Bouncers-are they scum or what?

Turner · 28-03-2002 03:21AM

Doorman I think are very protective of the club/pub they are working in as a result of the pressure they get from their venue manager.

I have worked and still work on the door of concerts of which have been vicar st/Olympia and other clubs/venues in Dublin and my Boss's opinion is, no matter what state or how much of a scumbug they are, "IF THEY HAVE MONEY LET THEM IN".

If these "doormen" actually owned the pubs/clubs they provide security for im sure they wouldnt be refusing upwards of 100 people a night at 8 or 10 euro a head.

The man i work for is always on the door and if we even thought of refusing someone on the grounds of what they are wearing we would get the boot. And if someone looks young he says "Theyre not my kids i dont give a ****"

The managers/owners of pubs and clubs in Dublin need to get themselves down to the door and watch what theyre bouncers are at cause they could be costing them a fortune.

Shinji · 28-03-2002 04:11AM

Like I said. I don't drink in pubs that have bouncers on the door. Their presence automatically detracts from the overall conviviality IMHO.

Well, you're entitled to your opinion. I can't say it's something I've ever noticed personally. That being said, I can't say I've ever been refused entry anywhere, either.

The fact that they are there indicates that the management has such contempt for its potential customers that they subject them to an arbitrary screening before they let them in.

I don't know where you live, but in the past few years I've lived in Dublin and London, and I know for damn sure that *I* have a hell of a lot of contempt for a fair few of the "potential customers" roaming the streets at nine o'clock of a Friday night.

It's an apalling practice and I will no longer endorse it. I ask and encourage others to adopt a similar attitude.

Good luck to you getting anyone to give a damn, frankly.

Of course if you're such a wuss that you don't feel safe unless some guy has looked comtemptuously at you as you slink through his door and identified you as being no physical threat to him whatsoever.......maybe you should have stayed at home.

Ah, so it's the macho thing? Well here's an interesting concept - I don't go out on the beer to prove the existence of my wang, I go out to have a laugh and a bit of craic with friends. Odd one that, I know, but there you go.

Tell you what and all, I've never "slunk" through the door of a pub, and I've rarely clocked any kind of a look from a bouncer other than a nod and "evening" in response to my own greeting. Strikes me you've got so much of an issue with them that it's affecting your behaviour...

Oh, and given the varying physical stature of the people I go drinking with, I think it's safe to say that it's sod all to do with "physical threat" either.

Still, that's an interesting hang-up you've got there fella!

Karl Hungus · 28-03-2002 05:51AM

Originally posted by Lump
Ok, as the only bouncer (that I know of) on these boards

Nope.
I've worked as a bouncer before.
Mainly at local gigs and such.

Originally posted by PORNAPSTER
What I'd like to know Lump... is why moshing is not allowed during such songs as Smells like teen Spirit. What are we supposed to do? Dance like those e'd up gob****es or just sit down and move our heads a little bit.

As a part-timer, I'd say mosh your brains out!

But then again, I'm just there at gigs, so that's what you're meant to do.

Making sure people pay in, and grab the skangers by the scruff of the neck, and drag 'em out the door if they try and sneak in, or cause trouble.
And of course, checking a few ID's, unless it's an all-ages.

Lump · 28-03-2002 07:32AM

ok, picture this, a club with 3 to 4 hundred people on the dance floor, then 20 people starts "Moshing" and in their pissed state they accidently knock some one over, the person they knock is a real scumbag that the bouncers gave a chance to behave. But this said scumbag is now really pissed because you bumped into him, so he decided to have a go. So now a little argument breaks out, and some of your friends jump in, then some of his. Fair enough, the bouncers will probably take care of it, but it will give the establishment a bad name etc,.

John

cournioni · 28-03-2002 07:08PM

Originally posted by Lump
ok, picture this, a club with 3 to 4 hundred people on the dance floor, then 20 people starts "Moshing" and in their pissed state they accidently knock some one over, the person they knock is a real scumbag that the bouncers gave a chance to behave. But this said scumbag is now really pissed because you bumped into him, so he decided to have a go. So now a little argument breaks out, and some of your friends jump in, then some of his. Fair enough, the bouncers will probably take care of it, but it will give the establishment a bad name etc,.

John

I hear what your sayin but do you not think that there should be some communication between the bouncers and the dj's in cases like this? I mean, the dj is hardly gonna play something like teen spirit just to get ravers out dancing. Theyre looking to accomodate for people like myself that is big into metal and what used to be the seattle scene. The bouncers should be prepared for people moshing and should be on their toes.

Besides the skangers that usually are out on the floor leave when such moshing songs come on. That was what happened when the bouncer grabbed me. There was no ravers out on the floor. Everyone was moshing and he just picked me out of the bunch and I ****ed him off for it. I cant remember a fight as a result of moshing either. So I dunno...

WhiteWashMan · 28-03-2002 07:34PM

im happy to say pornapster that you and i will very rarely be found drinking in the same establishment.
being paid enough to afford beer in a more expensive bar allows me the privilage of not meeting people like you...

Executive Steve · 28-03-2002 07:50PM

Originally posted by blondi
bouncers piss me off to some degree , many of them have a big 'goodfellows' thing going on and is evident when you end up in a 'piss-pot pill house' like Switch or similar dance venues whose names I thankfully can't remember. It seems they can fulfill their pre-pubecant fantasies of being in an 'Al Capone' like Firm, conceal and assist organised drug dealing,and they will be forever adored by the kind of brain dead scum that go there, sad ****s.......
(the peace process has a lot to answer for , for not 'de-mobbing' the troops psychologically before just sending them home, or is it that they have they not gone away ?)

who are you talking about in switch new kid? they fired a rake of the old crowd and got new ones in to get rid of the drugs and that and found that the result was in drunken scumbags coming to their club and because they started a policy of handing ppl over to the cops they found that the cops were on their back all the time. result? all the friendly know the score know when to turn a blind eye down on you like a tonne of bricks if theres GENUINE trouble bouncers, bar one, and all the ppl who used to be regulars at switch myself included now drink across the river in voodoo or up at the shelter. are there less drugs there now? no! is it full of scum? well the crowd you get is as good as the crowd the bouncers let in. and if that means that it looks like al capone to some muppet passing by than thats what it takes to keep a club going.

Executive Steve · 28-03-2002 08:00PM

Originally posted by azezil

Pedigree Corner - Somewhere in Laois (your kinda place? )

aah pedigree corner aka "the turning point" n'est-ce pas? how i miss it, its been many a year.... if you thought the fights and free love were a bit much inside you should have seen it outside....
and of course the first thing you did when the music stopped was leg it out side with your top off to beat some sense into whoever was foreign enough to not come from your village... lol those were the days... remember the one legged bloke who used to sell hash up at the back under those dreadful murals? castor troy you ought to check it out some time i think...

Mills · 28-03-2002 09:16PM

Originally posted by [cm]tyranny

who are you talking about in switch new kid? they fired a rake of the old crowd and got new ones in to get rid of the drugs and that and found that the result was in drunken scumbags coming to their club and because they started a policy of handing ppl over to the cops they found that the cops were on their back all the time. result? all the friendly know the score know when to turn a blind eye down on you like a tonne of bricks if theres GENUINE trouble bouncers, bar one, and all the ppl who used to be regulars at switch myself included now drink across the river in voodoo or up at the shelter. are there less drugs there now? no! is it full of scum? well the crowd you get is as good as the crowd the bouncers let in. and if that means that it looks like al capone to some muppet passing by than thats what it takes to keep a club going.

English Motherfúcker.

Do you speak it?

cournioni · 28-03-2002 10:51PM

Originally posted by WhiteWashMan
im happy to say pornapster that you and i will very rarely be found drinking in the same establishment.
being paid enough to afford beer in a more expensive bar allows me the privilage of not meeting people like you...

Fair enough.

phobos · 29-03-2002 02:50AM

Awwwww

, you see all it takes is one muppet to write something stupid, and everyone jumps in. Pornapster, I'm with WWM on this one. I have been reading some of your posts on the topic (or branching irrelevance) in disgust. You seem to be stereotyping every raver, dance head, whatever; as a pill popping scumbag that looks for nothing but trouble. I will not defend all ravers, but it's not fair to class someone's behaviour based on their musical tastes. Thankfully the guys on the door don't. I know this might be a little off topic (hence the "branching irrelevance" bit), but I would prefer you to either, think before you speak, or keep your opinions to yourself.

I don't hold grudges against people that listen to metal/whatever music, actually most of my best friends do. I don't look @ moshing as stupid, I actually get a buzz looking at people enjoying themselves. I'm a Dj by the way.

I'm sure I will have support from Trojan, and OJ, to say the least on this one.

I will say no more :rolleyes:

;-phobos-)

cournioni · 29-03-2002 12:08PM

Originally posted by phobos
Awwwww , you see all it takes is one muppet to write something stupid, and everyone jumps in. Pornapster, I'm with WWM on this one. I have been reading some of your posts on the topic (or branching irrelevance) in disgust. You seem to be stereotyping every raver, dance head, whatever; as a pill popping scumbag that looks for nothing but trouble. I will not defend all ravers, but it's not fair to class someone's behaviour based on their musical tastes. Thankfully the guys on the door don't. I know this might be a little off topic (hence the "branching irrelevance" bit), but I would prefer you to either, think before you speak, or keep your opinions to yourself.

Alright I was wrong to say that e'd up thingy. That was a reference to some of em who are e'd up and just go plain crazy to whatever comes on. Your right. But I didn't say that they were all scumbags looking for trouble. That was just a reference to a minority of the people in the building (they don't have to be ravers/dance heads etc.). I am not judging anyone on their music tastes at all if you read my post again you will see that.

When I said skangers I was just replying to something Lump said about skangers looking for a fight with the people who are out moshing.

I don't hold grudges against people that listen to metal/whatever music, actually most of my best friends do. I don't look @ moshing as stupid, I actually get a buzz looking at people enjoying themselves.

Thats always good to hear.

Tazz T · 29-03-2002 02:13PM

Interesting thread as I was denied entry to a certain drinking establishment in Central Dublin last night. This is one I frequent at least twice a week and is normally open very late. I was unaware of the early closing hours last night, but arrived before 11.30. When I asked 'was it early hours tonight?' the response was a fine selection of expletives, saying 'go away'.

It wouldn't've hurt to just explain politely that the bar wasn't allowed to serve past midnight even though it was blatantly well before that time. Surely bouncers should be there to impart such info and look after the customers.

Incidentally I had no problem getting into a bar down the street 15 minutes later which was also closing early.

SheroN · 29-03-2002 02:29PM

Yea i've the same complaint as Tazz, I know they're doing their job and all that. But why do they have to be so ignorant?

blondi · 29-03-2002 04:17PM

OK it was unfair to single out the 'SWITCH' club it's no worse than any other, and comments re: pill popping scum was bang out of order ! GUILTY on those two counts , but my real concern is bouncers and not ravers and my 'biggoted insunitations' were sourced in my despising of dance culture, and so once again , I retract those remarks...
However to get to the topic concerned, I have wittnessed some horriffic actions carried out by doormen/bouncers over the years and have picked up very sinister vibes from these incidents and the newspaper articles re: questionable work history of 'SOME' doormen/bouncers .
Everyone has their price $$, including doormen/bouncers and it is this that concerns me.
The dogs in the street know that in 'SOME' premises bouncers are bought off by those wishing to peddle their 'wares' in clubs, and this begs the question of 'who' or 'what organisation' exactly is running/controlling some clubs, and how this services their interests.

phobos · 29-03-2002 07:49PM

I have heard stories about bouncers being brutal to the clients, over stupid things, but only one really pi$$ed me off.

We were in Cj's nite club in Salthill (was the greatest underage disco of all time, but we were only about 17, so it was all good.) The bouncers knew that practically everyone was underage, but only turned away about 5-10% of the people who queued. Anyway in the club twas about 12:30am, and a bottle came flying across the air, and hit my mate plain in the side of the face. The culprits did not try and hide the fact that they were guilty. We thought that it was meant for someone else because we didn't even know these guys at the time. My mate turned around and let out a string of "WTF, :mad: Fukkin bolllox" etc., anyway one guy came over (the local hardman), and squared up to my mate. Just as things were about to get physical, a bouncer came out of the blue, and grabbed my mate, dragging him towards the door. We followed of course. He was brought out a side door of the premisis (away from cameras), and had the **** bet in to him by 2 of them outside. We tried to get out to him, but another bouncer inside insisted that they were just talking to him, trying to figure out what happened. We accepted this, but drank beside the door, awaiting his return. It was now about 20mins later, and there was no sign of him. We collected our jackets, and went outside. There was no sign of him, or any bouncers outside for that matter.

Anyway we all walked up to my gaff, and gave the lad a ring. He had just gotten home in a cab, and he said that he could hardly walk after the beating he received. His oul lad came on the phone to me, roaring "WTF happened" etc. As you do.

We could not go to the cop station because we were all underage, and shouldn't have been in there. But I think that's well out of order. If that club operated correctly it wouldn't have let in underage kids, hence it couldn't use it's advantage against punters.

Unfortunately the clubs gone now (for the past 3-4 years), because that very mate of mine who got his head kicked in, is a cop now. Serving his time in Ballyfermot.

;-phobos-)

azezil · 29-03-2002 08:11PM

Originally posted by PORNAPSTER
Besides the skangers that usually are out on the floor leave when such moshing songs come on. That was what happened when the bouncer grabbed me. There was no ravers out on the floor. Everyone was moshing and he just picked me out of the bunch and I ****ed him off for it. I cant remember a fight as a result of moshing either. So I dunno...

oh i see because i like to dance, and listen to fast music i'm automatically a "skanger", how nice.

Shinji · 30-03-2002 02:23AM

oh i see because i like to dance, and listen to fast music i'm automatically a "skanger", how nice.

I'm sure we could come up with other reasons for you being a skanger if you really want, azezil

SheroN · 30-03-2002 02:59PM

We could not go to the cop station because we were all underage, and shouldn't have been in there. But I think that's well out of order. If that club operated correctly it wouldn't have let in underage kids, hence it couldn't use it's advantage against punters.

I think the cops wouldn't hold anything against you or your friends. It's the clubs responsibility to make sure there's no underagers in the club. Nothing to do with you. I think they'd view an assualt as a bigger deal than having a under agers in their club in any case.

30-03-2002 03:45PM

I've been reading through the various posts by many of the people and I agree with a lot of what's been said, both in favour of bouncers and against them too.

When I go out to a pub, I feel like many of you at times (ie. the bouncers shouldn't be there and that they're out to get us, because it gives them some perverse pleasure to refuse us entry) and, at times, I am justified thinking this.

But, after reading some of Lump's posts, I find it great to think that there are bouncers here on the posts and who actually seem to be sound lads (thanks for explaining some of the bouncers reasons, Lump).

When I get into a bar and the bouncers go so far as to say, "How are you?" or "Evening", that makes me feel great, safe and in a good mood for drinking. That's a sign of a good attitude.

Bouncers on doors can be overwhelming in their attitude and we, by now, all know this. Some may be too extreme.
But a lot of them now (as over the past two years, I've matured and grown to respect them, not hate them) are sound, some will assist you if you are too drunk and help you out the door.

I think bouncers do have a place watching over the door, because the last thing people want in a bar is serious trouble and the bouncers are there to prevent potential trouble makers entering the establishment.
But when I get refused (i don't as much now but it happens) I am initially pissed off but then, when I get in somewhere else, you think to yourself, "What's the point anymore in getting pissed off?"...you could go to the place the next week and get in without so much as a "ID please".

Lump · 31-03-2002 02:30AM

FFS, this thread is kinda gone off the rails a bit. Phobes, I'd say that your incident ran deeper then what just happened that night. I'm sure the bouncers were mates off the guy that threw the bottle. Which doesnt make it any better. Also about bouncers been impolite, when you have 20, 30, 40, and upwards of people coming up to you after hours, or just before you close, you tend to get a little pissed off telling drunking ****s to go away. Since most off them dont leave without giving the normal rant about being the pubs best customer, when you only spend 20 quid a week in there. You dont relise how stupid and annoying drunken people are when you are stone cold sober. The usual, I want to get a mate, I have to get my coat/ bag/ bitch, I need to go to the toilet, doesnt cut it. I dont know why people even try to get in to bars after hours..... THE ****ING BAR IS CLOSED..... you wont get a drink. Or the people that sit at the bar with one mouth full left in there pint glass, which they have had there for 45 minutes. The phrase " Fúck out and go some where else you tight bástard" comes to mind. Any way...... it can be a very annoying job, especially if you start off in a bad mood, of something happens during the night to put you in a bad mood.

John

cournioni · 31-03-2002 10:14PM

Originally posted by azezil

oh i see because i like to dance, and listen to fast music i'm automatically a "skanger", how nice.

*sigh* Will you please read my posts properly. Scroll up...

Anyway... will yez stay on the topic.

kiffer · 01-04-2002 02:51AM

I have'nt got a problem with bouncers asking questions like "are you having good night", "how are you doing", "have you any ID." I find "Where are you coimg from?" tends to be asked in a well not so freindly maner... which i often end up taking abit to literaly ... answering things like , home, Dinner in Temple Bar . My house , insert name of other pub/club here.
the thing that realy pisses me of are bouncers that either dont say anything or dont react to the fact that you are walking up to the door. or dont look at you and ask for ID. while leaning against the door frame looking at their own shoes...

ok bouncer types and people who have no problems with bouncers , what do you do/say when you walk up to a door with two bouncers that dont react to the fact that you have arived ? they're standing in the door way so you cant just walk in and the the fact they are in effect ignoring you makes it very intimidating to say "evening." it totaly throws me ... they just stand there, it would be ok if they where looking at me . then I could say hello with out a problem but it's like i dont exist... arghhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lump · 01-04-2002 04:32AM

I know for a fact that I say hello to everyperson that walks into where I work.

John

cournioni · 01-04-2002 02:51PM

Originally posted by kiffer
ok bouncer types and people who have no problems with bouncers , what do you do/say when you walk up to a door with two bouncers that dont react to the fact that you have arived ? they're standing in the door way so you cant just walk in and the the fact they are in effect ignoring you makes it very intimidating to say "evening." it totaly throws me ... they just stand there, it would be ok if they where looking at me . then I could say hello with out a problem but it's like i dont exist... arghhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thats the type of situation where you should keep staring ahead and not say anything. Otherwise you are likely to be stopped because they can sense that you are intimidated and you start to get nervous. That happened me once, when I didn't have an id and I ended up having to say my date of birth. Its a bit of a ****.

But I agree with you... most bouncers are very friendly and say hello, etc etc. Thats the way they should all be.

nanook · 03-04-2002 08:04AM

I have to agree with lump on this one. I used to work on the door of a nightclub, and i have to say the amount of abuse that you get for doing a job is not funny. You have to deal with everybody and his/her mother on the door of a club. You get it from all angles, you get it from the nutter who thinks he is getting in even though you have eight big ****ers (sorry about the language) on the door but he was getting through, you get it from the ones who threw a bottle the week before and where that drunk didnt remember, you get it from the ass hole that spat at you for asking him not to bring drink on the dance floor, you get it from the kids you know are not 18 and have no ID to proove it and what's more you have it from the parents of little johnny and mary who didnt get into the club.

Sorry about this rant but i have to say i am sick at the abuse that security get, they are only doing a job, they are trying to do a job (before i get slatted here i will agree that some do not do it properely and are power tripping ba$tards)and it is not the easiest job in the world but at the end of the day it is a job. Think of the guy who has to do it because he has a family to feed and there is no other work, some door staff make good money and some dont but at the end of the day with all the sh!t that they put up with they dont make enough.

Next time you are going to give them greif, think about what has happened and think if i was in their shoes what would i do.

Hairy Homer · 09-04-2002 01:34PM

Really, I do.

First off, I was not talking about clubs where there is frenetic dancing activity and there is (perhaps) a case to be made for keeping out people who look to be a little 'exuberant', shall we say, so that life and limb may be protected.

I was talking about pubs. EG Searsons in Upper Baggot St, which is the ONLY pub in the neighbourhood with a bouncer on the door at weekends. Why? Because the current owners spent a fortune acquiring and renovating it a few years ago and now want to make it appear to a certain class of clientele that no riff raff will be tolerated.

This has got nothing to do with security. It'spure petty snobbery. It also puts bouncers in a position of arbitrary power, and like with any such position, such power tends to go to their heads. Let's face it, there probably are some intelligent bouncers but brains are not exactly a prerequisite for the job.

What really makes me despair is the acceptance among some posters here that having bouncers block the door is a necessity. It's the same sort of paranoia that has many American defend their insane gun laws. 'We gotta have them. It's dangerous out there.' In fact Belfast at the height of the troubles had a lower murder rate than most American cities.

The reason so many people get shot in America is that so many of them have guns. Ditto with bouncers, the more threatening behaviour there is, the more trouble you will have. Boys will be boys. Or spelt another way, yobs will be yobs, earpieces in their ears or not.

If you don't have enough self respect (this has got nothing to do with being macho, Shinji) to go out for a drink without feeling that obnoxious behaviour on the door is necessary to safgeuard your personal well being, then you really should see a psychiatrist.

It is insulting to somebody to deny access to what should be a 'public house' simply on the arbitrary say so of some well muscled type. If you really feel bouncers are necessary, then it should be a requirement not an optional extra for them to be outwardly civil to their customers, to stand aside and open the doors as a matter of course, not just when they're feeling confident and only to restrict access on the most clear and undeniable of grounds.

Way to go the man who succesfully sued that dive in the centre of Dublin for refusing him entrance on the grounds that he was 'too old' Hopefully, it won't be too long before I will be able to do the same.

Ser · 09-04-2002 01:51PM

oh u ferkin pussys, stand up for your selfs or you will b walked all over. ffs, get some balls, dont take **** from anyone, even if he is 'bigger' then you. sounds liek some of you need a good slap anyway to wake up.

saw some fellas getting mugged on the tube other day (again) infront of alot of people (again), i cant understand how they let ppl do that to them, they just excepted it, strange

four_star · 09-04-2002 01:55PM

that's the kind of talk that get you taken down an ally by a bouncer and rightly f**ked.

Ser · 09-04-2002 01:56PM

i met some dickhead bouncers in dublin though tbh, my south london accent didnt help much, dunno how they continue though, them sort of bouncers r killed here in no time.

now 'doormen/women' i meeet stick there tongue right up my ass, where it should be, im the customer, here to spend my money.

enjoy

Bouncers-are they scum or what?

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