Car Insurance

Bomberman · 10-01-2002 06:51PM #1

It a Fu€kin rip off.
If ur between the age of 17 and 21 it a robbery, They are look for £6500 off me 4 a 1.0l micra. Any 1 know any cheap insurance companys or any scams?

b20uvkft6m5xwg · 10-01-2002 07:02PM

Its not a rip-off when you do a cost/risk analysis of young drivers in Ireland. If anything, the Insurance Co's are selling a loss making product.

I'm in no way defending Insur. Co's, but I understand the reasoning for the prices they charge to young drivers.

And no, there are no cheap insurance Companies- All the rates are calculated using largely the same actuarial principles and any differences are minor.

richindub2 · 10-01-2002 07:07PM

Wouldnt so called 'scams' be somewhat illegal? 0o

thereal_unsane · 10-01-2002 07:20PM

Originally posted by 80project
Its not a rip-off when you do a cost/risk analysis of young drivers in Ireland. If anything, the Insurance Co's are selling a loss making product.

I'm in no way defending Insur. Co's, but I understand the reasoning for the prices they charge to young drivers.

And no, there are no cheap insurance Companies- All the rates are calculated using largely the same actuarial principles and any differences are minor.

the reason insurance companys give for their rates, was, the large payouts awarded by jurys in court. this has now been done away with. but there there's been no drop in premiums.

I am currently paying £400 on a 1988 Opel Corsa(1ltr engine), I am a named driver on my mothers policy, the poilicy is about 2/3 grand, probably more. I know of people in england paying about £400 for the premium itself, with named drivers costing about 25 bills. How then, when England has a greater population and therefore larger revenue stream(and probably greater risk/cost factor), can there be such a stark difference between the two countries. It's the same all over Europe.

We are being blatently ripped off by insurance companies. Unless you are a 27year old female, you are probably not going to even get a quote from any of the companys around here.

Spunog UIE · 10-01-2002 07:22PM

if ya live on a farm ya can get 'farm' insurance for practically nothing, so if you could arrage to live there or at least change of address then maybe ya could get that.

I think there is a eurpean company that insures irish folk too but there may be an age limit. Anyway they worth findin out who they is, an old manager was insured with them and it was a **** load cheaper than any of irish firms.

If you get insurance on a van car. ie no back seat and no back side windows, your insurance is a lot lower on a.c of the no. of people you can carry, only 1. I know a guy that got a first time quote of 2300 on a 1.2 van/car thing and that dropped loads after he got full liensed car.

Moped Still the cheapest to insure and motorbikes cheaper than cars, esp. cruiser types.

b20uvkft6m5xwg · 10-01-2002 07:44PM

Originally posted by thereal_unsane
the reason insurance companys give for their rates, was, the large payouts awarded by jurys in court. this has now been done away with.

Ehmmm.....Since when??

Maybe you should familiarise yourself with the Insurance Act 1989, specifically the fact that damages for personal injury are unlimited and that in the last few years there have been increases in the caps Insur. Co's can put on damages to property, now set at a minimum £90,000.

While the level of damages in certain areas of law have shrunk- ie. libel law, this is not a Civil Matter and thus the courts are statute bound to comply with the Insurance Act.

Winning Hand · 10-01-2002 08:25PM

Its not a rip-off when you do a cost/risk analysis of young drivers in Ireland. If anything, the Insurance Co's are selling a loss making product.

[edit] url doesnt work so ill just cut and paste it, its from the irish times archive search, use the words insurance + companies + profit. Its a bit old but I doubt much has changed in 10 months[/edit]

Young drivers profiting insurance industry
By John McManus
Insurance companies make bigger profits on drivers under 25 years than almost any other category, according to a Government-backed investigation into insurance costs.

The classification of drivers under 25 as a non-profitable risk "is now open to question", according to a report of the Motor Insurance Advisory Board (MIAB), which looked at the books of the largest insurance companies.

The report, released under the Freedom of Information Act, reveals that insurers made an average profit of £211 per head on drivers aged 22-24 between 1993 and 1997, compared to £60 for drivers aged 46-55.

The report also found that "women appear to contribute more than their fair share in certain instances". Profits made by insurance companies on women drivers over 51 were consistently higher than those on men. The discrepancy in the profits on young women drivers was even greater.

"Female policy holders aged 19 to 20 delivered a profit of £730 each compared to £186 for males," said the report. The board found that insurers lose money only on drivers aged 17 and 18, a group which accounts for just 0.3 per cent of all risks.

The report's findings challenge the industry assertion that companies lose money when they insure young drivers. The findings also call into question the refusal by some insurance companies even to give quotations to younger drivers and to charge higher premiums to drivers under 30.

The document, called "An Executive Summary of Progress Reports", was produced for the MIAB last summer. The report also says insurance companies made profits of 30 per cent on policies sold to drivers aged between 66 and 70.

The Department of Enterprise, Trade and Employment, which is represented on the board, described the report as preliminary, as some companies had not given the board access to their books.

A final report is due at the end of the year and should cover 90 per cent of the industry, according to the Department.

The Irish Insurance Federation was represented on the board and checked the calculations. It found no errors. It threatened to withdraw its cooperation after the report was completed last summer but withdrew the threat when faced with the prospect of a "more rigorous forum for investigation in this area of public concern".

The final paragraph is the most sinister in my opinion

Incidentially there is a guy up in dublin somewhere running as an independant as he got fecked by the insurance companies so much, if I lived there he would have my vote in a second

toloola · 10-01-2002 08:31PM

He Two for u and it not against the law.

Scam1

Step 1: Buy a cheap van (The one`s that look like a car without the back seats)
Step 2: Get it NCT Tested.
Step 3: Ring Insureance group and tell them you want to insure the van as a private ower.
Step 4: Hang up fone with a grin on ur face when u here the quate.
Then will not price u throught the roof but i`m not saying it still cheap. For a 1.9 Desial van it cost my mate £700 for the year. Not bad.

Scam2

Do an advance driving course and you r allowed 20% to 30% off ur insurance. I did this and i got £250 off my insurance.
It was the insurance group which told me of this test.

WhiteWashMan · 10-01-2002 08:42PM

Originally posted by 80project
Its not a rip-off when you do a cost/risk analysis of young drivers in Ireland. If anything, the Insurance Co's are selling a loss making product.

I'm in no way defending Insur. Co's, but I understand the reasoning for the prices they charge to young drivers.

And no, there are no cheap insurance Companies- All the rates are calculated using largely the same actuarial principles and any differences are minor.

actually amte youre completely wrong.

there is no way in hell they are making a loss. at the moment they are pulling out all the stops to grab as much money before ireland joins the rest of eurpoe in cheap insurance.

yes there are cheaper companies, but if youre getting quoted at a huge price then id say you are male, under 25, probabl;y on a provisional, living in dublin. and owner of the car

companies dont care what car you have. the premiums are indeed because of huge court settlements involving personal claims.

i live in england. im about to buy an mx-5 1.8i 2 seater convertable(a hairdressers car!) and my insureance is likely to be about 800 quid. which is nice.
i currently have a 1l micra and my insurance is 11 quid irish.
spot the difference.m personal clim payout is alot lower inengland. there is a huge amount of people here to ensure hence a marked decrease in price.

the sooner you can go to anywhere in eurpoe and get a quote, then go for it.
the rac www.rac.co.uk already quote insurance prices for ireland but i dont know what they are like.

WhiteWashMan · 10-01-2002 08:43PM

Originally posted by Bomberman
It a Fu€kin rip off.
If ur between the age of 17 and 21 it a robbery, They are look for £6500 off me 4 a 1.0l micra. Any 1 know any cheap insurance companys or any scams?

by the way, loose the big .sig picture will you.

b20uvkft6m5xwg · 10-01-2002 10:01PM

Originally posted by Winning Hand
The report, released under the Freedom of Information Act, reveals that insurers made an average profit of £211 per head on drivers aged 22-24 between 1993 and 1997, compared to £60 for drivers aged 46-55.
[/B]

Note: 1993-1997- a period of 4-8 years ago.
I just finished Inusrance Regulation Law before Christmas and have alot of data to hand on profits of Insurance Companies. For example in the last 2 years, AXA have payed out c.127% in claims of premiums collected on young drivers. The figures in the last few years are wildly different for all Insur. Co's because of the dramatic increase in the numbers of young drivers and cars on the road. Hence profit margins from 4-8 years ago are now redundant.

BTW WWMan
To the best of my knowledge all the major Insurance Companies in the last 2-3 years who write insurance for under 25's drivers have made a loss- mainly due to the reasoning above. Comparisons to the UK are pointless because of the "Premium Pool" factor. We can only make comparisons when the market is deregulated further throughout the EU, when hopefully we all will pay less:)

WhiteWashMan · 10-01-2002 11:27PM

Originally posted by 80project

BTW WWMan
To the best of my knowledge all the major Insurance Companies in the last 2-3 years who write insurance for under 25's drivers have made a loss- mainly due to the reasoning above. Comparisons to the UK are pointless because of the "Premium Pool" factor. We can only make comparisons when the market is deregulated further throughout the EU, when hopefully we all will pay less:)

on average insurance make 900 pounds profit PER female driver under 27. they dont make much money on male drivers however of the same age because they always crash.
comparisons cant be made with any other EU country because no other EU country gets rip, er i mean has such high premiums.

Lucifer · 11-01-2002 12:15AM

The best way to make any sort of reform in ire at the mo is to make ur boring fúçking TD that is gonna call 2 ur house everyday over the next few months 4 your vote(for anyone over 18)

Tell them that the only way that ur gonna vote 4 them is if they do something bout the fúçking ridiculous insurance prices that anyone between the ages of 17-27 are paying!! And more to the point ANYONE!!

I heard of a taxi driver paying £4000 for insurance

yeah a taxi driver is different n all but for fúçk sake thats fúçking stupid

:mad: :mad: :mad:

b20uvkft6m5xwg · 11-01-2002 12:30AM

[Please Note I'm not defending the price of insurance]

But what do you want Companies to do??
Sell it cheap and make a big loss??
Then become insolvent and be unable to meet their liabilities??

We have a small premium pool, thus simple mathematics equates there must be higher premiums in comparison to other jursidictions. Its not something I like either, but its a fact! Frankly ranting to your TD will not do much, unless they want to parachute in another 10 million inhabitants to contribute the "pool"?

Lenny · 11-01-2002 12:32AM

if ya live on a farm ya can get 'farm' insurance for practically nothing, so if you could arrage to live there or at least change of address then maybe ya could get that.

That doesn't work anymore, if you work or travel to Dublin, the Insurance price goes up as if you live in Dublin,

I heard of a taxi driver paying £4000 for insurance

Thats not *that* much if you think about it for a taxi driver, because if he crashes, the people in the car will defenly claim off him.

Tell them that the only way that ur gonna vote 4 them is if they do something bout the fúçking ridiculous insurance prices that anyone between the ages of 17-27 are paying!!

He can't do anything about the price's of the insurance, so he would probberly leave your door, the prices of the insurance is so high becase the insurance companys aren't a charaty, they're out there to make a profit, and because so many young people are crashing and claiming, they have to rise the price's every year to make a profit, its when two words called "intrest rates" go "high"

Lenny · 11-01-2002 12:34AM

Shouldn't this also be in the humanities?

WhiteWashMan · 11-01-2002 09:28AM

Originally posted by 80project
[Please Note I'm not defending the price of insurance]

But what do you want Companies to do??
Sell it cheap and make a big loss??
Then become insolvent and be unable to meet their liabilities??

We have a small premium pool, thus simple mathematics equates there must be higher premiums in comparison to other jursidictions. Its not something I like either, but its a fact! Frankly ranting to your TD will not do much, unless they want to parachute in another 10 million inhabitants to contribute the "pool"?

NO NO NO!

i understand what your saying 80p, but the fact of the matter is that insurance companies are NOT making a loss.
what they are doing is making a huge FORTUNE.
and yes, they can afford to bring down the price of insurance, they just wont because they are still craeming it all in before european markets forces prices down through competition.

when i was in ireland, saw people paying 4000 for car insurance.
i saw people paying 4500 for car insurance. ive seen people pay 5 grand for car insurance (muppets, get a private taxi, its cheaper) ive seen the late late show go on a bout it and ive heard radio programs and ive seen television programs, ive heard it debated in the dail and ive heard all the politicians rant about the opressive rates of premiums.

and the rates have gone up!
thats just madness.

by the way, the insurance i used was mike murphy insurance off dame street. just beside bankers pub. gave me a quote of 500 quid cheaper than anyone else.
just in case any one is looking.

seamus · 11-01-2002 04:13PM

There's some company in Dublin city at the mo(I forget the name - O Reilly-Cullen or something similar), specialising in young drivers, but with a catch - They take your car, and stick a tiny GPS module in it (for free of course). So your car is monitored 24/7/365. They have the speed limits of all roads in the country, so they know how fast you are going and where. Sounds bad? Well not totally.
The one I was talking to was saying that they are really more concerned with motorways and national roads, ie high-speed places, and it's quite forgiving. For example, they have you logged at 65/70mph on a national road for 10secs -> you were overtaking, no biggie. She said they wouldn't really care if you were doing 40 in the city centre for 2 reasons - it's tough to drive in the city centre for more than 20secs without having to stop for lights, and most fatal(ie high payout) accidents don't occur in the cities.
So stay below 60 on national roads and below 70 on the m-ways, and you're laughing. They evaluate your stats every so often(week/month - I'm not sure) and your premium is adjusted according to it, and you can attain a max decrease of 40%. That's pretty damn good for us poor ****s paying 3/4/5 grand for third party/fire/theft alone

I'm not doing it, 'cos I'm buying a bike

:D:D Cheapo!!!

b20uvkft6m5xwg · 11-01-2002 04:30PM

I heard about that on Pat Kenny actually. sound very big brotherish if you ask me but if you want cheaper insurance and your willing to do that....Its up to you

by WhiteWashMan
NO NO NO!

i understand what your saying 80p, but the fact of the matter is that insurance companies are NOT making a loss.
what they are doing is making a huge FORTUNE.
and yes, they can afford to bring down the price of insurance, they just wont because they are still craeming it all in before european markets forces prices down through competition.

ok we will agree to disagree:)
But seriously, call up some of the Insurance companies and get their audited Accounts- With the Sept. 11th impact as well they are not making exorbitant profits, if any:)
And of course theres always room for lower prices from the consumers angle!

STaN · 11-01-2002 04:51PM

I have my insurance with Church & General. It costs me £425 a year to be a named driver. I drive a 1.4MPI '00 VW POLO, in Dublin West.

I've always wondered... If you got a car, could you get a middle aged driver with a relatively low premium and get them to take out the main policy on the car, and then add youself as a named driver?? This would make the whole thing work out cheaper than getting an 18/19 year old holding the main policy, wouldnt it?

seamus · 11-01-2002 04:56PM

Originally posted by Dave|STaN
I have my insurance with Church & General. It costs me £425 a year to be a named driver. I drive a 1.4MPI '00 VW POLO, in Dublin West.

I've always wondered... If you got a car, could you get a middle aged driver with a relatively low premium and get them to take out the main policy on the car, and then add youself as a named driver?? This would make the whole thing work out cheaper than getting an 18/19 year old holding the main policy, wouldnt it?

This has been clamped down on. Insurance companies share info among themselves, such that people can only own one car, unless you have more than one,but with no named drivers on any of them.

WhiteWashMan · 11-01-2002 04:58PM

Originally posted by Dave|STaN
I have my insurance with Church & General. It costs me £425 a year to be a named driver. I drive a 1.4MPI '00 VW POLO, in Dublin West.

I've always wondered... If you got a car, could you get a middle aged driver with a relatively low premium and get them to take out the main policy on the car, and then add youself as a named driver?? This would make the whole thing work out cheaper than getting an 18/19 year old holding the main policy, wouldnt it?

unfortunately its also illegal.
a named driver is not suppose to have 24/7 access to the car, sort of 2/3 day aweek max.
of course, how would they know if you claimed, but if you were cuaght then your insurance would be null and void.
funnily enough, as im looking for incurance on my mx-5 at the moment, i read that this morning.
i was a named driver on my mothers car for about 2 years and i had the car all the time. like when i moved to meath

but, aparently its technically illegal and invalidates your cover.

ok we will agree to disagree

no!!!!!!!
i want an arguement.
by the way, how can you bring sept/11 into car insurance in ireland?

b20uvkft6m5xwg · 11-01-2002 08:11PM

no!!!!!!!
i want an arguement.

Tough:D

by the way, how can you bring sept/11 into car insurance in ireland?

Quite easily. While there is no doubt that other more scruplous Companies **cough**€ircom**cough** have sought to explain general incompetence and profitering on the tragedy, The Insurance Companies are one of the most affected business sector post 9/11. Their bill will be multi-hundreds of Billions of $$ when eventually calculated.
In essence most of the major insurance companies in Ireland all have foreign investors and have funds being managed all across the world especially the US, so without going into the nitty gritty of it...Less money from investors and less returns on capital investment mean less profit for insurance companies.

Can ye pick an argument out that then

Victor · 11-01-2002 08:17PM

Originally posted by WhiteWashMan
by the way, how can you bring sept/11 into car insurance in ireland? is someone going to go on a car blowing up spree in dublin?@

The insurance companies, the re-insurance companies and the under-writers all need to make their money back and are applying increases across the board.

WhiteWashMan · 12-01-2002 02:47AM

are you telling me that in a area that is already screwing you (not me) that the massive profits they are making are paying for america?
why are they not being applied through out the world?
ive not heard of premiums going up in any country?
poor old ireland stuck with the burden of being american again?

im sorry, i dont belive it.
the irish motorist is not paying for sept/11.
thats absolute bull shít, plain and simple....

so what about all the companies that are only based in ireland and putting theoir premiums up?

is that to do with the new BMW coming out, or the problems in the north?
maybe its to do with burnley being in division 1?
get serious....

thereal_unsane · 12-01-2002 03:04AM

Originally posted by WhiteWashMan
are you telling me that in a area that is already screwing you (not me) that the massive profits they are making are paying for america?
why are they not being applied through out the world?
ive not heard of premiums going up in any country?
poor old ireland stuck with the burden of being american again?

then you must be deaf or something. insurance companies across the globe are increasing their premiums. example Axa pulled out of insuring this years world cup a couple of weeks after 9/11, then were eventually wooed back with an increase of their premium.

so what about all the companies that are only based in ireland and putting theoir premiums up?

what companies based only in ireland? Quinn Direct, they are useless anyway. PMPA, or should I say AXA? Hibernian, which I believe is currently being bought out by another international insurance company. Basicially most companys operating in ireland are either owned by another multinational, or are in the process of being bought. I think you'll find very few exclusively Irish only companies.

Bomberman · 12-01-2002 03:05AM

Originally posted by WhiteWashMan

by the way, loose the big .sig picture will you.

Doin it now

Originally posted by OJ
Shouldn't this also be in the humanities?

If this was in humanities i would not get as many replys...

80cent do u drive? if so whats the price of ur insurance?

WhiteWashMan · 13-01-2002 01:05AM

Originally posted by thereal_unsane

then you must be deaf or something.

i may be deaf, but i still know shíte when i read it.

Monty - the one and only · 13-01-2002 09:46AM

Bomber man reduce the size of that sig image its way too big

mike65 · 13-01-2002 05:10PM

Originally posted by thereal_unsane

then you must be deaf or something.

Originally posted by WhiteWashMan

i may be deaf, but i still know shíte when i read it.

Its not ****e but that doesnt mean insurance companies here are'nt charging over the odds.
I think the thing that would most help is er...
are u ready for this?...better driving standards, yep its true!

Mike.

Victor · 13-01-2002 06:14PM

Originally posted by thereal_unsane
what companies based only in ireland? Quinn Direct, they are useless anyway. PMPA, or should I say AXA? Hibernian, which I believe is currently being bought out by another international insurance company. Basicially most companys operating in ireland are either owned by another multinational, or are in the process of being bought. I think you'll find very few exclusively Irish only companies.

There is also the matter of re-insurance where companies hedge their risks across several markets and several countries - that is what the new increases are for.

Car Insurance

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