Why am I Irish?

Excelsior · 18-01-2002 10:27AM

I think Denmark is better Victor. Now all I have to do is find a girl from Copenhagen to marry. That way I can finally get citizenship.

Washout · 18-01-2002 10:40AM

Well My parents are from India but I was born and raised here....

I have never ever really considered myself to be Irish. My race is Indian and thats what I am.

But then recently I have been thinking race has nothing to do with ones nationality.

Maybe there is a distinction between both.

maybe americans are completely wrong for claiming to be irish when there isnt a race that is Irish?

I dont know confusion has set in

WhiteWashMan · 18-01-2002 11:00AM

Originally posted by Medogsbstfrnd
First off, I appreciate the candor and courage of Jaden to even raise the questions he raised with regard to national identity.

actually, im more surprised. i expect there was a lot of alcahol abuse immediately prior to this posting...

Originally posted by Medogsbstfrnd
And next, I think []ceman's litany of universal citizenship in the human family was well-done.

indeed. heart rending stuff alright.

Originally posted by Medogsbstfrnd
I'm glad I got to overhear this thread as I've spent the last week asking what it means to be Irish--except I am an American who is asking and I'm not asking because I'm Irish-American. I am interested in your country, its history, its literature and religion and I just made the effort to spend four days in your country. That is a very brief visit and earns me no right to say anything. I enjoyed my time in Dublin (with a day at Bray) and found people to be kind and generous. I'm truly amazed at how many young people are teeming in your capital city and wonder what it is they live toward and what animates them, not only as human beings but particularly as Irish men and women.

you can spend a hundred years trying to get to know what makes the irish tick, and still be surprised when you think you know it all. but i would say that about any nation, any majority, any minority, any mob, bunch, or gang of people. at the end of the day, people have the free will to do things. and they usually will.
by the way, most of the young people in dublin are probably foreign. as for they live for. who knows. what do you live for?
what does anyone live for?
to be happy?
to be loved?
to live a good life?
as a nation, irish are no different than english, americans, germans, japanese, australians. just a collection of people with funny accents and different viewpionts.

Originally posted by Medogsbstfrnd

Gooey sentiment aside, I think Jaden is on point to assert something for his particularity and it seems to me, he values his birthright. I'm not sure one can feel a kinship with the rest of the world if he cannot own his own citizenship in his native land.

one shoudl be proud of where one comes from.
surely you should not be embaressed to stand up and say 'i am irish'. being from a nation doesnt nesseceraily give you the stereotypical characteristics which are bestowed upon that grouping of people. i think youve missed bens point here. hes not saying hes not proud and he doesnt feel irish, i think its aimed more towards the type of people who 'aspire' if you will to be irish through some rediculous proxy. a very good example would be irish americans.
if you have read any of your 'irish -american' literature in the states you would soon realise that the view points of these people are far removed from the viewpoints of the irish popualtion.
recently irish americans were appalled that there brethren back hom ein ireland didnt supports the bombings of afgahnistan etc. they felt betrayed. there were rumblings of 'ohhh, my granddaddy sent money back to the family in ireland and a hundred years later theyve turned on us. you dont see people in ireland giving money to fund terrorist groups up north. you do in america, and its well documented.
irish americans are also incredibly patronising to the point of being offensive. you wonder why so many dislike them. just ask about.
every day we get gangs of americans who claim their great grand pappys came from cork. id like to know why there is any one still left in cork. i suspect close to 20 million people left cork one day to sail to boston. and i think 40 million must have arrived. gee, cool, that doesnt that we are forever in someones debt for leaving the country or that we should share their interests.
this is the type of 'irishness' that i think jaden, and a lot of people have a problem with.

Originally posted by Medogsbstfrnd
At Shannon Airport during a lay-over on my way back to the States, I picked up Seamus Heaney's Oxford lectures on poetry entitled, The Redress of Poetry. In the last chapter, "Frontiers of Writing," Heaney wrestles with his Irish identity (he was born in Northern Ireland, a Catholic). If you have access to it I think you'd find it interesting. He writes:
As Professor Roy Foster writes in his introduction to his recent book of essays on the ways that British and Irish history have intersected: 'We need not give up our own claims on Irishness in order to conceive of it as a flexible definition. And in an age of exclusivist jihads to east and west, the notion that people can reconcile more than one cultural identity may have much to recommend it.'"

hehe.
unfortunately the irish mentality isnt as flighty as the american.
its something that the americans are put down for time and again, but i thihnk its nice. we dont tend to have long philisophical discussions, or quote poetry, or enter into long theological debates. no really we dont.
the americans do tend to be a bit more 'literate' and like all that kind of stuff. i'll call it being a more rounded person.
irelands people are driven by something entirely. a more landed people should i say.
by the way, its a lovely thought, but the truth is alot more complex.

Originally posted by Medogsbstfrnd

I think I hear Foster's words in some of the comments in this thread. Your identity is a Celtic knot. You are twined around and through by various races and histories. That is not unlike my own wrestling match with American identity. I will say this: this thread reveals that Irish identity is often expressed as what it is NOT to be Irish. Okay. That is a basic of cultural anthropology. But I would find it interesting to hear Irish identity expressed not by who you are not but by who you ARE. It's a difference worth the telling I am sure.

often i wonder if finding your identity has a place in irelands culture.
the culture has always been we are irish.
this country has been occupied for 750 years.
some of it still is

you will find that countries that have been oppressed have a populus that are very nationalistc and proud and very sarcastic.
we already know where we came from.
we know we are irish.
on the other hand. the americans have never been oppressed. they have never had fear. they dont know their boundries like other nations. they have always been an aggressive dominant country. and it deosnt tend to leave you a lot of time to think about your identity...

Ireland is a $hithole, why would anyone be proud to be from here?

becuase you are young and you hve yet to learn what pride is.

Slydice · 18-01-2002 11:28AM

Right, here we go :

1. Bleh.

2. I consider myself Irish, can't say why I just do, it's a feeling that because I was born here and have been in Ireland for the 19 years of my life minus maybe a total of 3 months max for foreign holidays.I have bit of the language, played the irish games, participated in irish culture etc...

3. I consider people from Scotland as being Scottish, Wales -> Welch, England -> English etc... Northern Ireland -> Northern Irish.

4. Tottally wrecking the last part of 3, I consider the Northern Irish to be Irish as they were born/live in/ are from the Island of Ireland.

5. Whats the difference between Americans with Roots from Ireland and Native Americans in comparison to Americans with Roots from Ireland and People who were Born and Live in Ireland.

6. Bleh, (must stop reading humanities stuph)

bonkey · 18-01-2002 12:07PM

Originally posted by WhiteWashMan

Ireland is a $hithole, why would anyone be proud to be from here?
becuase you are young and you hve yet to learn what pride is.

Bravo - best comment I've seen here in ages.

Personally, I dont know what it "takes" to be Irish. I dont think there are any hard and definite rules, so I'm going to look at it from s slightly perspective.

I was in the bar the other night, overhearing a conversation, where someone was saying that they were half-Irish. This always cracks me up.

This person is not claiming to be of Irish descent, but rather that they are half-Irish. How can you be half-Irish? So I asked him, and apparently his grandmother was Irish.

He was a big guy, so I didnt correct his maths

Anyway, we talked a bit more, and I was eventually telling him how Ireland seems to be one of those few countries that so many people want to be associated with for some reason.
Hence "half-irish", rather than "partly of Irish descent".

I mean, your mother was female, and your father male. Does this make you half-male, and half-female? I think not. Same for religion. I dont know anyone who claims to be half-catholic, and only ever heard one person claim to be half-jewish.

You cant be half-Irish. WWM, by my reckoning, is "adopted Irish" and natively Australian. As for supporting Australia in rugby - we have to allow that - half the Irish seem to support foreign soccer teams

So, when someone claims to be Irish, they should (hopefully) be talking about their contry of origin, or what they consider to be their cultural home. For clarity - by cultural home I mean the land where they have lived long enough to consider that culture their own. Culture,m of course, being more than language and music.

If they mean that their parents came from that country, but they themselves have done little more than see it on a map and visited for a holiday once, then they are talking through their proverbials. As for those who purchase passports - they are not Irish in anything but the legal sense of the word, until they make it their cultural home as well.

jc

Dr. Loon · 18-01-2002 12:23PM

Originally posted by chernobyl
Ireland is a $hithole, why would anyone be proud to be from here?
I dont care to elabourate anymore on this, as im sure anyone here who is from ireland can concur with me.

I'm from Ireland I don't concur. Bóllox.

my gripes with ireland is it lack of materialistic pleasures.

This is sort of what I like about Ireland... why don't you bugger off to America if you want "materialistic" pleasures.
What age are you?

mike65 · 18-01-2002 08:01PM

This thread can be boiled down to the following-

Is being Irish (or whatever) informed by where you were born or where you are in your head. If its the former you're on solid ground if its the latter you're a romantic fool! (or a Yank!).

I'd prefere not to be so classified in the first place, after all
no-one picked thier birth place and those who whitter on about feeling Irish or anything, having been bought up in a different country and culture have plainly just have got swept away by a passing fancy, which will pass once the weather turns and
someone cuts you dead in a check out queue/pub/bus/name your own location.

Mike.

Hannah · 19-01-2002 03:51PM

am i irish?,
i was born in england to english parents and lived there til i was 10, when we moved to ireland where i lived til i was 19, i am currently attending college in wales. 3 of my 4 grandparents are irish and the other is welsh. i speak workable irish, i attended school in ireland for 9 years, i currently hold an english passport, but i am also entitled to an irish passport.
over here in wales i am regarded as irish, at home in ireland i am, if anything, regarded as english....
so what's the verdict?
i'm not all that bothered either way, it is all a part of who i am and putting a label on it won't, as far as i can see, change that, for better or for worse.
it's quite weird, when you're in a situation like mine you can't win, but then you can't lose either.....

also for further discussion on the topic you might want to look at last years leaving cert (hons) paper as the theme of that was very much along the same vein as this topic. (much to my dismay!)

deco · 19-01-2002 05:38PM

People, people...we can go on all day about the legal requirements that are needed to be offically recognised as an Irish citizen.

Just because your a citizen of a country dosen't make you that natioality. A nation is a collection of people sharing the same culture. Ergo you belong to the country whose culture you share. Now culture can be defined as the set of common characteristics that people share eg. music, language, customs and as such can unite people in a country who come from different cultures eg USA.

WhiteWashMan · 19-01-2002 07:09PM

Originally posted by deco
People, people...we can go on all day about the legal requirements that are needed to be offically recognised as an Irish citizen.
.

who said anything about legal?
i think the main idea running though the thread is what makes a person a perticular nationality, not what passport they hold.

Chowmein · 19-01-2002 07:37PM

Ok i am a holder of an Irish passport, i have lived here for all my life. But I am born of an Irish mother and English Father. Another thing that some people seem to think I need to have is to speak Irish, which i can not, due to a learning disability/diffaculty called Dislexiea. So dose haveing a learning disability/diffaculty disalow me from being Irish? If so then Ireland is not realy a place i would want to be apart of, because any Goverment or Country that says i am not irish is as good as the Nazi goverment that murderd Jewish people, any one with a Birth defect or learning disability/diffaculty.

I have NEVER considerd my self to be any thing but Irish, every one of my family considers me to be Irish, both English and Irish sides.

Lennoxschips · 19-01-2002 07:41PM

You cant be half-Irish

Why can't somebody can't be half Irish? I know somebody who has one Dutch parent and one Irish parent, I'm not going to deny them the right to call themselves half Irish!

Makaveli · 19-01-2002 09:49PM

Being able to speak Irish has nothing to do with being Irish imo. A fair few of my friends cant speak a word of it, like they failed pass in the leaving cert. These are people born and bred in Ireland, both parents Irish, the whole 9 yards, they are Irish.
For these Irish/Americans it would appear that being Irish for them is like a fashion statement or a trend, in reality it doesnt mean jack **** to them, if it really did they would follow up on their so called claim by studying Irish culture and at least coming here.
Although when it comes to studying Irish culture I can pretty much say I've only really learned about Irish culture through school...
So I dunno, but to be honest if I was to move to America today and live there the rest of my life I wouldnt be American, I would still be Irish.
This is all too philosophical for me, I'm gonna shut up now

amp · 20-01-2002 04:05PM

I've a friendly, relaxed attitude towards life, I drink too much and have a fondness for potato based foodstuffs.

QED

Victor · 20-01-2002 10:06PM

A friend was born in San Francisco, to an Irish father and a Greek mother, he spent 7 years in SF and then moved to Brussels, spent a few years and then came to Dublin. He considers himself an "Irish-American" and takes both countries with a grain of salt.

Dr. Loon · 21-01-2002 10:33AM

Originally posted by amp
I've a friendly, relaxed attitude towards life, I drink too much and have a fondness for potato based foodstuffs.

QED

I reckon that sums it up really...

My aunt was born in Ireland but has spent most of her life in The States, I think she knows more about Irish culture than anyone else in the family! It's an American thing, most Americans who claim to be Irish in some way know a hell of alot more about our culture than I do...

Who really gives a fúck?
I've a Scottish mother and an Irish father... when I feel like it I'm half Scots - half Irish..... other times I'm Irish!

Trev M · 21-01-2002 02:21PM

jaaayyysssuuuuuusss!!

Finally got through that mass thread...some really great posts there it has to be said.

I myself am 100% Irish, to the point of rediculousness sometimes...for example I've always owned a flag, its in my car....just in case there's an outburst of mass public patriotism or something I dunno.

Being Irish for me is a mixed bag of emotions and thinking about our country, particularly when away kinda makes me sad.....we're kinda sad in a way really....always seem to have the tough draw, the shortest straw and always the underdog that has to graft for everything, we like feeling sorry for ourselves it would appear.

Then sometimes Im fierce proud of the place, our fantastic heritage, the fact that we are so different despite all the history of repression that hangs around our necks like the proverbial albatross....I think this has a huge bearing on our Identity perhaps it shouldn't be but at the same time we can't make it go away.

I also feel ashamed too....some people here sound like being Irish is like being part of some exclusive club, chopping and disecting people into catagories... its feckin wierd if ya ask me...of course no one did but its lunchtime and Im bored so

Today's Ireland has a lot to be frowned upon, I can't believe how racist a lot of people are, I feel utterly helpless when you see the way some people are treated in Dublin...particularly by the civil service (little dig there).
Our politicians are an absolute mess, the scams and payoffs, the tribunals, the greed its never ending.
We've also become greedy feckers too, I live in Dublin and have felt the place change dramatically over the last 10 years. Dublin is so Cosmo or something, full of yuppie wannabe ejits....

I know this post might read a little disjointed but Im going back and forth here so sorry .....

Anyway, bear in mind when you go on about Americans that half the teenagers in ireland are trying to be yanks for some reason we could be accused of trying to highjack parts of their identity as much as they are ours...just a thought

WhiteWashMan · 21-01-2002 02:41PM

Originally posted by Trev M

I myself am 100% Irish, to the point of rediculousness sometimes...for example I've always owned a flag, its in my car....just in case there's an outburst of mass public patriotism or something I dunno.

roflmao!!!!

Originally posted by Trev M
Being Irish for me is a mixed bag of emotions and thinking about our country, particularly when away kinda makes me sad.....we're kinda sad in a way really....always seem to have the tough draw, the shortest straw and always the underdog that has to graft for everything, we like feeling sorry for ourselves it would appear.

it comes from being a repressed nation for so long. im sure you will ifnd a lot of countries are like that a lot of nationalities share similar viewpoints

Originally posted by Trev M

Then sometimes Im fierce proud of the place, our fantastic heritage, the fact that we are so different despite all the history of repression that hangs around our necks like the proverbial albatross....I think this has a huge bearing on our Identity perhaps it shouldn't be but at the same time we can't make it go away.

of course it shoud. its what make the irish irish.
if you changed the history of the country, wed be english, or german, or japanese or alien or something

Originally posted by Trev M

Today's Ireland has a lot to be frowned upon, I can't believe how racist a lot of people are, I feel utterly helpless when you see the way some people are treated in Dublin...particularly by the civil service (little dig there).
Our politicians are an absolute mess, the scams and payoffs, the tribunals, the greed its never ending.
We've also become greedy feckers too, I live in Dublin and have felt the place change dramatically over the last 10 years. Dublin is so Cosmo or something, full of yuppie wannabe ejits....

difference is that people here dont claim ti be half american. and its a big difference...
careful what you say about yuppies

Trev M · 21-01-2002 03:03PM

Hey WWM,
Cheers for your thoughts on my post, I didn't really think it out but for the most part I think I explained a little about how I see myself as an irish lad and am not sure if you were laughing at that, or the fact that you found my little jest about a public outburst funny>

Either way I would just like to clarify that Yuppies really irritate me ....

so do all those kids with their fake american accents.

I've already said to much...

Later - T :rolleyes:

WhiteWashMan · 21-01-2002 03:14PM

Originally posted by Trev M

Either way I would just like to clarify that Yuppies really irritate me ....
:

th yuppies......
you know, that could have been me, but i think it describes amp much better...

Trev M · 21-01-2002 03:24PM

Amp??

What makes you think Amp is a Yuppie? I'm relatively new to this part of the board so am not all that familiar with said person; have read some posts tough..didn't strike me as my perception of the classic Yuppie.....

D4 type, silver spoon, my kid matches my furniture, my ray bans cost me €9000, my briefs have been flown in from the tropics where they were made by a tribe of pigmies who spend years harvesting the material from silk worms deep within an active volcano blah de blah

this board is tuff ya really gotta watch what ya say!!

Apologies for going off topic!! Oops

WhiteWashMan · 21-01-2002 04:11PM

Originally posted by Trev M
Amp??

What makes you think Amp is a Yuppie?

because ive known him for 10 years?

castor troy is definately a yuppie, the flash git

Medogsbstfrnd · 21-01-2002 04:15PM

whitewashman
[Q]you will find that countries that have been oppressed have a populus that are very nationalistc and proud and very sarcastic.
we already know where we came from.
we know we are irish.
on the other hand. the americans have never been oppressed. they have never had fear. they dont know their boundries like other nations. they have always been an aggressive dominant country. and it deosnt tend to leave you a lot of time to think about your identity...[/Q]

The predominant theme in this thread is cultural envy. To generalize about a country the way you have about mine is a luxury afforded to the lazy. It's also a whole lot of horsesh*t. How would you know if we have never known fear? You've been reading too much poor Irish socialist theory. Here's what I'm hearing from you and this thread in general: being Irish means hating Americans, hating the English and being godd*mn proud of being Irish in a sort of pathetic, sarcastic way. Since this is a message board (in the broadest sense of the term) and not indicative of Irish intellectuals who actually read poetry, enjoy philosophical discussions and win Nobel prizes for doing so, I'll chalk this up to the discourse of the petty proletariat. There is simply nothing to learn from you. This is one American who is proud to be American, holds nothing against you for being proud to be Irish, but envys you not one whit. I--and most people I have known in this country--do not define themselves by a hyphenated identity. We're Americans. Some of us happened to come from Ireland and many are still coming from nearly every nation on earth to join us in citizenship. We're confident. You can piss that away as overbearing or aggessive, but it contrasts dramatically to the inferiority complex that riddles its way through this thread. Off to read to some Seamus Heanny poetry, lads. Here's to the Irish...

Trev M · 21-01-2002 04:38PM

What absolute pap...

but

I think Captain America here is right, in general I'd agree with the inferiority complex theory.....Its our way...its bred into us from an early age, I blame RTE and specifically Angus MacInally with that stupid mullet.

I take it that I couldn't interest you in a delux irish passport with fries and a milk shake then? You can go large for an extra few euro!!

All the best - Trev

atonal · 21-01-2002 06:09PM

well as an Irish-American I realize this issue causes alot of confusion internationally.

Thing is Americans tend to be very proud of their backgrounds... especially the Irish-Americans... Very often we live in communities that are predominantly Irish-American, attend Churches that are Irish-American etc.. so we form this identity... when Americans talk to eachother the "American" part is implied so left out... in a nation of immigrants everyone is something in addition to being American. It is just a way of having some sort of identity. Unfortunately when we converse with others we sometimes forget to specify the "American" before the "Irish"
It is mainly a matter of definition by context.... In the Bronx I am "Irish-Italian" in Dublin I am "American".... in Sunnyside Pubs I am "American" too because there are many actual Irish.

WhiteWashMan · 21-01-2002 07:57PM

Originally posted by Medogsbstfrnd

Here's to the Irish...

well then good luck. i have obviously made you think for a while and thats good isnt it.

Originally posted by Medogsbstfrnd

The predominant theme in this thread is cultural envy.

is it? some people have a lilt that way alright, but im not sure tat it is the theme of the thread. i think the theme of the thread is what people belive makes them an irish persona nd it has fairly much turned into a 'well, what makes a person into any national'

Originally posted by Medogsbstfrnd

To generalize about a country the way you have about mine is a luxury afforded to the lazy. It's also a whole lot of horsesh*t.

oh, im sorry, youre making a point are you?
what point are you making, and where are your examples to back it up?
you think its a load of horse-shít sure, but am i that worried about what you say? you talk about poetry? you obviously dont appreciate it if you cant even formulate a single paragraph without the addition of expletives to show your anger.
why dont you just simmer down there.
boy, you americans are sure explosive arent you?

Originally posted by Medogsbstfrnd

How would you know if we have never known fear? You've been reading too much poor Irish socialist theory.

have i?
sorry, im not sure. i must have missed the 800 years of oppressive regeme that americans ha.......
oih hold on, are you talking about when you lot went and butchered all your native americans? and now you all feel bad about it so you give them a few acres back?
now look at the history of ireland (oh, a country that has history and culture) and see if you can see a difference.

Originally posted by Medogsbstfrnd

Here's what I'm hearing from you and this thread in general: being Irish means hating Americans, hating the English and being godd*mn proud of being Irish in a sort of pathetic, sarcastic way.

you know, youre completely wrong. it seems you cant hear what is being said, but since its on your screen, try reading and understanding and give your ears a rest eh?
no oone hates the americans. americans really do not like hearing any critisisms at all though do they. they have the god given right to do and be anything and when someone else turns around and says, no, actually i dont think youre the best thing since sliced bread, you go and get offended. whats wrong with being proud of being irish.
and sarcarsm, you may learn once you get out of junior school, is a trait common among many societies who have been repressed.
look it up. its documented.

Originally posted by Medogsbstfrnd

. Since this is a message board (in the broadest sense of the term) and not indicative of Irish intellectuals who actually read poetry, enjoy philosophical discussions and win Nobel prizes for doing so, I'll chalk this up to the discourse of the petty prolitatiate

well, im glad youve added your self to the discourse, makes you petty too i guess, or are you better coz youre an american?
id say you chat about philosophy, talk about high brow subjects and spout poetry on a whim all the hours of your enlightened day dont you. personally, i think you appear to be someone who really doesnt have alot going on, are probably bored, and has no idea how to carry an argument. as for winning nobel prizes, well, why dont you tell us how to go about winning one of great one, and then maybe we will be worthy of you eh?

Originally posted by Medogsbstfrnd
. There is simply nothing to learn from you. This is one American who is proud to be American, holds nothing against you for being proud to be Irish, but envys you not one whit.

SORRY CALLER, THEN WHATS YOUR POINT?

Originally posted by Medogsbstfrnd

. I--and most people I have known in this country--do not define themselves by a hyphenated identity. We're Americans. Some of us happened to come from Ireland and many are still coming from nearly every nation on earth to join us in citizenship. We're confident.

now that is sweet.
but...

SORRY CALLER, THEN WHATS YOUR POINT?

Originally posted by Medogsbstfrnd

You can piss that away as overbearing or aggessive, but it contrasts dramatically to the inferiority complex that riddles its way through this thread. Off to read to some Seamus Heanny poetry, lads. Here's to the Irish...

thats so cool, but if you are going to give me a lecture and then pretend to be an intellectual by prancing of and reading, then trya nd get the name of the poet right will you.

i mean, you look like a complete tít now dont you?

now, why dont you go back and read the entire thread again, and see if you can think of some other way that you can take in the information provided. try and think of another way, another slant, another take on what people are saying.
all you have got is negativity. try and look at the posts again, and dont bother posting back if all you can tell me is more of your pointless drivel about how bloody wonderful you are.
its rubbish like that that píss of the rest of the world because americans have such a superiority complex.
either that or you are too stupid to tell the difference.
why dont you try and convince me its not the later.
im giving you a chance here.....

call it poety licence?

amp · 21-01-2002 08:00PM

YANKEE! GO HOME!

amp · 21-01-2002 08:09PM

Originally posted by WhiteWashMan

because ive known him for 10 years?

castor troy is definately a yuppie, the flash git

Ya, ya. It's like y'know, all part of my scene 'n stuff. And like the other day I was on the mobile while drinking a heiny and I, like thought to myself, like why not just cover over the liffey and like, make the whole of Dublin the southside?

But ya, in fairness, Wwman is not part of the y'know, Yuppie scene as like, a Mazda Mx5 just doesn't qualify, nor does, like, living in a posh area outside London. Ya? Comprendé?

Cool beans, lets, like, y'know do lunch sometime?

Sand · 21-01-2002 10:34PM

White Wash- Youre being very unfriendly. Sure youre Irish?:P Youre also very hung up on being oppressed. I wasnt aware you were 800 years old? Ive the remarkable achievement for an Irishman of not being oppressed. People who go on and on about it are as bad as those maudlin cash ins about how we had it so bad in poor ol catholic 50s ireland. Both make my skin crawl.

Medog: Youre right in that these boards tend not to accurately reflect Irish opinion overall. Instead they reflect the opinion of a sample of mostly left wingers. As for being Irish meaning you hate English, no not true. Its just the majority of them *are* ****:)

As for Irish identity, You can assign certain characteristics to Irish people- both positive and negative, but the stereotype of the Irish all being jokers is as invalid as the stereotype of all Irish looking to go ten rounds with Mike Tyson. What makes you Irish is the same thing as any other nationality- a shared cultural identity - cheering for the same team, sharing the same (invalid) stereotypes about your own nationality and others (See english are mostly ****:) ), being able to strike up a conversation with a complete stranger as to whether Paul McGrath or Roy Keane was the best Irish player (Try doing that with a German, itll be a pretty short conversation:) ).

Its hard to define but we all recognise it. The Irish are different from many cultures in that because of "circumstances" at home, people left to make a better life abroad - not just in America. The descendants of these people arent Irish as we would define it, and as medog said claims of being Irish are secondary to their primary nationality. They have a different shared cultural identity to ours. However there are "links" between our identity and theirs. That can be recognised without being smart about it.

Boston · 21-01-2002 10:34PM

amp very good, but you forgot to add in the royth at the end of every sentance.

I cant be arsed reading this tread, so i just read the important stuff. Nice smack down wwm

Why am I Irish?

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