George Best - opinions. (not soccer thread)

Funkstard · 25-11-2005 10:54PM

ArthurF wrote:

I thought george was from the UK?

He called himself Irish

Cat O'Nine Tail wrote:

There's AA meetings almost everywhere, and countless support systems.

I heard a recorded interview earlier with Best, and he was saying how it would have been impossible for him to go to AA. Alcoholics Anonymous? certainly one thing he wasn't

Mr.Nice Guy · 26-11-2005 02:25AM

ArthurF wrote:

I thought george was from the UK?

That doesn't mean he's not Irish. The UK is the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern IRELAND.

Why do certain people from the Republic seem to think that the ROI owns Irishness?

Of course, you might have just said that to wind people up in which case, kudos.;)

sprinkles · 26-11-2005 02:32AM

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

Wrong. It is an illness. It's unfortunate to see people such as yourself commenting on things you clearly don't understand. For an alcoholic to go off alcohol is not like a person giving up sweets for Lent. You can't exactly go cold turkey with alcohol.

I think people who say they have no sympathy for the man should be ashamed of themselves.

I wonder if the people who say such things will be as missed by the people of this world as George Best was? I highly doubt it.

RIP George Best. Gone but not forgotten. And f*ck the begrudgers.

Well said!

JackKelly · 26-11-2005 02:48AM

lazylad wrote:

He didn't deserve a liver from someone elses body who was good enough to donate it, to ruin with drink. what a dope! Someone who would have lead a healthier lifestyle would have respected the liver!

I cudnt care less about some muppets who are mad about him defending him. He got a liver that he ruined. Someone could have got an extra few years life but coz of his overrated status, they die he dies too but because he was a dope.

Your right to opinion should be revolked

TerrorFirmer · 26-11-2005 02:49AM

No-ones denying that he was a great legend in his prime and up to his death.

Contest the argument all you like lads, but the fact is no matter how great he was at what he did, no matter how much alcoholism is a serious disease, at the end of the day Best got a brand new liver, to replace the one he destroyed himself, and that probably was at the expense of needy people everywhere who hadn't an input into the crises they are facing from illnesses life threw at them.

I'm not blacking Best, I think he was a fantastic player and its sad to see anyone die, no matter what the circumstances, and I have alot of respect for the man himself and his family.

I know alcohol addiction is a serious disease. People fall in and out of it every day. If you kick it, fantastic, good for you. But Best never deserved that liver in the first place, and regardless of what was the dominating factor in his death, it was ultimately all his own doing and what a waste at that, having prevented someone else from receiving something so priceless that he squandered

Mossy Monk · 26-11-2005 03:12AM

Cat O'Nine Tail wrote:

George Best was a selfish man, who chose to put his addiction above his family and his own health. Alcoholism is something that starts out willingly

stop talking out of your arse because you obviously dont have a clue what you are on about

Silverfish · 26-11-2005 03:15AM

Mossy Monk wrote:

stop talking out of your arse because you obviously dont have a clue what you are on about

Title of the thread does say 'Opinions'.

Perhaps all the people attacking posters for their opinions should stop being so 'ignorant' , as they put it themselves, and learn that other people will not agree with you all the time.

eirebhoy · 26-11-2005 12:34PM

Silverfish wrote:

Title of the thread does say 'Opinions'.

Perhaps all the people attacking posters for their opinions should stop being so 'ignorant' , as they put it themselves, and learn that other people will not agree with you all the time.

I'm sorry but a lot of the opinions are rubbish by people with no clue what alcoholism is like. Calling him selfish for taking his own life I don't know. He got a transplant to save his life. It obviously meant something to him so to go and kill himself shows the power of the addiction he had. I blame him for some of the other things he did but I don't blame him for going back on the drink.

sprinkles · 26-11-2005 02:54PM

eirebhoy wrote:

I'm sorry but a lot of the opinions are rubbish by people with no clue what alcoholism is like. Calling him selfish for taking his own life I don't know. He got a transplant to save his life. It obviously meant something to him so to go and kill himself shows the power of the addiction he had. I blame him for some of the other things he did but I don't blame him for going back on the drink.

I agree but I would sasy that although he might have eventually killed himslef he actually didn't He died due to complications resulting from a kidney infection last month coupled with flu like sympthoms this month. If that's "killing himself" then there are a lot of people out there committing suicide as we speak.

scojones · 26-11-2005 03:33PM

Kersh wrote:

Hey Paddy20 , the rip thread is in the soccer forum.
Having seen alcoholism up close, too close really, it is a disease, but i know a few who have kicked it, and a few who havent (been warned he'll die too),
Best didnt try hard enough, i believe, if he did, he wouldnt have needed a new liver in the 1st place.

That's the most retarded thing I have heard in a very long time. No ****e sherlock, sure if he didn't drink he wouldn't have needed a new liver.

Alocholism is HARDER for some people to kick than others, JUST LIKE SMOKING (another addiction). Just because you know some people who have kicked it, doesn't mean EVERYONE SHOULD BE ABLE TO.

Get down off that high horse of yours, the height is affecting your ability to make sense.

George Best's 2nd liver did not fail, his kidney's did, and his lungs would not stop bleeding. He did not destroy is second liver with booze.

Some of the opinions in this thread sicken me, the majority of you people are very ignorant. It's not as black and white as you think.

sprinkles · 26-11-2005 04:18PM

sjones wrote:

That's the most retarded thing I have heard in a very long time. No ****e sherlock, sure if he didn't drink he wouldn't have needed a new liver.

Alocholism is HARDER for some people to kick than others, JUST LIKE SMOKING (another addiction). Just because you know some people who have kicked it, doesn't mean EVERYONE SHOULD BE ABLE TO.

Get down off that high horse of yours, the height is affecting your ability to make sense.

George Best's 2nd liver did not fail, his kidney's did, and his lungs would not stop bleeding. He did not destroy is second liver with booze.

Some of the opinions in this thread sicken me, the majority of you people are very ignorant. It's not as black and white as you think.

People seem to like basing their "opinions" on nothing more than conjecture...the snipets they hear fomr the good people who write for the star or sun or indeed on nothing at all. Some of the opinions in this thread are extremely ignorant. A man died. A legend.

HE DID NOT DIE FROM A RESULT OF HIS DRINKING

HE DID NOT DESTROY HIS 2ND LIVER

HE WILL BE MISSED

is_that_so · 26-11-2005 05:09PM

sprinkles wrote:

HE DID NOT DIE FROM A RESULT OF HIS DRINKING

This is the only point I disagree with you on. His drinking was what caused him to require a liver in the first place. Ultimately his addiction to alcohol was what led to his death even if it did not directly cause it.

ShiverinEskimo · 26-11-2005 06:11PM

I wonder how many alcholics need liver transplants, get them and carry on drinking and die as a result do we not hear about.

Lets face it, i'd be fairly sure that alcoholism is high up on reasons for needing a transplant - he went on the waiting list, a person died who had a liver most likely not to be rejected by George - yet because he is famous people want to jump on their high horse and proclaim it a waste of a liver. If I die and my liver goes to a recovering alcoholic to give him a second chance then so be it. Who am I to judge anyone by their mistakes? I've made plenty and am sure I'm gonna make a whole lot more. As someone said - its between him and his God now..

He was footballing legend who was a hero to every kid in his day. I'd like to think that in 30 odd years I'll be saddened by the loss of our generation's football heroes - even if none of today's footballers are even in the same league as George Best.

RIP George.

sprinkles · 26-11-2005 08:59PM

is_that_so wrote:

This is the only point I disagree with you on. His drinking was what caused him to require a liver in the first place. Ultimately his addiction to alcohol was what led to his death even if it did not directly cause it.

He died due to kidney failure and internal bleeding in his lungs. Notice the word "liver" wasn't included the previous sentence!

A Dub in Glasgo · 26-11-2005 09:04PM

Rest in Peace

Silverfish · 26-11-2005 09:07PM

sprinkles wrote:

He died due to kidney failure and internal bleeding in his lungs. Notice the word "liver" wasn't included the previous sentence!

Just Bam!! out of the blue kidney failure?

The suppressants he took to safeguard his transplant apparently ravaged his immune system. His transplant. Why did he need the transplant.....?

Because of alcohol.

Nunu · 26-11-2005 09:08PM

ronoc wrote:

Lack of compassion I think not.

I'd just rather be compassionate to someone who deservered it.

If this man was not an incredible footballer he would be one of the most reviled men on the planet.
Read my list of achievments. I would like to bet the same people gushing for this man right now would be making alot of negative noise if it was just some random infamous person in the papers.

What the **** are you talking about. Did I miss something

Was George Best a mass murdering paedophile or something? He suffered from alcoholism and you say that take away his footballing history he would be 'one of the most reviled men on the planet'. On what bloody basis? You have made a fool of yourself with that ridiculous comment.

Silverfish · 26-11-2005 09:10PM

Well, if your next door neighbour got a drink driving charge, ruined his first marriage, battered his second wife, and wasn't a footballer, I doubt you'd think he was a great guy.

I don't think alcoholism is a valid excuse for these things. It is a reason, yes, but does not excuse the behaviour. If a heroin addict mugged you, would you go 'Ah, its okay, sure the poor chap was a victim of an addiction'?

Nunu · 26-11-2005 09:21PM

Silverfish wrote:

Well, if your next door neighbour got a drink driving charge, ruined his first marriage, battered his second wife, and wasn't a footballer, I doubt you'd think he was a great guy.

I don't think alcoholism is a valid excuse for these things. It is a reason, yes, but does not excuse the behaviour. If a heroin addict mugged you, would you go 'Ah, its okay, sure the poor chap was a victim of an addiction'?

Don't confuse the issue. I'm challenging his assertion that take away the footballing side of things he would be one of 'the most reviled men on the planet'. It's just flippant and over the top.

bush · 26-11-2005 09:39PM

Cat O'Nine Tail wrote:

Alcoholism is not an illness, nor is it a disease, it is an addiction.

Have to agree with you, I definitely don't agree with the Alcoholism is a disease theory.

Nunu · 26-11-2005 10:05PM

bush wrote:

Have to agree with you, I definitely don't agree with the Alcoholism is a disease theory.

Its not a theory, it's a medical fact. Alcoholism is a disease.

http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/homework/a/blwhatis1.htm

This is an important point from this piece: 'This description of alcoholism helps us understand why most alcoholics can't just "use a little willpower" to stop drinking. He or she is frequently in the grip of a powerful craving for alcohol, a need that can feel as strong as the need for food or water'.

Silverfish · 26-11-2005 10:18PM

Try some more.

Such as here. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1545723&dopt=Abstract

Or here. http://www.soberforever.net/alcohol-rehab.cfm

And here, http://www.bhrm.org/papers/AAand%20DiseaseConcept.pdf where it is stated that the 'disease' of alcoholism is a concept, not a medical fact.....that statement coming from the founder of AA.

So, my need for food and water is also a disease?

Is smoking also a disease? Drug addiction? Gambling?

bush · 26-11-2005 10:21PM

Silverfish wrote:

Try some more.

Such as here. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1545723&dopt=Abstract

Or here. http://www.soberforever.net/alcohol-rehab.cfm

And here, http://www.bhrm.org/papers/AAand%20DiseaseConcept.pdf where it is stated that the 'disease' of alcoholism is a concept, not a medical fact.....that statement coming from the founder of AA.

So, my need for food and water is also a disease?

Is smoking also a disease? Drug addiction? Gambling?

Exactly, it was invented by the AA

Atrocity · 26-11-2005 10:27PM

it is not and will never be a disease, no matter how many times people say it is.

Nunu · 26-11-2005 10:48PM

Silverfish wrote:

Try some more.

Such as here. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=1545723&dopt=Abstract

Or here. http://www.soberforever.net/alcohol-rehab.cfm

And here, http://www.bhrm.org/papers/AAand%20DiseaseConcept.pdf where it is stated that the 'disease' of alcoholism is a concept, not a medical fact.....that statement coming from the founder of AA.

So, my need for food and water is also a disease?

Is smoking also a disease? Drug addiction? Gambling?

Thanks for those links. Very interesting reading. I accept that I was wrong to say it is a medical fact that alcoholism is a disease. There are 2 sides to the arguement but I am of the firm belief that it is indeed a disease, not of the classical sense, that is influenced by environmental issues and hereditary disposition.

bush · 27-11-2005 12:04AM

Do you think fat people have a disease?

Mr.Nice Guy · 27-11-2005 12:21AM

Oxford English Dictionary:

- 'Alcoholism': "a diseased condition caused by continual heavy drinking of alcohol"

Of course, the George Best detractors are right, and the dictionary is wrong...

J.R.HARTLEY · 27-11-2005 12:32AM

the point should be made that it's not a phsyical disease, it's a phsycological one,
i am a little angry not really at geroge but at some of the comments made,
i would be critical of his drinking and his drinking after getting a second liver, i watched my cousin nearly die waiting for a liver and she never drank in her life, it was hard to stomach the constant newspaper reports of georges drinking on his 2nd liver, but where do people get off saying he deserved to die, or basically comapring him to hitler (i believe the term most revilled man in the world was used).
george didn't die from drinking out his second liver, he may have given time or he may have kicked the habit, how do we know so the fact is he died of an infection. stop being so bloody coldhearted about it.

sprinkles · 27-11-2005 02:49PM

Silverfish wrote:

Just Bam!! out of the blue kidney failure?

The suppressants he took to safeguard his transplant apparently ravaged his immune system. His transplant. Why did he need the transplant.....?

Because of alcohol.

I believe thats called side effect. Of course his alcoholism had a massive effect on his body but my point was that he died due to a kidney failure which he didn't bring on himself. Are you saying that everyone who has kidney infections bring it on themselves???? Cop on.

sideFX · 27-11-2005 04:02PM

Kersh wrote:

... which is why I dont buy the alcoholism excuse ...

Alcoholism is a is a disease and doesn't disciminate. It is only a symtom of the problems. They lie much deeper and need a lot of courage and help from family, friends and professional people to face and deal with. "The demons within"

I would dare say there a hundreds of people who done what Best did only they are not famous and in the public eye.

Some people are fortunate and find recovery and live happy lives. Many are called but few are chosen.

George Best - opinions. (not soccer thread)

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