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No Forward Planning - EVER!!!

245

Comments

  • #32
    Stephen
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,484 ✭✭✭✭Stephen


    Yep, they just moved the wanker to another cushy civil service job. in ANY other place, you would be sacked when its proven your qualifications are fake.


  • #33
    Angels
    Closed Accounts Posts: 440 ✭✭Angels


    sillysausage wrote:
    notsosillysausage doesnt have the same ring to it:p

    Sillysausage you are so right in what you said about forward planning there is none in this country. It's not just in Dublin & Kildare that this is happening in it's in Cork too big time. There is a small village called Rathcormac & up to 5 years ago was a small village that heavy traffic would drive through. This village has a very small primary school aswell & at the time they were getting in pre fabs to cope with new children starting school. This worked out well for them.

    Until one bright spark in the planning Dept in Cork county council decided to approve planning for 3 huge housing developments that figure is now 4, all of these houses have been built & some are still currently under way in building stages. But my point is there are God knows how many houses altogether in the village now the population has tripled here in over 5 years. This small school can't cope it's only got 3 class rooms & a pre fab. My rant is how the hell does the government think this school is going to cope with all these families moving into this area??

    And to think this planning dept will approve planning for huge housing developments but when it comes to the poor individual trying to apply for planning way out in the country they won't approve ya unless you know a counciller etc.

    Sillsausage good rant & great point made it's happening all over Ireland these days. Our government are makinga joke out of these small villages that can't cope!!!:)


  • #34
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 165,998 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Angels wrote:
    My rant is how the hell does the government think this school is going to cope with all these families moving into this area??

    Our government are makinga joke out of these small villages that can't cope!!!:)

    I just want to clarify that I do not necessarily expect the developer to be responsible for the building of the schools that are needed in these area's.

    It is the government that grants the planning permission, they should be responsible for the development of amenities.

    If they couldn't be arsed, and I am sorry but that seems to be their attitude to this situation, so if they couldn't be arsed overseeing the development of such amenities, then perhaps it should be carved in stone, that should property developer seek permission of over, lets say, 5,000 homes, they be required to include in their plans the development of One primary and One secondary school, which the state would then staff and fund.

    I realise I am probably asking to much of the developer, and the government, when I suggest such a move, but surely something along these lines is reasonable, and required? No?


  • #35
    dahooligan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 304 ✭✭dahooligan


    I couldn't agree more with everything said so far...

    I grew up in Portarlington, which is one of these commuter towns - and quickly becoming a dormant town as everyone who lives there seems to work in Dublin. Before the housing boom came along we had feck all facilities.. and now with 2000 to 3000 more people in the town and surrounding areas THERE ARE STILL THE SAME AMOUNT OF FACILITIES! How does that work?! From what I can see there has been one new development in the town... a new Chinese restaurant. Thats it. 2500 people = the need for another Chinese.

    When I was doing a project for college I interviewed a local councellor and asked him that same questions as the OP did.. why are we not making it mandatory for developers to inclue amenities when they go about building 100's of houses at a time? - his answer was that it was too complex an issue and that they were "tryin to work out a framework for mutual progression".. that was in 2001! Its a whole load of arse if you ask me.

    Why not sign a petition? Why not march on the Dail? People living in these areas mightn't see the problems now but they will when it comes time for kiddies to go to school (a la Celbridge). Bad planning is actually affecting lives, its making people travel further for healthcare, jobs, education. Its got a big role to play in anti social behaviour among adolescents - no facilities ie. youth clubs etc.

    Why don't we do something about it.. are we that apathetic that we won't bother cos it doesn't directly affect us in the here and now? Bah :mad:


  • #36
    Angels
    Closed Accounts Posts: 440 ✭✭Angels


    sillysausage wrote:
    I just want to clarify that I do not necessarily expect the developer to be responsible for the building of the schools that are needed in these area's.

    It is the government that grants the planning permission, they should be responsible for the development of amenities.

    If they couldn't be arsed, and I am sorry but that seems to be their attitude to this situation, so if they couldn't be arsed overseeing the development of such amenities, then perhaps it should be carved in stone, that should property developer seek permission of over, lets say, 5,000 homes, they be required to include in their plans the development of One primary and One secondary school, which the state would then staff and fund.

    I realise I am probably asking to much of the developer, and the government, when I suggest such a move, but surely something along these lines is reasonable, and required? No?

    That was my point the Government are not providing these amenities here at all & as i said the planning dept in Cork County council approved these developments i never blamed the developer (he's got a job to do too)

    Your point is fair enough about the 5,000 homes one primary & one secondary i would think they should do this but how do people in a village like i talked about earlier do this??:confused:


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  • #37
    joejoem
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,424 ✭✭✭joejoem


    In my opinion what our government needs is a few Michael O Leary types to take over all these issues, housing, transport, education, to our security services, in fact every aspect of government delegation. The fiscal side of our government should be under far more scrutiny.


  • #38
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 165,998 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Angels wrote:
    That was my point the Government are not providing these amenities here at all & as i said the planning dept in Cork County council approved these developments i never blamed the developer (he's got a job to do too)

    Your point is fair enough about the 5,000 homes one primary & one secondary i would think they should do this but how do people in a village like i talked about earlier do this??:confused:
    Oh sorry Angels, I was actually agreeing with you, your absolutely right!!!


  • #39
    RainyDay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,925 ✭✭✭RainyDay


    Nightwish wrote:
    ^^^ exactly!!! its very frustrating for planners to put forward the logical argument against why something shouldnt be built for many reasons but its the unqualified county councillors who have the power.
    The days of the councillors having the power are long gone, except in fairly rare exceptions. The real decisions are made by the council managers, on the advice of the planners. These decisions can (and frequently are) appealed to Bord Pleanala for final judgement.

    As a general rule, we get the politicians and public servants we deserve. It's no surprise that our poliiticans were/are corrupt, given the general attitudes in this country to tax evasion, insurance fraud, copyright theft etc.


  • #40
    dahooligan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 304 ✭✭dahooligan


    Oh and the other great news I forgot to mention was that there was a new (1st of its kind) shopping centre planned for Portarlington which was due to open round about yesterday. The deveoper who had planning permission for the centre decided not to go ahead with it cos he felt that building houses there instead would be more profitable (this is open to be corrected).

    So things in the area stand as they have been for the past number of years - people have to travel 1/2 an hour in either direction to do some decent shopping ie. to have more than 1 option. Its f&cking rediculous! :mad: :mad:


  • #41
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 165,998 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    dahooligan wrote:
    Oh and the other great news I forgot to mention was that there was a new (1st of its kind) shopping centre planned for Portarlington which was due to open round about yesterday. The deveoper who had planning permission for the centre decided not to go ahead with it cos he felt that building houses there instead would be more profitable (this is open to be corrected).

    So things in the area stand as they have been for the past number of years - people have to travel 1/2 an hour in either direction to do some decent shopping ie. to have more than 1 option. Its f&cking rediculous! :mad: :mad:

    I am glad you mentioned Portarlingon. I have friends there, and I stay there maybe 1 or 2 weekends of every month. I still cannot get over the number of 15/16/17 year olds drinking openly in the pubs. It is important to point out that Portarlington is a fairly small place, so the barmen know their customers, and their ages.

    Now I hit a conflict of interests here, because would I:
    a) prefer not to see them in the pubs and nightclubs and know that they where in the fields, street corners etc?

    b) Believe that if there were enough amenities that they would have an alternative option to drink, and could head to the cinema/arcade/bowling etc.

    Portarlington does not even have a cinema, which means that these kids have a choice between developing heavy drinking habits at an early age, or forking out €25 everythime they want to get a taxi to tullamore, or Portlaois, so that they can have access to lesuire and entertainment activities. (and obviously another €25 on the return trip)


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  • #42
    connundrum
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,563 ✭✭✭connundrum


    sillysausage wrote:
    I am glad you mentioned Portarlingon. I have friends there, and I stay there maybe 1 or 2 weekends of every month. I still cannot get over the number of 15/16/17 year olds drinking openly in the pubs. It is important to point out that Portarlington is a fairly small place, so the barmen know their customers, and their ages.

    Now I hit a conflict of interests here, because would I:
    a) prefer not to see them in the pubs and nightclubs and know that they where in the fields, street corners etc?

    b) Believe that if there were enough amenities that they would have an alternative option to drink, and could head to the cinema/arcade/bowling etc.

    Portarlington does not even have a cinema, which means that these kids have a choice between developing heavy drinking habits at an early age, or forking out €25 everythime they want to get a taxi to tullamore, or Portlaois, so that they can have access to lesuire and entertainment activities. (and obviously another €25 on the return trip)

    Its the same story in all small towns and isolated areas.. coming from a rural background myself I know that there is usually feck all to do - so the only thing to do usually involves mischief. People will say that sure when ya give em all these facilities then all they'll wanna do anyway is hang around street corners - yes some of them may still do that but I can guaruntee that most of em will make use of said facilities! :v:


  • #43
    WhiteWashMan
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,099 ✭✭✭✭WhiteWashMan


    sillysausage wrote:
    I am not sure if this is the right place for this post, so please feel free to move it to a more relevant spot.
    Has anyone here noticed the absolute lack of foresight in this country?
    It seriously makes my blood boil:mad:

    For example, take Dublin's commuter belt area's, Kildare, portarlington, port laois, Drogheda etc.

    All of these areas are currently experiencing a massive increase in population, due to the high house prices in Dublin, and the demand for more affordable housing within a reasonable proximity to Dublin.

    Ok, so thousands of houses are being built in these area's, and permission has been given for the development of thousands more.

    This means that thousands of people will be moving into these area's over the next 1-5 years, some of which will be young couples, who would have a view to starting families within this time span.

    Well it’s all working wonderfully, young couples etc can avail of beautiful homes, and affordable (ish) prices, and can manage to commute to work in under an hour, excellent.

    So what about Schools? Shopping centres? Colleges? Hospitals? Leisure activities, such as bowling, cinema, etc? Entertainment? Nightlife?

    When all these people move into these areas, where will their children be educated? What will they do in their spare time?

    No one cares; they just want you to move out there, and good luck to you when it comes to educating your kids, or enjoying yourself at the weekends.

    Its ridiculous. In a recent radio documentary, it was said that in a particular area in Kildare, the population had doubled within 2 years, and as a result, the schools where overcrowded.

    The waiting list was so long that the average school start age had risen from 5 years old, to 7 years old. Which of course means that these children will be 19, maybe 20, obtaining their leaving certs!!!!!

    Why is it permissible to develop 20'000 houses in a particular area, and not be required to arrange for the development of the necessary amenities?

    Surely we should come up with something that states that for every 5 thousand homes being built, at least one primary, and one secondary school must be set up, at least one shopping centre should be provided, etc.

    Housing, however, is just one of the area's that smacks of a lack of foresight.

    Transport, or should I even start on the disgrace that is our transport system?

    Tax, insurance, NCT, toll bridge, fuel costs, etc, make it difficult for us to take to the roads, however, once we have overcome these costs, life gets a little easier... Ha, I wish.

    We are then unleashed onto a network of one-way streets, road works, closed lanes, pot holes roads, and generally ridiculous traffic jams.

    The way our roads are mapped out leave us with no choice but to use public transport. So in essence, we are being forced onto a system that also fails us.
    In many cases, there are not enough links from North to South, leaving us scrambling from one bus to the next in order to get to work or college.
    There are not enough bus lanes.

    In relation to the over populating of areas, our bus service has yet to catch up. Take Whitehall, santry, drumcondra, for example. The population in these areas is massive, yet the timetable we have lays on as many buses as it did 5 years ago, which just isn't enough.

    Hands up who has stood at their bus stop watching full buses pass you by, this happens to me almost everyday.

    I realise I am ranting but there really is no excusable reason for our country to be in this state.
    Any intelligent person can see that if you allow for 20'000 new houses to be built, that people will populate these houses, people have needs and these needs will need to be met.

    The lack of forward planning will have a domino effect on many areas, for example, with people being older finishing school, college and purchasing their own homes.

    What do you lot think of this? Have you suffered/ are you suffering as a result of the lack of our government’s foresight?

    but, arent these areas outside the pale.....?


  • #44
    Airblazer
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 449 ✭✭Airblazer


    The time for Revolution is near at hand..Rejoice for thou art soon to be freed!!


  • #45
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 165,998 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    WhiteWashMan wrote:
    but, arent these areas outside the pale.....?

    They are, I named a few area's as examples, only to back up my theory, as they are area's I am personally familiar with and places that I have seen the effects that a lack of forward planning have had on the people.

    I believe the problems described are widespread, and that a lot of us have been effected by them in some way, at some stage.


  • #46
    connundrum
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,563 ✭✭✭connundrum


    The whole lot needs to be taken care of - health care, education, leisure facilities etc and the Government know this and they put all the "plans" in place and then through a series of magic tricks and drawn veils they manage to distract the public eye away from the actual problem and onto something pretty and shiny... take the Luas for example. The feckin thing doesn't even join up! :confused:


  • #47
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 165,998 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    connundrum wrote:
    a series of magic tricks and drawn veils they manage to distract the public eye away from the actual problem and onto something pretty and shiny...
    I actually said that very same thing only yesterday. They government will launch a "pretty garden" campign, and while everyone is distracted with that, they grant planning permission for another 50,000 properties, and stick a levvy onto anything possible.
    If the people in this country decided to abandon their cars, and take to cycling instead, I promise you there would be a brand new bicycle tax!!!


  • #48
    connundrum
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,563 ✭✭✭connundrum


    sillysausage wrote:
    I promise you their would be a brand new bicycle tax!!!

    That'd be great, and I wouldn't put it past them - "We have to charge each cyclist €100 a year lads, sure who else is going to pay for the half arsed cycle lanes that we've built. Aren't they pretty?!"

    And you can be guarunteed that if everyone did take to cycling then the govt would temporarily drop the VRT or road tax in an attempt to get everyone back driving! Poxbags! :eek:


  • #49
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 165,998 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    connundrum wrote:

    And you can be guarunteed that if everyone did take to cycling then the govt would temporarily drop the VRT or road tax in an attempt to get everyone back driving! Poxbags! :eek:

    Absolutely!!!


  • #50
    BEAT
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 5,945 ✭✭✭BEAT


    sillysausage,
    can I just say that...your nick makes me hungry.

    that is all.:v:


  • #51
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 165,998 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    TurquoiseDream wrote:
    sillysausage,
    can I just say that...your nick makes me hungry.

    that is all.:v:
    Emmmm, sorry about that, what if I was a veggie sausage, would you still be hungry?


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  • #52
    BEAT
    Hosted Moderators Posts: 5,945 ✭✭✭BEAT


    that...would just make me sad :(

    you sillysausage you :v:


  • #53
    morlan
    Closed Accounts Posts: 187 ✭✭morlan


    Answer - high density, good quality housing IN the city centre.

    IFSC 1 & 2, Spencer Dock, Grand Canal Dock - A wasted opportunitiy to build high density in the city. Most of the apartments going up there are 4-6 stories. A complete waste of space.

    We have to start building upwards in this city.


  • #54
    audge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 333 ✭✭audge


    Good post, I agree with everything you have said. The celtic tiger has only seen the day to day lives of the Irish people become more complicated and stressful.


  • #55
    Siogfinsceal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,915 ✭✭✭Siogfinsceal


    honey i agree with you grew up in a satellite town in kildare all there was was houses - no facilities no gym, no cinema, no chipper and they wondered why we hung around the shops as teenagers???!! For the size of naas for example which is massive now there is only a 2 screen cinema! I had to go to secondary school in dublin as the schools in kildare were full even though my name was down since i was 2 !! now they are building more and more houses and still no new school ..or bettre transport that woul dbe a start its a joke at the mo


  • #56
    Siogfinsceal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,915 ✭✭✭Siogfinsceal


    as for cycling - hell no ive paid through the nose to own my car (road tax lol and im still payin to go through the toll bridge and hopping off pot holes every day!) so theres no way they will tell me not to drive. give us a decent public transport system lads that would be a start had no car for 4 weeks recently - warning lads do not live in kildare and work in dublin if you have no car


  • #57
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 165,998 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    Siogfinsceal wrote:
    honey i agree with you grew up in a satellite town in kildare all there was was houses - no facilities no gym, no cinema, no chipper and they wondered why we hung around the shops as teenagers???!! For the size of naas for example which is massive now there is only a 2 screen cinema! I had to go to secondary school in dublin as the schools in kildare were full even though my name was down since i was 2 !! now they are building more and more houses and still no new school ..or bettre transport that woul dbe a start its a joke at the mo

    My God, what you have just described is an absolute disgrace. The lack of consideration for people in these area's is just not justifiable .

    I really want to do something about it, even if its just to have our voices heard.
    Would you guys sign a petition if I posted one??


  • #58
    dr zoidberg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 286 ✭✭dr zoidberg


    WhiteWashMan wrote:
    but, arent these areas outside the pale.....?
    Leixlip is not outside the pale :mad: - it's in the Dublin metro region (according to the Guards) as well unlike Maynooth & Celbridge.
    Anyway, yeah you're spot on about the planning problems in this country, Leixlip is full of drugs mainly because there is nothing to do, and when you don't provide the facilities social problems almost inveitably arise. Just look at Ballymun for example. The problem wasn't that they were high-rise, it's that there were no facilities provided. The problem with this country is that we are always playing catch-up with regards to facilities. They are planning a Liffey valley-type shopping centre based in Leixlip for North Kildare but by the time it is built it will probably be too late.
    You might think I'm exaggerating the problems in the town, well I would refute that by pointing out that I have seen at least six burnt-out cars in the town in my lifetime. And if you're ever in the town, you'll notice that the new public buildings all have small windows because of all the vandalism. It's a sad state of affairs... although at least with Leixlip Liffey valley, Blanch and town are close enough (distance-wise), in places like Portarlington it's even worse.


  • #59
    the_syco
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,310 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    dr zoidberg wrote:
    Leixlip is full of drugs
    You serous? I thought it went kinda dry cos of the suicides, garda crackdowns, etc?
    dr zoidberg wrote:
    They are planning a Liffey valley-type shopping centre based in Leixlip for North Kildare but by the time it is built it will probably be too late.
    Eh, but where will they put it? Seriously: every plot of land has already got permission for houses to be built on it. Unless its gonna be up the hill:rolleyes:
    dr zoidberg wrote:
    I would refute that by pointing out that I have seen at least six burnt-out cars in the town in my lifetime.
    Thats more of less true, but thats only the town, tbh. Down the side roads (eg: next to the Scouts Den), and in the carpark, I've seen lots more.


  • #60
    dr zoidberg
    Closed Accounts Posts: 286 ✭✭dr zoidberg


    Garda crackdowns? There's not even a proper Garda station ffs.

    Here is where theyre putting the shopping centre:lxpplan13aj.gif
    OK I did the map myself, but you can check the co. council's development plan which states that it has been agreed to develop what they call a "major retail centre" in Collinstown, Leixlip. They're also planning a new train station for Intel there. The location is perfect because they have 90 acres of land to develop it, the M4 & M4 Celbridge Interchange is beside it, meaning that Maynooth & Celbridge people can get to it easily.


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  • #61
    LegacyUser
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 165,998 ✭✭✭✭LegacyUser


    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=50755630&posted=1#post50755630


    Yet another example of a lack of forward planning! Excellent!


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