond the bounds of reason that Asylum seekers get benefits that are not listed in any goverment web page

.

You answered urself exceptional circumstances

monument · 04-01-2006 04:51PM

monument wrote:

And at Racism Camp TM we were told Stormfront is always right. At Racism Camp TM we were told Stormfront are the good guys. And at Racism Camp TM we were told those leftie liberals were Leftie Evil Doers because they like to call us racist just because we make crap up about all those asylum people and those that should be deported because if they weren’t here my welfare payment would be bigger, and the government would give me a car and a house and a boat and a surprise!

And at Racism Camp TM they told me because travellers say they are diffrent race, that they should be deported.

And at Racism Camp TM they told me that the asylumers get free drink at home when they tell that place that gives me money that I called them asylumers scum in the pub, I never called them scum I called them scum bags.

Ok, so now I’m actually fully awake and haven’t had any painkillers/Lemsip today, I’ve just realised may not be as funny as I was thing it was.

dbnavan · 04-01-2006 04:54PM

jimmycrackcorm wrote:

I couldn't find their web site. Google must not work! I did see another report on problems in Nigeria and remembered the story of relatives who were persecuted in Belfast for religious reasons. They moved but stayed in the North; Nigeria is a big country.

My mistake the UN, European Council on Refugees and Exiles, and the country in our case ireland, decide what countries get status,

Even I can be wrong

RoundyMooney · 04-01-2006 05:53PM

billy the squid wrote:

such as?

this is up there with the "greyhound in the freezer of the chinese take away rumour"

Where are you going with this? Accusing me of being an uninformed gossip at best, or a rumour spreading bigot at worst? Heavy reading perhaps, but I suggest you carefully go through what I have posted in this thread.

RoundyMooney · 04-01-2006 06:01PM

Hobbes wrote:

I believe the defination of something that cannot be quantified or proven is called "fiction".

Do you always deal in such empirical terms

?

Hobbes wrote:

You have gotten the official information. If you don't believe that and believe an unfounded rumour more then there is no point debating the issue.

Now you're simplifying again. The official statement mentioned conviction, a wording I never contradicted. I said that the person concerned came to the attention of the gardai...

You have a political agenda, that much is clear from your published opinion in this community. I only wish to be impartial, regardless of where people come from...

Hobbes · 04-01-2006 06:33PM

RoundyMooney wrote:

You have a political agenda, that much is clear from your published opinion in this community. I only wish to be impartial, regardless of where people come from...

*Shrug* you claim he is was wanted on credit card fraud, fake passport and no insurance on his car. About the only thing I can find is him being stopped and driving a car with no insurance as reported.

Of course I can find loads of similar webboards comments that claim he was doing credit card fraud and fake passports but they are about as believable as your "unnamed source". Oh and the comment you quoted is referring to the Cars for free rumour.

Very interesting rumour RE: immigrants

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