No Forward Planning - EVER!!!

LegacyUser · 21-11-2005 07:10PM #1

I am not sure if this is the right place for this post, so please feel free to move it to a more relevant spot.
Has anyone here noticed the absolute lack of foresight in this country?
It seriously makes my blood boil:mad:

For example, take Dublin's commuter belt area's, Kildare, portarlington, port laois, Drogheda etc.

All of these areas are currently experiencing a massive increase in population, due to the high house prices in Dublin, and the demand for more affordable housing within a reasonable proximity to Dublin.

Ok, so thousands of houses are being built in these area's, and permission has been given for the development of thousands more.

This means that thousands of people will be moving into these area's over the next 1-5 years, some of which will be young couples, who would have a view to starting families within this time span.

Well it’s all working wonderfully, young couples etc can avail of beautiful homes, and affordable (ish) prices, and can manage to commute to work in under an hour, excellent.

So what about Schools? Shopping centres? Colleges? Hospitals? Leisure activities, such as bowling, cinema, etc? Entertainment? Nightlife?

When all these people move into these areas, where will their children be educated? What will they do in their spare time?

No one cares; they just want you to move out there, and good luck to you when it comes to educating your kids, or enjoying yourself at the weekends.

Its ridiculous. In a recent radio documentary, it was said that in a particular area in Kildare, the population had doubled within 2 years, and as a result, the schools where overcrowded.

The waiting list was so long that the average school start age had risen from 5 years old, to 7 years old. Which of course means that these children will be 19, maybe 20, obtaining their leaving certs!!!!!

Why is it permissible to develop 20'000 houses in a particular area, and not be required to arrange for the development of the necessary amenities?

Surely we should come up with something that states that for every 5 thousand homes being built, at least one primary, and one secondary school must be set up, at least one shopping centre should be provided, etc.

Housing, however, is just one of the area's that smacks of a lack of foresight.

Transport, or should I even start on the disgrace that is our transport system?

Tax, insurance, NCT, toll bridge, fuel costs, etc, make it difficult for us to take to the roads, however, once we have overcome these costs, life gets a little easier... Ha, I wish.

We are then unleashed onto a network of one-way streets, road works, closed lanes, pot holes roads, and generally ridiculous traffic jams.

The way our roads are mapped out leave us with no choice but to use public transport. So in essence, we are being forced onto a system that also fails us.
In many cases, there are not enough links from North to South, leaving us scrambling from one bus to the next in order to get to work or college.
There are not enough bus lanes.

In relation to the over populating of areas, our bus service has yet to catch up. Take Whitehall, santry, drumcondra, for example. The population in these areas is massive, yet the timetable we have lays on as many buses as it did 5 years ago, which just isn't enough.

Hands up who has stood at their bus stop watching full buses pass you by, this happens to me almost everyday.

I realise I am ranting but there really is no excusable reason for our country to be in this state.
Any intelligent person can see that if you allow for 20'000 new houses to be built, that people will populate these houses, people have needs and these needs will need to be met.

The lack of forward planning will have a domino effect on many areas, for example, with people being older finishing school, college and purchasing their own homes.

What do you lot think of this? Have you suffered/ are you suffering as a result of the lack of our government’s foresight?

rugbug86 · 21-11-2005 07:11PM

well ranted tbh!

LegacyUser · 21-11-2005 07:16PM

rugbug86 wrote:

well ranted tbh!

Sorry!

Nightwish · 21-11-2005 07:26PM

thats why I'm doing my thesis on spatial planning and I'll rescue the country form haphazard developers and dodgy county councillors allowing dodgy cardboard cities with no facilities to be built on the outskirts of commuter towns! I'm on a mission dammit!

LegacyUser · 21-11-2005 07:32PM

Nightwish wrote:

thats why I'm doing my thesis on spatial planning and I'll rescue the country form haphazard developers and dodgy county councillors allowing dodgy cardboard cities with no facilities to be built on the outskirts of commuter towns! I'm on a mission dammit!

Well if you need any help, let me know. The only way anything will be done to fix this problem is if enough people complain about it, at a public level.
Wonder if we could start up a petition or something?

YeatsCounty · 21-11-2005 07:38PM

Nice rant. Except i wouldn't call it a rant, it made far too much sense. It would be better to call it an angry pronouncement on the state of our country.

But yes, that was a very articulate post. We've always had a lack of forward planning in Ireland. It's a national joke, and not a funny one. Our lack of planning extends from local authority level to Dáil level. of course, our elected representatives will rarely listen to us until election time. then they will "listen" to us. yes, I have lost faith in Irish politics.

Supercell · 21-11-2005 07:40PM

Good post, heard on the radio this evening that the Central Euro bank is forcasting a 20% house price fall here within the next 5 years or so, this country is in meltdown and nobody is trying to cool the flames, you are 100% correct about lack of forward planning...
Wait until the French and German enconomies pick up..which they will for sure eventually..interest rates will rise..there will be carnage here as people find themselves in the commuter towns with crappy facilities, crappy transport links, overcrowded schools..and their houses will be first to devalue..its not a pretty picture, but its a very Irish one

Call me radical, but high rise well contructed apartment blocks with decent integrated facilites..and all of them selling at retail value - prevents the scumbag freeloaders wrecking something they got for free..

Why are there no high rise apartment building here anymore compaired to most other eu and American cities?, where there is no issues with them..if their enhabitants have to buy it and are not handed it on a platter for a nominal rent of 20 euro a month or something ..they are viable friendly pleasant communities to live in.

Unfortunately imho there will have to be a rock hard landing before the govt changes their ways..Irland govt are never ever proactive...always reactive..our economy will have to go into freefall again before lessons are learned (again), this time with a vastly bigger population and landscape to the 80's..which were pretty bleak..but if you had a job you generally could at least afford a house and not somewhere in the arse of nowhere either.

LegacyUser · 21-11-2005 08:07PM

Longfield wrote:

our economy will have to go into freefall again before lessons are learned (again), this time with a vastly bigger population and landscape to the 80's..which were pretty bleak..but if you had a job you generally could at least afford a house and not somewhere in the arse of nowhere either.

You mentioned the 80's. I was talking to my mam today about her mortgage repayments. in the 80's the average time a mortgage would be repayed between 20 - 25 years.
My mam had just cleared the mortgage on our home.

Now the average mortgage is taken out with a view to being repayed over 35 years.

If I where to get a mortgage now, with a view to repaying it over 35 years, I would be almost in my late 50's, almost 60 before I actually owned my own property.

The average reitrement age has been raised to 70, and packaged to make it appear as though we are all so healthy and energetic in our 60s, there is really no need for us to retire so soon.

In truth, it is because the average age of a first time buyer has risen to 30, and therefore, with remortgaging etc, they will need those extra work time years just to pay for their homes.

It sickens me to think that you will spend your entire working life paying for the house that you live in.

DonkeyStyle \o/ · 21-11-2005 08:14PM

A recurring trend I've noticed, about this government especially, is the preference towards creating results that look good on paper (or that might make a nice statistic in an argument), rather than creating something well thought out that works.

segadreamcast · 21-11-2005 08:32PM

"In relation to the over populating of areas, our bus service has yet to catch up. Take Whitehall, santry, drumcondra, for example. The population in these areas is massive, yet the timetable we have lays on as many buses as it did 5 years ago, which just isn't enough."

You're spot on on this point - I live in Glasnevin (which is, in my opinion, fairly well covered- though it could be better). Santry, in particular, needs to have more frequent buses...the 11/11A/13/13A flow onto the Drumcondra route - so this isn't really an issue. Drumcondra have plenty of buses. Whitehall has virtually nothing (the 3...and that comes...every 20 mins?)

Nightwish · 21-11-2005 09:04PM

I lived in Whitehall and got the 3 every morning at 8:10 am, when it turned up...the next one after that is 40 mins later. Dublin Bus cannot keep up with the pace of building in the country. Its not their fault. They weren't even included in the Transport 21 package

lisa.c · 21-11-2005 09:04PM

well shouldnt the majority of people consider these things befrore they buy houses outside of dublin... who would be dumb enough to buy a house where the most essential amenities such as schools shops hospitals and transport are not readily available!!!

i strogly agree with the original poster but people need to be aware when they buy their houses and where they buy them.

DonkeyStyle \o/ · 21-11-2005 09:04PM

Doesn't the 16 go to santry?
I see 3 16's for every 11 and have done for years... takes the píss really.

Nightwish · 21-11-2005 09:05PM

the 16 goes up the Swords Rd but not down Collins Avenue

Scarinae · 21-11-2005 09:05PM

The problem is not with the planners, the problem is with the administrators in planning departments and the local politicians/councillors who actually make the decisions. Oh, there is a lot of foresight in this country, by the planners who have been educated to understand the effects of population increases and distribution on our towns. The problem is, they are only advisors, they cannot actually make the decisions. The decisions are made by the administrators in the councils, who don't need to have any qualifications after their Leaving Certificates to hold their jobs. Some of them do have further qualifications, sometimes in relevant areas, but the older ones particularly often do not. While this system is still in place, county councils will continue to make stupid decisions regarding the building of houses, infrastructure and amenities.

Nightwish · 21-11-2005 09:09PM

^^^ exactly!!! its very frustrating for planners to put forward the logical argument against why something shouldnt be built for many reasons but its the unqualified county councillors who have the power.

The west of Dublin is testament to that. Thank you Liam Lawlor and your brown envelopes

Scarinae · 21-11-2005 09:12PM

lisa.c wrote:

well shouldnt the majority of people consider these things befrore they buy houses outside of dublin... who would be dumb enough to buy a house where the most essential amenities such as schools shops hospitals and transport are not readily available!!!

Did it ever occur to you that money might be an issue for some people?! Houses in convenient places ain't exactly cheap, unless it's in a scumbag area which makes it undesirable

Nightwish · 21-11-2005 09:23PM

lisa.c wrote:

well shouldnt the majority of people consider these things befrore they buy houses outside of dublin... who would be dumb enough to buy a house where the most essential amenities such as schools shops hospitals and transport are not readily available!!!

people have no choice. the demand far outstrips the supply. and a lot of new home buyers are priced out of buying second hand home win the city so living in the outer suburbs or commuter - land is their only choice

Somnus · 21-11-2005 09:25PM

You should send your first post in the form of a letter to the President or other official who'll read it. Maybe they'll make you an adviser

Nightwish · 21-11-2005 09:27PM

I'll use as an opinion in my thesis if the OP will let me!

LegacyUser · 22-11-2005 12:02AM

Dr.Poca wrote:

You should send your first post in the form of a letter to the President or other official who'll read it. Maybe they'll make you an adviser

You are probably right. What good am I doing anyone if I dont make my point officially??

Good idea Dr.Poca

LegacyUser · 22-11-2005 12:03AM

Nightwish wrote:

I'll use as an opinion in my thesis if the OP will let me!

Absolutely, no problem, glad I can help!

the_syco · 22-11-2005 03:26AM

Its ridiculous. In a recent radio documentary, it was said that in a particular area in Kildare, the population had doubled within 2 years, and as a result, the schools where overcrowded.

That'd be Leixlip of Celbridge. I'd say it was Leixlip, tho.

=-=

Me looks at the riots in France. Bored teenagers, with nothing to do. Rioting. Me looks at the commuter belts around Dublin. Bored teenagers, with nothing to do.

lisa.c wrote:

well shouldnt the majority of people consider these things befrore they buy houses outside of dublin... who would be dumb enough to buy a house where the most essential amenities such as schools shops hospitals and transport are not readily available!!!

Erm, proberly because where the facilities are available, there is no houses for sale nearby them, or the kids are all grown up, and most families want other young families nearby, so that their kids can make friends.
Also, the houses are built nearby the facilities, but at such a great rate that the facilities cant keep up. Finally, there isn't enough teachers in the schools we have now, so who'd teach in the new ones?

Reaver772 · 22-11-2005 04:35AM

On behalf of the goverment let me respond.

sillysausage wrote:

Has anyone here noticed the absolute lack of foresight in this country?

Noticed what? You dont see any lack of foresight (wavy hand jedi style)

So what about Schools? Shopping centres? Colleges? Hospitals? Leisure activities, such as bowling, cinema, etc? Entertainment? Nightlife?

Hummmmm If you build it they will come?

When all these people move into these areas, where will their children be educated? What will they do in their spare time?

Have you considered homeschooling? Private school like my little jimmy?
As for their spare time sure can't they get a hoop and a bit of a stick tis great fun! or jasus they could get a job and help ya with the morgage!

Its ridiculous. In a recent radio documentary, it was said that in a particular area in Kildare, the population had doubled within 2 years, and as a result, the schools where overcrowded.

Then they won't be loney, it'll be great for em.

Why is it permissible to develop 20'000 houses in a particular area, and not be required to arrange for the development of the necessary amenities?

Listen ya got the houses but ya need the amenities as well? I don't see a problem at all, just get someone to drop off a fat brown envelope when im at the golf course.

Surely we should come up with something that states that for every 5 thousand homes being built, at least one primary, and one secondary school must be set up, at least one shopping centre should be provided, etc.

Great idea! well get right on it, only the christmas holidays is next week, but don't worry as soon as we're back in february well get ya some port-a-cabins and maybe a supervalue

Housing, however, is just one of the area's that smacks of a lack of foresight.?

Feck its wearing off! you don't see a lack of foresight!

Transport, or should I even start on the disgrace that is our transport system?

Isn't the luas great, look its nice and shiny oh so pretty! So stop crashing into the bloody thing, da know how much that fecking white elafant cost us.

Tax, insurance, NCT, toll bridge, fuel costs, etc, make it difficult for us to take to the roads, however, once we have overcome these costs, life gets a little easier... Ha, I wish.

Sure cant ya walk to work? 20 miles a day will do ya the world of good. When i was a wee lad all the kids walked everywhere. Except me, my daddy drove me to school in the bmw.

Hands up who has stood at their bus stop watching full buses pass you by, this happens to me almost everyday.

Ah love its easy, just get the form for ya expense account thingy and then they'll give you a nice new merc. Just remember not to run over any of the fecking peasants!

Endurance Man · 22-11-2005 04:46AM

Hahahah, you should come to Navan and see how they have planned out our roads in light of some consruction :rolleyes: , you would think a monkey was in charge.

skywalker · 22-11-2005 10:59AM

Absolutely fantastic post sausage. Seriously, you may have to change your username after that.

joejoem · 22-11-2005 11:09AM

sillysausage wrote:

RANT

Wow, I'm in a bad mood now. We live in a country run by monkeys. Our Governments "Chief Scientific Advisor" has a phony degree, we frequently hear about how corrupt our polititions are, and our security forces are a farce.

:mad:

LegacyUser · 22-11-2005 11:10AM

skywalker wrote:

Absolutely fantastic post sausage. Seriously, you may have to change your username after that.

notsosillysausage doesnt have the same ring to it:p

joe_chicken · 22-11-2005 11:11AM

joejoem wrote:

Wow, I'm in a bad mood now. We live in a country run by monkeys. Our Governments "Chief Scientific Advisor" has a phony degree, we frequently hear about how corrupt our polititions are, and our security forces are a farce.

:mad:

my girlfriend just told me about that phoney degree thing... hahaha... tis funny... whats even funnier is hes still working... HAHAHA!!!

skywalker · 22-11-2005 11:23AM

sillysausage wrote:

notsosillysausage doesnt have the same ring to it:p

True, & if your name were just sausage people would presume your a guy.:v:

Dave! · 22-11-2005 11:32AM

Sing it sister!

No Forward Planning - EVER!!!

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