gardai right or wrong to batton students

horndog 2 · 10-05-2002 11:56AM #1

Do you think the Gardai over reacted in how they dealt with the situation that occured last week.
or is it that the media have only shown one side of what really happened after all the cameras showed the gardai batton charging but not what happened prior

Saruman · 10-05-2002 12:03PM

Could do with another option there... I say yes they were right.,. however some of them..one in particular obviously got a little trigger happy and started beating on innocent demonstrators and not ones causing trouble!

Hmm i sometimes wonder though.. what would happen with these demonstraions if the authorities ignored them completely.. as long as they are not causing trouble they could leave them alone... Then the trouble makers would have no one to vent their anger on.. they could only go for destruction of public property or something and then it would be no holds barred when the gardai arrived! Also for the innocent protestors.. when trouble makers start causing trouble they should get the hell out of there as what happened there is typical.. happens all over the world when a riot breaks out.. the innocents get caught up in it but they shold have the sense to get away from it! At the lease move away and keep their hands shown so its known they have no weapons etc...

The Kool Dued · 10-05-2002 12:21PM

overakted i say :cool:

10-05-2002 12:42PM

The Gardaí made a mistake .
They should have used watercannon:D
mm

TacT · 10-05-2002 01:05PM

I've seen the gardai in action a good few times and not once have I thought they did not over react to the situation and get violent unnecessarily.

They enjoy the power trip imho, especially the younger members of the force :mad:

DonkeysLad · 10-05-2002 01:09PM

I think the gardai did ok, i heard somewhere that the protesters were banging on civilian cars and some with pregnant women n' all in them, I think some of the protestors got away lightly with the garda getting alot of the blame from the media and politicians looking for votes, I do feel sorry for some of the innocents tho, a nice day out for them hehe:)

Silent Assasin · 10-05-2002 01:20PM

they were right.kill all hippies i say.

Silent Assasin · 10-05-2002 01:23PM

DonkeysLad i know for a fact you have not a big todger so be a good boy and change your user name to maggotman.otherwise it's a severe beating from our friendly garda siochana for you.

Wolfie · 10-05-2002 01:28PM

I agree with both sides of the argument to a certain extent. Many of the gardai got carried away and started acting like thugs (which is all many of them are), but if you had a business on Dame street getting the window smashed, or a car getting wrecked by rampaging hippy rejects, then you might want the gardai to move in and dispense a little 'rough-justice'.

As far as the media goes, I think that there is a lot of manipulation of the media from these anti-globablisation/anti-capitalist groups. They are experts at spin-doctoring and are being controlled at a higher level (conspiracy theory.. hehe).

Anyhow, anyone who didn't want to be in the thick of a riot should have legged it when the gardai started moving in.

Xterminator · 10-05-2002 01:28PM

I think if you are part of a demonstration, and some of them break the law, you have to quickly dissassociate yourself fom them, or accept the consequenses.

If it had been italian police or turkish police , i guarentee you more force would have been deployed. Such a 'small event' wouldnt even make the headlines over there.

I dont condone the over reaction of one/some of the guards, but living here with our unarmed guards and the rarity of large public disorder situations , we sometimes dont appreciate what drastic actions need to be taken to quell such situations.

Remeber looking at the genoa riots (and the police actions) on our screens with disbelief.

X

RasTa · 10-05-2002 02:07PM

why didnt they batton charge the taxi drivers when they blocked the roads?
fuk the police

Saruman · 10-05-2002 02:09PM

The taxi drivers were not running amok i imagine is the reason!

bonkey · 10-05-2002 02:16PM

Originally posted by RasTa
why didnt they batton charge the taxi drivers when they blocked the roads?

From what I've been reading, it wasnt just blocking of roads which was going on, which may answer that question.

jc

TacT · 10-05-2002 02:46PM

well I was sitting in my office on the green at the time of the taxi protests and they were bang out of order, maybe we are not used to big public distortion such as the gardai had to deal with although neither have they, which is why I conclude they have overreacted and are insufficiently trained to deal with a "riot" situation.

logic1 · 10-05-2002 03:00PM

I've seen Gardai violence first hand, what you see on the streets is nothing. In cells you can get the **** kicked out of you with no cameras or media to cover the story but I've also seen groups of lads turn around and beat the **** out of Cops.

You have to understand the job the cops do is violent on a daily basis, they constantly come up against hate and violence. In that atmosphere you're going to hit first and ask questions later.

If I was a cop there on the day I would have laid into em just as hard as anyone and that's a fact.

I don't think the Guards were right but I can understand why it happened. One guy was so tense on the footage you could even see him going for another guard until he put up his hands and started waving, only then the cop realized he was another cop.

It's like the "seeing red" thread I think alot of the cops just reacted to a violent situation with violence.

I certainly hope none of the guards are sacked for it. If this is becoming a country where we cringe and lash out against the very people that are trying to curb crime when they make a mistake I really don't want to live here.

.logic.

The_Bullman · 10-05-2002 03:03PM

from what i saw on the tv it showed the gardai going completly crazy. they where hitting people who where not threatening them in any way.where where children and women protesting at the march. there is no reason to go all gung-ho into that and start beating all around you. also, in that spot of town, you would have plenty of passers by walking around and looking to see what is happening. i am sure that they also got caught in the cross-fire. the main point is that the gardai where not under any threat. i would not like to see their reaction to the dali lama when he was about. peacefull protest should not meat with this over reaction. it is wrong. the cop who was seen going beserk on the news should be brought to court and charged with assault(several times over) not given desk juties. what a farce.

we have the most corrupt police force in europe as far as i can see.

Spunog UIE · 10-05-2002 03:16PM

some of them were complete bastards. really pisses ya off to see such dicks who are meant to be in control. theres no doubt on some of the videos that have been released that the guards not only reacted badly but some jeered, egged, and generally sought a reaction from some of the people to whom they beat up.

That lad that wasn't in uniform. the things ya'd like to do to teach him to cop on. ahhh it would enrage ya. well cops are usually like the army, a tad brain washed and some get more affected than others. ya need a certain type of mentality to be one, and it the power of the job can push some of these into being ass-holes.

TacT · 10-05-2002 03:34PM

Originally posted by logic1
I've seen Gardai violence first hand, what you see on the streets is nothing. In cells you can get the **** kicked out of you with no cameras or media to cover the story but I've also seen groups of lads turn around and beat the **** out of Cops.

You have to understand the job the cops do is violent on a daily basis, they constantly come up against hate and violence. In that atmosphere you're going to hit first and ask questions later.

If I was a cop there on the day I would have laid into em just as hard as anyone and that's a fact.

I don't think the Guards were right but I can understand why it happened. One guy was so tense on the footage you could even see him going for another guard until he put up his hands and started waving, only then the cop realized he was another cop.

It's like the "seeing red" thread I think alot of the cops just reacted to a violent situation with violence.

I certainly hope none of the guards are sacked for it. If this is becoming a country where we cringe and lash out against the very people that are trying to curb crime when they make a mistake I really don't want to live here.

.logic.

I disagree, I know what can happen in a cell, or even worse at the back of the station, and I'm sure samba can tell you all a little old yarn about just how bang out of order they are and have been in the past in/outside the station. The bottom line for me is we as a country may not be used to this but neither are the gardai and they need something to keep them in line too.....they can't expect to go out and do crap like that and then be contented with their desk for a few months only to be let loose on an unaware public again ......

I understand their job and have a few mates on the force logic....

one of whom since the ripe old age of 12 claimed he wanted to be a cop in NY because they have guns and he wanted to see some action. He was an outcast among our friends because he was an asshole, was abusive, and a downright stingey git. He later went on to join the force and has since been booted out .....having people like this within and accepted into the force scares me tbh.

The gardai don't exactly recruit all the nice boys now do they

A lot of them come from bad area's themselves and imho it gives them only too much of a chance to get back at people/society in general due to some grudges they may have had in the past due to a crappy lifestyle/whatever it may be.

They have the power and they willfully abuse it.........but for how long?

EvilGeorge · 10-05-2002 04:39PM

Well I say the Gardai should be given nuclear weaponary to use when neccessary.

Boston · 10-05-2002 07:07PM

Originally posted by tactical anni

I disagree, I know what can happen in a cell, or even worse at the back of the station, and I'm sure samba can tell you all a little old yarn about just how bang out of order they are and have been in the past in/outside the station. The bottom line for me is we as a country may not be used to this but neither are the gardai and they need something to keep them in line too.....they can't expect to go out and do crap like that and then be contented with their desk for a few months only to be let loose on an unaware public again ......

I understand their job and have a few mates on the force logic....

one of whom since the ripe old age of 12 claimed he wanted to be a cop in NY because they have guns and he wanted to see some action. He was an outcast among our friends because he was an asshole, was abusive, and a downright stingey git. He later went on to join the force and has since been booted out .....having people like this within and accepted into the force scares me tbh.

The gardai don't exactly recruit all the nice boys now do they
A lot of them come from bad area's themselves and imho it gives them only too much of a chance to get back at people/society in general due to some grudges they may have had in the past due to a crappy lifestyle/whatever it may be.

They have the power and they willfully abuse it.........but for how long?

Well i disagree with you, logic is right in alot of what he says.

You say that the gardi souldn't be released into an unsepecting public, jesus man id love to know where you grew up.

I know people that have been beaten in cells and had their heads kicked in, and for the most part they are total scum bags, of course your going to get afew the it shouldnt happen to, but its people in my area that have to deal with these scumbags on a daily basic, the type of people that would stab you for a fiver, you think what happens in a police stationios bad, often a gardi showing up has saved the life of the scum bag, most recently an accident with a stolen car where the "joy rider" nearly killed a 4 year old girl, i swear he was going to get lenched, hte gardi arrive bait the crap out of them and put them in a car to the nick.

still there were "do goodies" saying aye leave it out, they where met by a chorus of go feic yourself.

As for nice boys, your right they dont, you have to have some sort of street brain to survive as a gardi, know when to get involved and when not to. Nice boys soon become bastards and you know ive no problem with that.

basically theres two types of people throwing opinions around, those in nice middle to upper class areas and those from working class areas.

logic1 · 10-05-2002 07:15PM

Originally posted by Boston

basically theres two types of people throwing opinions around, those in nice middle to upper class areas and those from working class areas.

Now you said it. I think this is exactly where the problem lies.

.logic.

The Gopher · 10-05-2002 07:20PM

Kill the bastards!!!!!!Those unwashed hippy **** have no right to be marching down the middle of a street holding up traffic demanding nothing in particular.I could understand if they were fighting a cause.Your trying to make a difference in an anti war demo.Your trying to make a diff in a Republican demo,anti crime,legalise drugs,etc etc.But anti capitalism?They think that the rest of us will stop eating in Mc donalds because they trash London up once a year?They think that the govs will close down multinationals and liberate the whatever?
TOTAL F-UCKING MUPPETS

Kappar · 10-05-2002 08:04PM

I know people that have been beaten in cells and had their heads kicked in

As do I and to share with others that might not be aware of what exactly goes on in the back of a station or in a cell. Besides the punching, kicking etc People I know were put under mattresses and jumped on, hit with phone books and rolled up into carpets and kicked so as not to leave bruising.

and for the most part they are total scum bags, of course your going to get afew the it shouldnt happen to, but its people in my area that have to deal with these scumbags on a daily basic, the type of people that would stab you for a fiver

You know my feeling on this, the “nothing give you that right stance”.

you think what happens in a police stationios bad, often a gardi showing up has saved the life of the scum bag.

Finally the do something they are supposed to do .

most recently an accident with a stolen car where the "joy rider" nearly killed a 4 year old girl, i swear he was going to get lenched, hte gardi arrive bait the crap out of them and put them in a car to the nick.

and after saving there life they beta them up more in front of the crowed and mabey more down the station.

Nice boys soon become bastards

The nucleus of the problem.

and you know ive no problem with that.

Again another problem.

basically theres two types of people throwing opinions around, those in nice middle to upper class areas and those from working class areas.

While I feel I am from a working class area, might you, please, give me your opinion based on the following-

I go to a community school where I come into contact with Drugs, theft and other things of a similar nature. The school was recently the target of an arson attack, where the took people of the street of my area to the station and tried to coerce, with extreme force, evidence from people who knew nothing of the offenders.
I am by no means rich but not poor, unlike others I know in my area. This is just a brief summary.

Boston · 10-05-2002 08:15PM

Originally posted by Kappar
I go to a community school where I come into contact with Drugs, theft and other things of a similar nature.

what you want a medal? seen half the things i have you wouldnt show up for school.

The school was recently the target of an arson attack, where the took people of the street of my area to the station and tried to coerce, with extreme force, evidence from people who knew nothing of the offenders.
I am by no means rich but not poor, unlike others I know in my area. This is just a brief summary. [/B]

Sounds good to me.

You know my feeling on this, the “nothing give you that right stance”.

i suppose nothign gives you the right to stab someone but it still happens

Besides the punching, kicking etc People I know were put under mattresses and jumped on, hit with phone books and rolled up into carpets and kicked so as not to leave bruising.

what did they do? you tell me nothing im going to call you a liar, because gardi, unlike scum bags dont randomly attack people.

And despite what you might think there aren't idiots either, not going to risk a job over some litte git.

The nucleus of the problem.

Nice boys widows get a nice irish flag after the funeral.

Again another problem.

Why because i think scum bags, deserve what ever the gardi give them and often its not enough.

Let me ask you, these people you so quick to defend, are they your friends.

Kappar · 10-05-2002 08:43PM

What you want a medal? seen half the things i have you wouldnt show up for school.

No what I want was to show that I am not unaware disconnected with crime. And that I see a fair share of it.

Sounds good to me.

I thought it might.

i suppose nothign gives you the right to stab someone but it still happens

No it doesn’t, and yes it does still happen even when they get a kicking of the Garda, there tactics don’t seem to be working.

what did they do? you tell me nothing im going to call you a liar,

Some did, some didn’t. there was a group of people drinking, garda arrive take all they can down the station, beat them go back collect more.

because gardi, unlike scum bags dont randomly attack people.

Well from what we seen on Monday the do.

And despite what you might think there aren't idiots either, not going to risk a job over some litte git.

Risk job, surly not, they have the Garda complaints commission any way it wouldn’t be worth your while complaining because if you did your life would be made hell by the Garda.

Why because i think scum bags, deserve what ever the gardi give them and often its not enough.

Yes.

Let me ask you, these people you so quick to defend, are they your friends.

No although we have been taking down the station.

The_Bullman · 10-05-2002 09:02PM

Boston calm down mate.

As far as i can see there is seriously a need for an independant group to examine what the gardai do. there whould be a major overhawl of the irish justice system, to do this. now i agree that there is some scum out there and it needs to be dealt with, but havn't these people got rights too. Its seems to me that you don't think so. The gardai are not correctly trained to deal with a lot of situations that arrise in urban areas. From my experience they operate better in rural areas, except in Donegal where they are just wonderful at getting results. now I wonder if you think that i am from a working class background to think up this. maybe i am middle class. why does that matter??

and to The Gopher where do you get off saying that Irish people don't have a right to protest in their capital city. Holding up traffic. the protest was held on a bank holiday, i assume, to cause minimum problems for traffic and the like.

by the way. was there another protest that the gardai broke up on O' Connel street a while back. As far as i can remember they went in cracking heads at a group of cyclists around the abbey street area.

logic1 · 10-05-2002 09:04PM

Enough of the "I'm a hrad man because I've been taking down the station" crap. Cops don't drag away youngsters and beat them for drinking cans or any other minor offence and that's a fact.

Trust me I know what I'm talking about. Young lads, usually middle or middle-upper class like to brag to their mates about getting a beating off the giards inside and being hit with phonebooks so there's no bruises or being rolled up in a mattress (funniest I've heard in a while), it just doesn't happen.

Cops have little enough time as it is dealing with real criminals to be doing this ****.

I was raised in a council estate and right now about 90% of my old friends are locked up. I grew up me and my mates being hauled off to cells, I've never been hit unless I acted the right **** back to a cop, usually they just want to deal with you and send you off hoping never to see you again.

Some cops are vindictive bastards, sure and they have it in for certain people and would like nothing more than to lock that person up for life but to say cops go around handing out beatings to every kid that gets pullled for loitering or disturbing the peace is absolute tripe.

Cops are people like any others, they don't want a hard life but by **** do they get one. In my local station the spark plugs were taken out of the cops personal cars every day, the tires slashed every other week, big scratches along the sides broken windows, burned out even.

You have to look at all sides of the story here and there's always the guards side, the victim/criminals side and the truth.

Spreading rumours and urban myths helps no-one.

.logic.

Bard · 10-05-2002 09:17PM

Well said Logic1.

--

I'm curious - is there or isn't there an Irish equivalent of the United States Police force's Department of Internal Affairs?

(and I don't mean the Garda Complaints Office)...

Boston · 10-05-2002 09:59PM

there is bard

Kappar where you there? hw do you know if it was random, kinda stupid statement to make as it obviously wasnt random.

but havn't these people got rights too. Its seems to me that you don't think so.

Not at all, i just place a scum bags rights way down the list when it comes to my rights.

btw logic is right, do you know how hard it is to beat someone with a phone book?

Kappar · 11-05-2002 12:06AM

Enough of the "I'm a hrad man because I've been taking down the station" crap.

There is nothing hard about being taken down the station.

Cops don't drag away youngsters and beat them for drinking cans or any other minor offence and that's a fact.

Wrong. There is no point in trying to convince you, is there?

Trust me I know what I'm talking about.

Obviously you don’t.

Young lads, usually middle or middle-upper class like to brag to their mates about getting a beating off the giards inside and being hit with phonebooks so there's no bruises or being rolled up in a mattress (funniest I've heard in a while)

Yeah it’s right up there with the holocaust.

It just doesn't happen.

Ok. You won’t believe me if I try and convince you so I won’t bother.

Cops have little enough time as it is dealing with real criminals to be doing this ****.

There’s a problem, they don’t spend enough time at.

I was raised in a council estate and right now about 90% of my old friends are locked up. I grew up me and my mates being hauled off to cells, I've never been hit unless I acted the right **** back to a cop,

And you think that’s right?

Usually they just want to deal with you and send you off hoping never to see you again.

Well that’s not the case around here, maybe things have changed, but nearly every young person around here can name all the Garda in the local station by name and home much of a bastard he/she is.

Some cops are vindictive bastards, sure and they have it in for certain people and would like nothing more than to lock that person up for life but to say cops go around handing out beatings to every kid that gets pulled for loitering or disturbing the peace is absolute tripe.

I don’t think that I said “every kid”.

Cops are people like any others, they don't want a hard life but by **** do they get one. In my local station the spark plugs were taken out of the cops personal cars every day, the tires slashed every other week, big scratches along the sides broken windows, burned out even.

Could it be that, maybe, this was done is reprisal for a previous assault?

You have to look at all sides of the story here and there's always the guards side, the victim/criminals side and the truth.

I like that statement, it’s true.

Spreading rumours and urban myths helps no-one.

Neither does ignoring truth.

Kappar where you there? hw do you know if it was random, kinda stupid statement to make as it obviously wasnt random

Well when I use the word random I use the dictionary terms of, in no particular order, undistinguished, Unpredictable from what I seen and heard on Television, radio, people that were there and independent journalists they was, mostly, no particular pattern to who the Garda were hitting, they did not distinguish between people that were not co-operating to their expectations and those who were bystanders, onlookers and people that were leaving some were hit some were not so I fail to work out how you were to know if you were going to be hit or if you were not.

Calman · 11-05-2002 01:22AM

The gardai took video cameras or at least the batteries off the public there because they knew they went overboard.

That's also why didn't release the cctv video footage of the event to the press.

gardai right or wrong to batton students

gardai reactiion to last weeks march 64 votes

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