gardai right or wrong to batton students

po0k · 11-05-2002 12:49PM

Originally posted by Boston

Nice boys widows get a nice irish flag after the funeral.

Damn right. About time they brought the smack down.
They get a load of abuse and most of the time don't respond, it being seen as 'part of the job' and as a result they get hassle and no cooperation cos people either don't respect them or aren't deterred by them.

That "protest" was a load of shíte. From reading a lot of people's replies and statements/interviews etc. it appears taht it was basicly a street party on our main thoroughfare for 4 hours, knackers/scummbags/gyps showed up started hassel and the cops put an end to it in case a real riot broke out.

Also, if it was meant to be a 'peaceful protest' what the bloody christ were they doing smashing up a car, even if it was their own? That would only incite violence and was bloody näive if they thought it would do otherwise.

I for one think the gardaí may have lost the head a small bit, but were in the right cause overall. Anyone in their right mind wold have left as soon as it became apparent this was nolonger a peaceful protest, yet some muppet who got batoned on the head was bítching on the LAte Late last night that he and a few mates were standing on the footpath watching it happen when gardaí came over and rounded them.
Stupid plaidhc should have known better.

po0k · 11-05-2002 12:54PM

Originally posted by Kappar

Yeah it’s right up there with the holocaust.

That is a rediculous and insulting comparison. Please retract it.

Neither does ignoring truth.

Truth is subjective. Objective truth doesn't exist.

people that were there and ere not co-operating to their expectations and those who were bystanders, onlookers and people that were leaving some were hit some were not so I fail to work out how you were to know if you were going to be hit or if you were not.

If you were not participating in the violence you shouldn't be still hanging around.

D-Generate · 11-05-2002 01:04PM

Are you saying that if the Gardaí had let them tear up the street and caused property damage that you would praise the Gardaí for not stopping them. A lot of them were scumbags looking for a nice fight with the fuzz. Glad to see them being shut up with a trunchen in the face

Kappar · 11-05-2002 02:44PM

Yeah it’s right up there with the holocaust.

Although it wasn’t meant to be taken seriously, it was satirizing the fact that logic1 thinks inflecting pain on people is funny, I can see who people might be offend by it, so I retract it and apologize to anyone who might have been offended by it.

Truth is subjective. Objective truth doesn't exist.

Ones’ subjective perception of the truth can’t be ignored, so an objective institution working pro bono public to establish, as close as possible, an objective truth.

If you were not participating in the violence you shouldn't be still hanging around

An independent RTE journalist said she seen people leaving the scene that were still hit in the back of the head by Garda. And I seen, on TV, people with arms raised retreating from the scene still struck by the Garda.

logic1 · 11-05-2002 02:56PM

Originally posted by Kappar

Although it wasn’t meant to be taken seriously, it was satirizing the fact that logic1 thinks inflecting pain on people is funny,

I hope you can quote me directly on that. So far your argument has been weak at best. This wasn't a peaceful protest it may have started out as such but soon it was overrun by scumbags looking for a fight.

Should the cops have asked to see protesters "Scumbag ID card" before hitting them? How are they meant to differentiate between violent protestors and non-violent ones?

Everyone would have to be treated equally in this case which is evident that they were.

As Dgen stated id the guards hadn't reacted they would be getting criticized right now for neglecting their duties and people would be screaming at them to prosecute the rioters.

It's a lose/lose situation.

.logic.

b20uvkft6m5xwg · 11-05-2002 03:10PM

Why is this poll called...
"gardai right or wrong to batton students"

While there may have been students there, I suspect the hardcore troublemakers are not students. Perhaps "protestors" may have been a more appropriate title or even better....
Professional Idiots.

Having said that, even now the facts are hazy, but I dont condone the actions of Gardai who aimed to "injure" people as opposed to "police" them.

Kappar · 11-05-2002 05:15PM

I hope you can quote me directly on that

‘Being hit with phonebooks so there's no bruises or being rolled up in a mattress (funniest I've heard in a while)’

This wasn't a peaceful protest it may have started out as such but soon it was overrun by scumbags looking for a fight.

But we have no evidence of belligerent actions by protesters as of yet, maybe if the CCTV tapes are released I might be wrong. As far as I know no member of the crowd, public are Garda were injured by a protester.

How are they meant to differentiate between violent protestors and non-violent ones?

I am not an expert but to me a man, submissively, retreating with his arms over his head, and people passively standing on the side of the street looking on or retreating are not of an immediate concern.

As Dgen stated id the guards hadn't reacted they would be getting criticized right now for neglecting their duties and people would be screaming at them to prosecute the rioters.

Rioters? How are we to assume that if the protest would to progress that it would have become a riot.

Boston · 11-05-2002 05:28PM

The simple fact is they only have themselves to blame, from watching hte late late show last night it because clear to me, that the event was designed to cause hassel with the police.

The muppets talked about the public order act being facist and against their right to protest where ever they want. well you know what, that law was designed to stop events like monday, and you cant just ignor lasw you dont like. they had an unplaned demop against god knows what with drinking and drugs along a route that wasnt agread with the gardi. How how can you blame the gardi for mis understandign the situation when you never tried to talk to them? they tried to do what happened in england and ignor the police and basically do what ever they wanted.
they didnt get away with it and now they are crying foul

po0k · 11-05-2002 09:51PM

Who was the muppet tryin his case by demonstrating his overinflated and excessive dsytopian post-modernistic über-hyphenated antidisestablishmentarianist lingo?
Wearin a kilt and a mohawk too.
He brought shame to the hair. Man.

ThrAx · 11-05-2002 09:55PM

Smelleh hippies. I couldnt give a **** about mcdonalds being a multinational capitalist type thing, i just like to eat their yummy unhealthy bland burgers. And i couldn't give a rats disease infested anus whether or not Ireland is a capitalist country, if it was a communist country it would probably be ****.

TacT · 12-05-2002 11:16AM

well I know one of the students who decided to go along and he's sitting at home bruised and battered and unable to move after the gardai's attack, he was also on the front page of one of the paper's with his face covered in blood after being battened down,

they were out of order, they don't know how to handle the (or any similar) situation(s) and the force is a joke. :mad:

I used to live in collins Avenue and I now live in Stillorgan (middle/upper class if you wish)

As for the urban myth's, samba pld a gig in HQ a good while back and the gardai decided to beat the **** out of one of his friends, a girlfriend and another mate who tried to get everyone to calm down....................
They wanted to get their jackets from inside the club but the bouncer's refused to let them back in and told them to come back tomorrow, they were cold, standing outside seeing their friends off and the bouncer's called the gardai over to tell them to go home and for the want of getting their clothing received beatings from a couple of bored garda with nothing better to do :mad:

Boston · 12-05-2002 01:04PM

Originally posted by tactical anni

they were out of order, they don't know how to handle the (or any similar) situation(s) and the force is a joke. :mad:

well maybe if you mates had of taken the time to discuss the route with the gardi and what would happen, all of this could have been avoided, it is my understanding that the trouble started when without warning you lot decided to sit down in the middle of the road, while another group decide to trash a car. later it turned out to be owned by the people trashing it, but did anyone tell the gardi? no.

And what right to they have to break up a car in the mddle of the street anyway? Like whos going to pick the crap up, and are you going to pay for repairs to anycar that accidentaly drives over broken glass, or metal? This is why most people hate you new ageds guys because you dont give a damn about anyone else, you cant put yourself in someone elses shoes.

What gives you the right to block traffic for thousands of people coming home from probably long drives without so much as a days warning? YUea all your crowd new about it, and i saw scum bags writing slogans like reclaim the street on walls that weekend. nut it seems no one else knew about it.

tell you want your go aring ill give you the name and palces of where i saw gaffite on the walls and you go paint it over.

as a citizen of this country i not only have the right to protest when and where i want but also no to be subjected to the defacement of public property, you dont own it, its not yours, keep you muck off the walls

TacT · 12-05-2002 04:23PM

first off you are making so many ****ed up judgements about me personally it's pathetic.

You don't know me at all.

I have never and never will put any muck on the walls :mad:
Nor do I trash other people's personal belongings/property and make a nuisance of myself in public.

I pay my ****ing taxes too.

I have never been part of any hippy demonstration or any other protest for that matter, and I don't spend my saturday's at the top of grafton street with a megaphone speaking some gibberish about jesus or some such.

I also don't tie myself to the tree's in protest of them being cut down, now what sort of a person do you think I am exactly, just another happy go lucky hippy or some ****!?

You have a bad attitude, I agree the gardai had to react although all I had to say from my point of view and what I had heard and seen was they did and people were needlessly hurt and I believe the whole incident was one big tragedy. Good day to you sir.

I'll make sure to buy you a few drinks before warming up the conversation if I meet you then....

Boston · 12-05-2002 04:33PM

If as you say you have nothing to do with these groups and your werent there then i dont really understand how you can comment that the gardi where out of line. Alot of people, especially those on this board, without any facts jumped on the gardi last tuesday for their actions. Many of those people have either lower the tone of what they were saying or shut up all together after seeing the reports of day long drukeness of the protestors. Tell me was this bloke you know drinking that day?

Btw i never clamed you did anything, just people like you.

TacT · 12-05-2002 04:45PM

people like me :rolleyes:

I give up......

No this guy had not been drinking all day.

The_Bullman · 12-05-2002 05:29PM

I am very confused. From the poll 51 people thought that the gardai overreacted and 27 thought that they where just doing their jobs. (numbers correct at time of going to press). yet the feeling that i get reading this page is the complete opposite. from my limited experience, polls show the true opinion of the people and in this case it seems that people just don't want to get involved. I can see why-when tactical anni put forward his opinion he was instantly rubbished and put down even though one of his mates was there. seems crazy to me.

just wondering. if there was a group of respected doctors out there who marched just like the anti-globalisation guys, what would the reaction be if the gardai batton charged them?

also did you see the footage of the gardai in action at the march Boston? I did and was ashamed. they took on unarmed members of the public at random.

seems like peaceful protest marches aren't allowed in this island. the security forces just assume that it is going to get messy so they just stamp it out anyway.

Boston · 12-05-2002 05:41PM

Originally posted by The_Bullman
just wondering. if there was a group of respected doctors out there who marched just like the anti-globalisation guys, what would the reaction be if the gardai batton charged them?

they wouldnt be very repectable if they behaved in the way these protestors did

The_Bullman · 12-05-2002 05:58PM

why what did they do?

what laws did they break?

Boston · 12-05-2002 06:05PM

what did they do: Resisted arrest some of them, behaved in a poor manner.

What law did they break: besides the public traffic act, they where also,(many of them) drinking in a public place, and being disorderly, some asualted members of the gardi.

The_Bullman · 12-05-2002 06:34PM

Originally posted by Boston
behaved in a poor manner.

right folks you heard it here first. It is against the law to behave in a poor manner.

strange that some of them resisted the right to be beaten accross the head/face, and be kicked around the street too.

some asualted members of the gardi.

-did they really do this? can you be charged with assault if the assault is verbal?

Boston · 12-05-2002 06:39PM

Originally posted by The_Bullman

right folks you heard it here first. It is against the law to behave in a poor manner.

parhaps you should re read that, you asked what they did, i said they bahaved in a poor manner, you asked what laws they broke if gave you a list.

strange that some of them resisted the right to be beaten accross the head/face, and be kicked around the street too.
[/B]

which came first the chicken or the egg? that what his is.

-did they really do this? can you be charged with assault if the assault is verbal? [/B]

well for starters they did physicaly assualt the gardi, placing your hands on a gardi could be considered assualt, you dont need to kick their heads in. And i say several people pulling out of gardi, pull hair and the likes trying not to be arrested.

Nietzschean · 12-05-2002 06:40PM

ah i say well done to the guardi, i like our capitalist system...and well i say beat the crap out of anyone who tries to organise protests against it.....it worked for communism for years

Slutmonkey57b · 12-05-2002 08:55PM

There's a very simple background to all this:
The protest was organised by "reclaim the streets" whoever t.f. they are. Supposedly against the Public Order Act, which they seem to think is a bad idea. If you read the fliers for the protest, it was very clearly and deliberatly an illegal protest designed to breach the Public Order Act.
The coppers turned up looking for trouble. We know this because they took their numbers off their shirts.
People got a bit battered.

So what's up? Who are the "reclaim the streets" people? Anybody know? I certainly haven't heard anyone come forward to tell us who these concerned citizens are. Why did the coppers expect trouble? Because they're evil pigs who like a bit of trouble or because every other protest of this type has turned violent everywhere else it happened? What happens when the police don't turn up to police these "peaceful" protests - see the first May Day riots in London.

The irony is that the Public Order Act is designed to reclaim the streets - from the anarchistic drunken violent arseholes who populate our cities nowadays. Need proof? Sit on the corner of O'Connell Street from 12am to 6am a few weekends in a row and see if you think the streets need reclaiming. As for all this crap about working class Vs. middle class opinion, I have some bad news for you - nowadays there's no "safe" areas or "safe" people. You're just as likely to get battered by a middle class drunken yob in dublin as a working class drunken yob.

Did the coppers do the right thing? Probably not. Was it understandable? Absolutely. Personally, I'm in favour of shooting everyone on general principle.

TacT · 13-05-2002 01:17PM

Amen to the poll results anyway, seems that *MOST* of the general public are being level headed about the situation and what truly happened

seamus · 13-05-2002 01:51PM

Originally posted by tactical anni
first off you are making so many ****ed up judgements about me personally it's pathetic.

You don't know me at all.

Don't worry tac - I still wuvs ya

After reading some unbiased eyewitness reports in the Indo yesterday, I do believe *some* gardai overreacted, but all-in-all, it was the media who truly overreacted.

The car that was rolled out into the middle of the street, kicked around and spray-painted on was belonging to a protestor, yes, but the Gardai didn't know that. As far as they knew, the protestors had grabbed a random car belonging to a member of the public and had begun vadalising it. Any protestors involved in that, deserved what they got. Other protestors were drinking, and throwing cans at the gardai. They deserved what they got too.
The Gardai were being taunted. Every day, they put themselves on the line to protect people like the protestors, and then the protestors are spitting at them and calling them scum. I know I'd lose the head. Eyewitness reports (even one from a protestor) confirm that only 8 or 10 Gardai were involved in that random attacking.

So, in summary, IMO, yes, a few Gardai wrongly lost the head. They should be trained enough to keep their cool most of the time. But media reports, especially that indymedia place blew it waaay out of proportion. They made it out like it was a free for all, involving every member of the Gardai against some poor ickle innocent protestors.

Reclaim the Streets on the day didn't seem to have any leaders (which made discussions with the gardai re: crowd control difficult), but they did manage to keep the location of the meeting secret which shows someone is running the show. Just FYi (someone asked).

Saruman · 13-05-2002 02:01PM

Thats very interesting... the protest was arranged by a group called "Reclaim the streets!" basically they want to reclaim the streets for the people.. reclaim from cars etc.. i find it ironic that one of them drove to the protest in their car and it got smashed... unless im missing something that is... im fairly bemused by it though!

Jambo · 14-05-2002 07:56PM

It was without doubt wrong and extreemly unlawful but was do you expect from the most corrupt goverment body in this state..

But you got to admit whoever done the filming will be getting cheques for 250 off youve been framed and kirstys home videos !!!

DonkeysLad · 14-05-2002 08:22PM

those stupid hippies should be happy, if the guards did'nt beat them up they never would have gotten as much media attention as they did for their protest, and why would you wreck your own bloody car ?! the muppets ! hold on till I burn down my house as to protest against stamp duty !!! and smash my tv cos I don't agree with tv licensing !! twats

Turner · 15-05-2002 12:55AM

Anybody who spits at a Gard deserves a slap over the head with a baton.
Spitting nearly annoys me as much as Joyriders. Pure scumbags spit at people (or kids maybe)

If somebody spat at me in the street id use something that would do alot more damage than a small wooden slapstick.

Chief.

WhiteWashMan · 15-05-2002 09:42AM

students deserve to be beaten anyway

gardai right or wrong to batton students

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