I know it is cruel but...

Shabadu wrote:

Ha!

Tar, just shut up, please. We are never going to agree with this. I only have my degree in Culinary Arts with huge section on Nutrition to back me up, I know it can't *possibly* compare to a few on-line articles you have read, but what the hey.

What are you talking about with regards nutrition, but hey, I don't have a mother that has worked with this stuff for fourty years now do I?
She couldn't have possibly let me know anything about nutrition when I wanted to become a vegetarian and constantly when I was growing up? but also back to my first point, what are you on about with that statement?
Answering a point is more than flashing a degree and saying I know better.
If you claim to know more about nutrition(which I'm sure you do btw), make a point against anything I say, that's what i'm here for.
Plus the thing is, what has nutrition got to do with anything, both diets are healthy, it's about ethics, the environment etc.
Even if you care about the use of ossil fuels it is enough to get people to be vegetarian. Because of animal farming they are being used seven times faster.
As for you don't agree, so what? I'm not trying forcing it on anybody,that is my opinion, I was expressing it when people brought up PETA for no solid reason to dodge what actually happened in that video.
Do you seriously not see the correlation between how you believe that animals are not as good as humans and how people through history believed women are not as good as men, blacks as white, jews as the aerian race?
no? fair enough. It is just my opinion that it is but the same.
You seem to find it so ridiculous that an animal could be equal to a member of the precious human race, why?
I simply believe humans are arrogant in believing this. Oh we are better than you, when is the last time you created technology, started religions and launched nuclear weapons at people. If anything I think animals are above us because of their simplistic life and the fact that they rarely kill but to survive and because they don't know better. When people give an argument as to why we kill animals, it's because it is natural, we have always done it. When they are asked why we are better than animals it is because we have evolved to a technological point beyond them.
Humans are wiping themselves out, we are great.Give me a reason you are better than a dog, lets say, that doesn't boil down to saying 'oh we are smarter, better surely it cannot feel pain like we do.Our emotions must be so much stronger.
people are arrogant about humans being better so therefore murdering a human is the most serious offence whilst murdering an animal is none? none?
In fact, kill a million animals, they are too dumb too enjoy life...kill one human..oh man, youi in **** dawg!

continued as too long....

I am better than a dog because I have cognitive faculties, and the ability to improve the quality of life for all animals in a constructive way. That dog would be put down if a person wasn't looking after it anyway.

You have that ability hmm, do people use it? furthermore it does not make you better, it means you could live a better life in your opinion.
Please don't say, oh that dog would have to be murdered anyway without us'
we made it that way. Humans should feel guilty about doing that to a wonderful species not cast them aside as being useless without us.

You don't murder an animal- you kill it for FOOD. FOOD TAR. IT IS AT THE BASE OF MASLOW'S HIERARCHY OF NEEDS. Why don't you go convince a Bengal Tiger to "GOE VEGGIE!".

Food? The only rational reason to kill is to survive and there is no other option available. I'll agree with maslow to that extent, things need to throw thinks out the window to sate physiological needs but not as much when they evolve to a point. When you are starving would you just just discard a child to one side to die for food? Maslow says you would from that line of thought imo, but I am quite critical of the person anyway, a pet hate of mine. Maslow's views on combining religion and science are ridiculous, imo maslow is a religious/scientist fruitcake, oh an read all the counters to maslow please before what you take what he says as fact. . Ok to take the bottom rung of that hierarchy which is very flawed, imo, in general. First off, humans don't do that anymore. We do not kill for physiological need, wee kill for comfort(can't believe maslow actually put that in the rung), we kill to be happy theses days.It is not necessary, what he says is about what is necessary.
Maslow's theory applies fine to animals on that point. The rung firmly stresses on homeostasis, fact is, yes food is what that is on about but it has nothing got to do with meat whatsoever. We do not need it anymore even if we ever did, is is not one of the fundamentals that it once was, it is drilled into people that it is but there is no reason for it to be. Physiological needs can control thoughts and behaviors but they do not need to anyway, we have evolved beyond the point where we can justify anything on 'instinct' yet people do.
I would suggest you read about transcendental phenomonology(husserl is best) to try and look at things outside of instinct and phycologism
because these are humanities downfalls. Husserl is great for looking at things without prejudice to ones self and the self in general if you are able to think like he can- not easy.

This utter bullshít about animals having equal rights with humans. You can't tell a bear not to eat a salmon, or a lion not to eat a gazelle because they have "EQUAL RIGHTS!" The *reason* we evolved is that we changed from being omnivores who fed on fruit, nuts and carrion, to carnivores who actively hunted meat instead of scavenging. I suggest you read "The Naked Ape" by Desmond Morris for further information on hunting protein and it's efffect on the development of human emotion, society and culture.

hmf, I have read books on both sides tbh, but not that one. Arguements on what you say about needing protein to develop are varied. Acclaimed nutrionists/ scientists on both sides disagree, did we need meat for protein when it was fairly abundant anyway. Some say, even if it was needed then they would still go for the fact that it is not needed from meat now. I'll try to get that book if you say it has good info. The reason that bear kills is because it needs the food to survive. If I did I would probably kill too. The fact is, do we need to kill, no we do not.
The bear and lion have not, they need the meat to live. Does a bear go and hunt without food as an intention? It becomes hungry and wants to live. We have evolved as you say but guess what, we have done it so much that we don't even need meat anymore. Meat has actually become more of a loss than a gain as far as resources spent goes.Be it water, electricity, everything. We simply do not need it anymore, we are evolving constantly. Our ancestors needed meat you say, they probably did to survive- We don't.

Our physiology has changed we have become so dependent on some essential nutrients we get from meat, namely the Omega Fatty acids.

Did you know that the only time the human body creates omega oils is when we breastfeed? It is absolutely essential to developing the newborns mind. We can't synthesise these oils any other way, so we must try to find them in nature, in oily fish, and flax.

Ok yes I know about them and everything they do for a child especially, you say you got that other info from that book? or is from your course? it is incorrect.
Some fatty acid basics I learned in biology and reading general things, looked at the needs of the body in particular due to my needs,
You are right about us not being able to create linolenic and linoleic acids in our body apart from breast feeding. We need these in the in the normal functioning of all tissues of the body. In fact for omega 6, it is not a problem of having enough in your diet, The diet of the western world has become heavy in omega-6 fats which is quite bad for you.
Omega-6 fats are found in leafy vegetables, seeds, nuts, grains, and vegetable oils (corn, safflower, soybean, cottonseed, sesame, sunflower). Other omega-6 fatty acids, such as gamma-linolenic acid (GLA), can be found in more rare oils, including black currant, borage, evening primrose, and hemp oils. People infact get a lot of these.

OK Omega-3,
Plant Foods Rich in Omega-3 Fatty Acids;

Green leafy vegetables (lettuce, broccoli, kale, purslane, spinach, etc.)
Legumes (mungo, kidney, navy, pinto, or lima beans, peas or split peas, etc.)
Citrus fruits, melons, cherries.
Ground flaxseed.
Alpha-linolenic acid(omega-3 fatty acid) is found in many vegetables, beans, nuts, seeds, and fruits. The best source of alpha-linolenic acid is flaxseeds or flaxseed oil. More concentrated sources can be found in oils such as canola, soybean, walnut, and wheat germ. Omega-3 fatty acids can be found in smaller quantities in nuts, seeds, and soy products, as well as beans, vegetables, and whole grains.

Table of natural oils,
Omega-3 Content of Natural Oils

Flaxseed 53-62%
Linseed 53%
Canola 11%
Walnut 10%
Wheat germ 7%
Soybean 7%

We need little omega-3 oil anyway. A teaspoon of flaxseed oil in a day adequatlely meets the RDA. It is another anti-vegetarian old wives tale, like protein.

As for it being needed from fish, sigh- needed from no animal.
You have heard that fish are good sources of essential fatty acids, common misconception. The high amounts of fat and cholesterol and the lack of fiber make fish a poor choice. Fish are also often high in mercury and other environmental toxins that have no place in an optimal diet.

Fish oils have been popularized as an aid against everything from heart problems to arthritis. The bad news about fish oils is that omega-3s in fish oils are highly unstable molecules that tend to decompose and, in the process, unleash dangerous free radicals. Research has shown that omega-3s are found in a more stable form in vegetables, fruits, and beans.

Whether you are interested in promoting cardiovascular health, ensuring the proper growth and development of your child, or relieving pain, a vegetarian diet rich in fruits, vegetables, nuts, seeds, and legumes can help you achieve adequate intake of the essential fatty acids.

Now if you disagree with anything at all in those facts about fatty acids I will give you a solid reference that has got nothing to do with a pro vegetarian argument.
If you believed what you do purely because of that book, tut tut.