should foreign gardai speak Irish?

MrPinK · 26-08-2005 02:51AM

djmarkus wrote:

And some Non-National Dublin bus drivers have exceptionally bad English, it’s very off putting for to be standing there trying to make out what he/she's trying to say, now the problem would be personified in a law enforcement role.

Making non-nationals learn Irish isn't going to help that at all. Do you think they'd be any better at Irish than English?

djmarkus · 26-08-2005 02:55AM

That wasn't my argument, my argument was that nobody should be employed into a national public service role without having a good grasp of the language that is most spoken for that nation, for us english.

My Argument for keeping irish is stated

And i don’t like Irish in particular but i like to see Ireland’s culture stay intact, and the Irish language is a big part of it so i think it should stay compulsory.

DonkeyStyle \o/ · 26-08-2005 02:58AM

Mr.Nice Guy wrote:

When I had a conversation in Irish for my Oral exam, the Examiner must have really been a magic leprechaun!

Could he not speak English?
Isn't it great though, that the best example you have of speaking Irish to someone is in a school exam. :rolleyes:
Would you raise a kid to speak only Irish and not even enough English to be able to tell someone that they're lost? ... That'd be gross neglect IMO.

what with us being Romans and all.

Wow, we're Romans now? Excellent stuff... makes you wonder why we speak Irish at all.
If you'd used that line on a nun back in the day, you'd get fifty lashes.
Do your research before you get a thick ear and a note to your parents.

jill_valentine · 26-08-2005 04:29AM

Pff. Irish is the national language, it says so here, so there! Please. I can't imagine there's a single person on earth who can communicate only in Irish. Like it or not, English is the practical language and universal vernacular of Ireland. It is of absolutely no practical use to the Gardai, none whatsoever. Placing a greater value on the candidates ability to speak a functionally redundant language than on their merit as a keeper of the peace is not the best way to produce the best police force we can. It's mule headed stubborness, and it's a policy that severely restricts the forces credibility among minorities. Would you trust a police force that doesn't seem to have a single member of your ethnic group?

Fighting for the Irish requirement in the 21st century - just because you can - is almost childish. If the people don't speak it, why should their police force?

jezza · 26-08-2005 06:57AM

You can actually demand your interview/arrest in irish as its your national language. I think Irish language should be compulsary. What good be having german when/if you try and arrest some one who starts speaking gaeilge, I mean you cant really tell them to shut up and speak english.
Also, my best friends dad is a solicitor and her sisters boyf is a prof in UCG, who had lots of parking fines or speeding fines, i cant remember which, but Donal got him out of it because the fine wasnt written in the national language, as I said he got away with it, and the last few fines he got/anyone got in that area was actually in Irish.
So yes I think that they should keep the Irish language, however "useless" it might seem.

DonkeyStyle \o/ · 26-08-2005 07:06AM

jezza wrote:

What good be having german when/if you try and arrest some one who starts speaking gaeilge, I mean you cant really tell them to shut up and speak english.

And what good is Irish if you arrest someone who can only speak French?
What do you do? You get an interpreter.
Can we not detain people because they don't understand the officers language? I think I see a huge legal loophole here.

Also, my best friends dad is a solicitor and her sisters boyf is a prof in UCG, who had lots of parking fines or speeding fines, i cant remember which, but Donal got him out of it because the fine wasnt written in the national language, as I said he got away with it, and the last few fines he got/anyone got in that area was actually in Irish.
So yes I think that they should keep the Irish language, however "useless" it might seem.

Yeah, good reasoning there... Irish is usefull because it lets speeding yuppies off on technicalities, way to make your point.

Hobbes · 26-08-2005 08:15AM

DaveMcG wrote:

^
Irish is the national language.

It is also in the minority vs other languages. Unless they make a push to force it on people I don't see why it should be enforced on a gardai. I wonder how many Gardai nowdays speak Irish and were born in Ireland.

Malorkus · 26-08-2005 08:23AM

Sparky_S wrote:

im not racist but i dont like this idea of an indian guard pulling me over to hand me the law while me trying to understand a word of english from his mouth because of his indian accent.
unless the ratios are ok like 1:20
remember im not racist its just my opinion.
oh and they better learn irish, as an irish citizen i can request a gaurd to talk to me, as gaeilge.
so they better learn it.

I don't think I like the idea of being pulled over by an Indian garda - period. It'd just be wierd getting talked down to by some paki in my own country - I can just picture the hairy guy with an Apu accent in a Garda uniform - it just looks wrong. Or even worse - imagine getting a bollocking from a French guy!

CJhaughey · 26-08-2005 08:33AM

Malorkus wrote:

I don't think I like the idea of being pulled over by an Indian garda - period. It'd just be wierd getting talked down to by some paki in my own country - I can just picture the hairy guy with an Apu accent in a Garda uniform - it just looks wrong. Or even worse - imagine getting a bollocking from a French guy!

Why would it be weird? because you feel that you are superior to a foreign born garda?Because of his skin colour? please elaborate or you may be called a racist.

RainyDay · 26-08-2005 08:38AM

Scraggs wrote:

They should be fluent in english and others should be able to comprehend what they are saying!

How would this requirement impact the many Gardai with 2-foot-thick Kerry accents?

horseflesh · 26-08-2005 08:54AM

jill_valentine wrote:

Pff. Irish is the national language, it says so here, so there! Please. I can't imagine there's a single person on earth who can communicate only in Irish. Like it or not, English is the practical language and universal vernacular of Ireland. It is of absolutely no practical use to the Gardai, none whatsoever. Placing a greater value on the candidates ability to speak a functionally redundant language than on their merit as a keeper of the peace is not the best way to produce the best police force we can. It's mule headed stubborness, and it's a policy that severely restricts the forces credibility among minorities. Would you trust a police force that doesn't seem to have a single member of your ethnic group?

Fighting for the Irish requirement in the 21st century - just because you can - is almost childish. If the people don't speak it, why should their police force?

Well said, you practically took the words out of my mouth.

So, technically Irish might be the “national” language but in reality it is FAR from being our first language. Besides English, at least Chinese (Mandarin and/or Cantonese) and Polish would be the first language for more people than Irish is. I’m not suggesting that Chinese or Polish should be introduced as a language for the Gardai, but I do strongly think that Irish should be dropped as a compulsory requirement.
I mean seriously, how many Irish people genuinely wouldn’t be able to converse with a Garda in English?? I would say practically none, in fact I would be surprised if there were any. Anyone “demanding” to be addressed in Irish is being spiteful and very petty. People asserting these sort of “rights” piss me off and is one of the things wrong with this Banana Republic of ours. Why do so many people think that society owes them something; the “what’s in it for me?” brigade. Typical Irish small-mindedness.

Forget the romantic ideals of the Irish language, it’s all but dead and buried, and it’s the fault of successive governments for failing to promote it and teach it to children properly.

So to answer the original question; no, foreign Gardai should not be required to be able to speak Irish, but neither should Irish Gardai.

Edit:I forget to say this. To the person condoning the use of a loophole concerning the Irish language to get out of speeding fines; shame on you and your parasite solicitor friend.

Dyr · 26-08-2005 08:57AM

I find the idea that the gardai should be accomodating immigrants ridiculous. There are two languages in this country, irish and english. The State should be under no obligation to provide any service for non-nationals who cant be arsed to learn one of them. Of course we now have whole communities in this country that the gardai have no interface with but hey, isnt that the beauty of multiculturalism?? lucky us.

Take a look at countries where non nationals can become cops, its usually because its a badly paid career with little benefits, something that cant be said of the gardai. We have no shortage of irish applicants to templemore so why should we have postive discrimination for non nationals?

Malorkus · 26-08-2005 08:58AM

CJhaughey wrote:

Why would it be weird? because you feel that you are superior to a foreign born garda?Because of his skin colour? please elaborate or you may be called a racist.

1) Because it has never happened before and I can't picture it.
2) Yes. I am superior to most peope - regardless of where they were born.
3) No - because he's not Irish, and Gardai enforcing Irish laws unto Irish citizens should be Irish born IMO (note, I said "IMO" before any spazmos misquote me). I never said anything about skin colour. Wanna share what's on your mind?

horseflesh · 26-08-2005 09:03AM

Malorkus wrote:

I never said anything about skin colour. Wanna share what's on your mind?

What's on yours???
You're the one talking about "some Paki". But I bet you're not a racist right??

seamus · 26-08-2005 09:08AM

Malorkus wrote:

I don't think I like the idea of being pulled over by an Indian garda - period. It'd just be wierd getting talked down to by some paki in my own country - I can just picture the hairy guy with an Apu accent in a Garda uniform - it just looks wrong. Or even worse - imagine getting a bollocking from a French guy!

Why, because this is "your country"? Sweet Jesus people, if they're suitably qualified what ****ing difference does their skin color or accent make? Go down to Kerry and get pulled over by a Garda with an accent far worse than Nigerian or Indian, and big red arms on him, and tell me how it's any different. :rolleyes:

Morons. No matter what you say, promoting "This job is only for Irish people" elitism is racism in another guise.

Non-national Gardai will go through exactly the same training, and will have to fulfill exactly the same criteria as Irish Gardai.

My only worry is that a Pakistani, or particularly a Nigerian or Chinese Garda simply won't get any respect, particularly in the rougher areas of the country where Irish Gardai barley get any respect.

It's something that's sorely needed. A lot of the time, the Gardai will choose a female Garda to go in and talk to an hysterical woman, to give them some common ground. Similarly, it will do wonders for the Gardai if they can send in a Nigerian or Chinese Garda to deal with Nigerian or Chinese people.

Dave · 26-08-2005 09:17AM

I can't believe the closed mindedness of some people here. Just because you say "I'm not a racist by the way" doesn't actually mean you're not one.

Gazza22 · 26-08-2005 09:25AM

I agree with the above, you can't just make a racist remark and then try and accept no liabilty for that remark...

Once somebody has fulfilled the Garda requirements, they have a right to become a garda regardless of their nationality. As for the Irish language in the Garda programme, scrap it, it's only used in the Gaeltacht and is pretty much useless outside those boundaries.

is_that_so · 26-08-2005 09:35AM

jezza wrote:

You can actually demand your interview/arrest in irish as its your national language. I think Irish language should be compulsary.

AFAIK You can also demand to have a case heard in Irish in court. That could be problematic. Personally I have no progblem with the original question. I'm reminded of the Jason Sherlock minority ad.

BuffyBot · 26-08-2005 09:35AM

Now that they are trying to bring in foreign Gardai, should those Gardai have to speak Irish? I believe they should have to speak Irish if they want to join the Gardai or p*** off home!

Malorkus wrote:

1) Because it has never happened before and I can't picture it.
2) Yes. I am superior to most peope - regardless of where they were born.
3) No - because he's not Irish, and Gardai enforcing Irish laws unto Irish citizens should be Irish born IMO (note, I said "IMO" before any spazmos misquote me). I never said anything about skin colour. Wanna share what's on your mind?

The village of Stormfront is missing it's idiots, I see.

DublinWriter · 26-08-2005 09:35AM

The whole 'Irish language' debate is really the Pragmatists vs the Idealists.

In an ideal world, we would all be fluent in Irish because of the 14+ years we spent in school learning the language, so therefore all Guards should be able to speak Irish.

However, as Irish is thought so badly in our educational system, only 5% of the population are fluent Irish speakers, so realistically, no, Guards shouldn't have to speak Irish.

I have a couple of friends in the Guards and most can't speak Irish fluently. The Irish language fluency test is a short oral test and pretty easy to get a 40% pass in.

The real question here should be "Why do we spend 14 years in school learning Irish and come out of it barely able to ask permission to go to the toilet?". That's the question the Idealists should be really addressing.

Meanwhile in the real world, we are seeing more and more crime related to ethnic minories in this country and we need a police force more reflective of our current ethnic mix in order to tackle this. Witness the current rise in Chinese gang violence around Dublin and the high levels of prostitution amoung the Romanian community.

Considering that we as Irish people couldn't tell our own language from a hole in the ground, it's unfair of us to expect people from other communities who choose to live and work here to be fluent in Irish.

It's a small-minded arguement for small-minded, insular people.

PlayaFlow · 26-08-2005 09:36AM

banned for personal abuse

WhiteWashMan · 26-08-2005 09:36AM

Bond-007 wrote:

Nope, they should be made learn Irish. Irish is the offical langauge, I can demand that the organs of the state, gardai included address me in Irish.

English ios also the official language, and the language which 99.999% of the population can speak.

what percentage of the population use irish in a full time capacity, let alone know how to speak and understand it?

hell, i did honours irish for the leaving, and i did very well, but i doubt i could have a conversation in irish, let alone understand one.

DublinWriter · 26-08-2005 09:40AM

Malorkus wrote:

1) Because it has never happened before and I can't picture it.

That's a perfectly good reason to let things stay as they are then, isin't it?

Malorkus wrote:

2) Yes. I am superior to most peope - regardless of where they were born.

Why? Were you born of the blood Royal? Should we all hail you as King Malorkus the First, or just dismiss you as a tit?

Malorkus wrote:

3) No - because he's not Irish, and Gardai enforcing Irish laws unto Irish citizens should be Irish born IMO (note, I said "IMO" before any spazmos misquote me).

Just like all the Irish cops working in NYC then?, not to mention the hundreds of Irish working in UK police forces.

Dyr · 26-08-2005 09:44AM

So because we have more chinese stabbing each other, we need chinese gardai to deal with the problem? Brilliant. How about recruiting some junkies in the force while you're at it? Or a couple of out of work provos?? How come no-ones demanding traahveller guards?? :rolleyes:

Before we go importing police from other countries (and we're supposed to believe the background check on these guys will be as stringent as for local gardai?? like F*** it will ),should'nt we ask why the hell we've imported a load of social problems from other countries?? Or even better why we dont expect non-nationals to integrate into existing social structures. This is Ireland, if chinese people wanna deal with chinese cops theres a really big country out east that caters for that...

cotillion · 26-08-2005 09:47AM

astec123 wrote:

That is a very poor view, and I bet you are one of the people that say that the gardai do nothing

Sorry, couldn't stop laughing for ages, this is hilarious you sound like you think they do something!!!

IceHawk · 26-08-2005 09:49AM

I think what most people here are arguing is that as Irish people, it's our right to speak Irish as our only language and that the gardai should have to respect that, while the realists are saying that in actual fact, nobody outside the gaeltachts is more fluent in Irish than in English, so the gardai have no reason to learn it.

I think that gardai in primarily Irish speaking areas should have fluent Irish, while more gardai in the cities should have different languages. Someone suggested English and one other language for any guard. That would probably work, although I could see the force being flooded with foreign applicants and Irish as a language being squeezed out altogether.

CJhaughey · 26-08-2005 09:54AM

Bambi wrote:

Before we go importing police from other countries

We are not importing police we are talking about taking in recruits in this country to be trained as Gardai.

,

Bambi wrote:

should'nt we ask why the hell we've imported a load of social problems from other countries??

Yes yes quite true our own social problems are of a completely different variety! why some of them even speak Irish! :rolleyes:

Bambi wrote:

Or even better why we dont expect non-nationals to integrate into existing social structures.

like fighting with slashhooks and pickaxe handles!

seamus · 26-08-2005 10:01AM

I'm closing this thread because it has contravened the "no abuse" charter so many times, yet people are just calling a racist prick a racist prick, so I won't ban them.

If someone decides to start the thread again, they'll be banned.

should foreign gardai speak Irish?

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