Psycho bikers - Giving bad rep?

Kermitt · 17-06-2005 09:19AM #1

This is an offshoot from the "speed really does kill" thread

Was driving down the N7 on tuesday towards Naas. I was doing about 110kph near rathcoole in the overtaking lane (yes.. a smidgeon over the speed limit.. not my point.) Without warning a figure shot between me and the artic i was passing.. some lunatic on a 600 or something and he was lampin it.. Way over 100mph (160kph).

My point here is while the bikers on this forum always give out to car drivers for poor driving.. do they realise the amount of their kinsmen who blast down roads in this suicidal manner. this is not the first time i have witnessed a big bike tear up the road at insane speed, and in between two vehicles on a busy carriageway- especially with a truck is lunacy- and if he got caught in a side draft of wind and killed it would probably be hailed as a tragic accident.

Hmmmph.

seamus · 17-06-2005 01:11PM

Kermitt wrote:

My point here is while the bikers on this forum always give out to car drivers for poor driving.. do they realise the amount of their kinsmen who blast down roads in this suicidal manner.

All too often. And it does piss me off when I see them, because I know that people are just thinking "See? Biker are psychos!" when he makes his dumb manouver.

a_ominous · 17-06-2005 02:52PM

There isn't really any defence for that type of behaviour. Opens himself to risk at best and could startle other drivers causing them to cause an accident.

Macy · 17-06-2005 03:16PM

tbh I see this every morning and evening on the M11.

As said on the other thread, I have no complaints about flitering when the traffic is stopped. I do have a major problem when it's moving, especially when the main body of traffic is already at the limit.

Bikers say that car drivers don't respect them - well I really think that bikers should begin to appreciate that cars have a blind spot. If you're going to sit in it, it's not entirely the fault of the car driver if he doesn't see you.

I don't think the standard of car drivers is great, but I think proportionately I see more bikers taking dangerous risks than cars. Maybe it's because of more opportunity given it's a smaller machine rather than a real difference in the drivers?

ubu · 17-06-2005 03:17PM

I see it far too often on the roads, overtaking with solid white lines must be part of their ettiquite because im constantly seeing it, its got to the stage where if a bike is behind me i am just waiting for him do make a dangerous manouvre, and they usually do, thats not to say there arent good bike drivers out there, they just seem to be a very small minority

Chalk · 17-06-2005 03:23PM

just to clarify,
you can overtake on a solid white line, but not cross it.

that might explain why bikes "get away with it"

japjap · 17-06-2005 03:28PM

I have to add my two pense worth. Good bike drivers are the majorty not the minority. One reason I say this is when a bike driver gets on a bike its to drive and nothing else. When's the last time you saw a bike driver do any of the following,
read
change radio station
talk to passenger
do make up
shave
talk on phone
chastise kids in back
etc etc etc

Bike drivers have nothing to do but drive. Often I make maouvres that are not alltogether legal to get away from bad car drivers. Anyone everheard of anyone being rear ended by a bike? (apart from me

)

jackal · 17-06-2005 03:30PM

As a biker, I actually have started performing this manover recently, having been totally against filtering on 2-lane roads at anything over 30 mph or so. The reasons are this:

1. When two vehichles are side by side like that, its the one time you can be pretty much guaranteed that they wont decide to swap lanes with no warning or indicators - Especially if there is a big truck in the slow lane. An alternative is to wait for the car to hopefully notice you, and get out of the overtaking lane - which happens about 50% of the time, and I always give a wave of thanks. The other alternative is to overtake them via the slow lane, where you run the risk of them suddenly deciding to get into the slow lane. Repeat this process every 2-3 mins and you might understand why alot of bikers just say, feck this, and go about overtaking cars in this way.

2. If car drivers took the time to look in the rear or wing mirrors occassionally they probably would notice a bike with its lights on, waiting for them to get out of the way for the last 2 minutes.

3. It can be a way of saying, "wake up" to the car driver, probably engrossed in gerry ryan or still half asleep creeping along 1 mph faster than the cars in the slower lane.

4. Bikes really dont take up that much room, so there is usually ample clearance for bikes to get through in the "biker lane".

5. Crosswinds/drafts do not really affect you at 70+ mph.

6. However, being stuck behind anything boxy produces violent turbulence which shakes your head and the bike into a dangerous oscillation - I nearly crashed the first time this happened to me, as I thought a wheel was loose or something equally dangerous. Now I avoid the situation altogether.

7. Like it or not, bikes tend to travel alot faster than cars, as there are more gaps, better accelleration, and we take up much less room.

prospect · 17-06-2005 03:37PM

Can't agree there JapJap,
It has come to the point now, that i am pleasntly surprised when i see a biker driving carefully, and with respect for their driving enviornment.

Although, I would not hold the actions of the Idiot the OP witnessed against all bikers. Every walk of life has some t1t willing to risk their and everyone elses life just to show off.

Also, every morning on the naas road / nangor road, when sitting in traffic and a bike comes up beside me, I always pull in a bit to let them through. At an educated guess, between Citywest (yes the traffic can be back that far sometimes) and the RCR, I could let 10 bikes past each morning. That is about 50 bikes a week.

On a good week 3 maybe 5 will salute and acknowledge. I presume the remainder feel I am olbliged to do it, and therefore a gesture to acknowledge my effort is not required.

japjap · 17-06-2005 03:37PM

I fully agree. When you see bikes make manouvres for no apparent reason there is usually several good reasons you just haven't considered.

a_ominous · 17-06-2005 03:40PM

jackal wrote:

6. However, being stuck behind anything boxy produces violent turbulence which shakes your head and the bike into a dangerous oscillation - I nearly crashed the first time this happened to me, as I thought a wheel was loose or something equally dangerous. Now I avoid the situation altogether.

Not to mention when the roads are wet, the amount of cr@p the wheels throw up. Visor gets dirty and the only way to clean it is to remove left hand from handlebars and wipe finger across it taking car not to scratch it. So the thing to do is to get past the truck as soon and safe as possible.

I hold back filtering when traffic has just started to move or slow down. That's the most likely time for a cager to cut lanes, IME.

prospect · 17-06-2005 03:41PM

japjap wrote:

I fully agree. When you see bikes make manouvres for no apparent reason there is usually several good reasons you just haven't considered.

And likewise for cars

Chalk · 17-06-2005 03:47PM

i dont wave to driver who pull into let me past,
i take up just over a foot of road room and tbh if your pulling in to let me pass your too close to the centre.i can get past a car whos wing mirror is inches from the central line without crossing over

if a car came towards in the same position as you, there'd be a colision.

japjap · 17-06-2005 03:48PM

Prospect,

Car drivers who move over to let me through always get a wave or nod from me, it's common courtesy. Even of it's only 6 inches, it's enough.

My point is bikers don't have the same distractions as car drivers. Also we drive a vehicle that is completely different to a car, that's why drive in a different manner. Just because we overtake where a car wouldn't/couldn't/shouldn't, doesn't mean it's wreckless.

a_ominous · 17-06-2005 03:48PM

prospect wrote:

Also, every morning on the naas road / nangor road, when sitting in traffic and a bike comes up beside me, I always pull in a bit to let them through. At an educated guess, between Citywest (yes the traffic can be back that far sometimes) and the RCR, I could let 10 bikes past each morning. That is about 50 bikes a week.

On a good week 3 maybe 5 will salute and acknowledge. I presume the remainder feel I am olbliged to do it, and therefore a gesture to acknowledge my effort is not required.

That Nangor Road is littered with roadworks and the resultant debris is all over the shop. No road cleaning, just mounds of gravel on lines bikes are inclined to use. So don't feel so bad if a biker doesn't acknowledge your considerate action, he's probably trying to concentrate on not falling in front of you and causing an accident. Honest. It's not always possible to thank someone for a bit of common decency. I rarely nod or get the nod from other bikers in Dublin coz much a higher level of concentration is required.

I'll thank you now on all bike riders.

If more cagers were aware of other road users (peds, cyclists and bikers) and how vulnerable everyone is, the roads might be just a tad safer. Few bikers are going to put them into a dangerous situation. Most cagers do this every day.

krinDar · 17-06-2005 03:52PM

prospect wrote:

On a good week 3 maybe 5 will salute and acknowledge. I presume the remainder feel I am olbliged to do it, and therefore a gesture to acknowledge my effort is not required.

To wave someone thanks requires the person to remove either their hand or
their foot from a primary control of the bike. In heavy traffic it would be
ill advised to do it too much. Also, if you are sitting in traffic it would
mean they are passing a lot of traffic - that is a lot of waving.

Perhaps there are motorcyclists who feel you are obliged to move in
and hence do not acknowledge it, but I would think for many more it
is because they want to keep their focus on their riding.

seamus · 17-06-2005 03:56PM

Sometimes vehicle that move over will get a quick wave. Rarely though, since when thy do move over I'm usually filtering, so to remove a hand wouldn't be worth it. If i can look someone in the eye when they let me through/move out of my way, they'll always get a nod.

prospect · 17-06-2005 03:57PM

Chalk wrote:

your too close to the centre

This is the absoloute utter bullsh1t attitude i am talking about.
WTF are you on about, a car / bike / truck or whatever is entitled to take up as much room on the lane as they like. Once between the lines that is it.
There is absoloutely no law, obligation or requirement to leave any room.

YOU DO NOT HAVE ANY RIGHTS TO BE THERE

seamus · 17-06-2005 04:00PM

prospect wrote:

This is the absoloute utter bullsh1t attitude i am talking about.
WTF are you on about, a car / bike / truck or whatever is entitled to take up as much room on the lane as they like. Once between the lines that is it.
There is absoloutely no law, obligation or requirement to leave any room.

YOU DO NOT HAVE ANY RIGHTS TO BE THERE

Good driving dictates that you should maintain a proper road position, it's part of the rules of the road. If you're closer to the line than you are to the side of the road, you're in the wrong position. This is to allow room for overtaking vehicles to overtake, and to maximise the distance between you and oncoming traffic.

jackal · 17-06-2005 04:01PM

a_ominous wrote:

That Nangor Road is littered with roadworks and the resultant debris is all over the shop. No road cleaning, just mounds of gravel on lines bikes are inclined to use. So don't feel so bad if a biker doesn't acknowledge your considerate action, he's probably trying to concentrate on not falling in front of you and causing an accident. Honest. It's not always possible to thank someone for a bit of common decency. I rarely nod or get the nod from other bikers in Dublin coz much a higher level of concentration is required.

I'll thank you now on all bike riders.

If more cagers were aware of other road users (peds, cyclists and bikers) and how vulnerable everyone is, the roads might be just a tad safer. Few bikers are going to put them into a dangerous situation. Most cagers do this every day.

Agreed, they have the surface of the Nangor road "scraped" in places now, and it causes your tyres to track the scrapes, its very disconcerting. Then you have the sharp bumps where it begins and ends! When are they going to finish that f(*^&ing road!

Most of the people that move over to let a bike filter are white van men, taxi drivers, and men in normal (i.e. not "modded) cars. The worst for blocking you are BMW's, they always want to look up the road, but then again, they piss everyone off! :mad:

I always give a little wave if someone makes any effort whatsoever to move over a little - and thats all a bike needs.

prospect · 17-06-2005 04:03PM

jackal wrote:

Agreed, they have the surface of the Nangor road "scraped" in places now

Kool,
Well, I hadn't considered that one. I shall live with the ignorance on roads with road works.

jackal · 17-06-2005 04:06PM

prospect wrote:

This is the absoloute utter bullsh1t attitude i am talking about.
WTF are you on about, a car / bike / truck or whatever is entitled to take up as much room on the lane as they like. Once between the lines that is it.
There is absoloutely no law, obligation or requirement to leave any room.

YOU DO NOT HAVE ANY RIGHTS TO BE THERE

If a car driver chooses to do this, thats ok. Does them no good, does me no good, but there is nothing really wrong with it. I just wait until there is a chance to get by....

...and add another wing mirror to my collection... mua ah ah ah!

(joking!)

prospect · 17-06-2005 04:08PM

jackal wrote:

...and add another wing mirror to my collection... mua ah ah ah! (joking!)

LOL

Seriously, it is the expectation of some bikers, that everyone should automatically clear for them!
It is bikers like that, and posts like his that is rapidly depleting my tolerance and respect for bikers.

japjap · 17-06-2005 04:09PM

My personal favorite when filtering is when people with electric door mirrors pull them in. I don't know if it's courtesy or the're afraid I'll take the mirror with me, but I always thank them anyway.

jackal · 17-06-2005 04:21PM

I filter all the time, and I have only clipped one mirror. I didnt smash it, but I was so frikking embarresed, and im sure the cager was raging - after all they are just sitting there minding thier own business. Now if I think the gap is too tight, I slow right down and stop, then go trough the gap one handle bar at a time. The look of fear that im going to scrape their mirrors on the cagers faces is priceless though, they dont see me laughing my hole off under the silver visor!

a_ominous · 17-06-2005 04:32PM

prospect wrote:

This is the absoloute utter bullsh1t attitude i am talking about.
WTF are you on about, a car / bike / truck or whatever is entitled to take up as much room on the lane as they like. Once between the lines that is it.
There is absoloutely no law, obligation or requirement to leave any room.

YOU DO NOT HAVE ANY RIGHTS TO BE THERE

Actually prospect, if you have a look at the Rules of the Road,

a driver must generally drive as near to the left hand side of the road as is necessary to allow approaching traffic to pass and following traffic to overtake on the right

Page 23, 18th reprint, Feb 2002. The one with Brendan Howlin in it.

On the Nangor road, there is sufficient space for a bike to overtake a car without causing any inconvenience to others in most parts.

But it is nicer when a driver makes the effort for bikes to pass.

prospect · 17-06-2005 04:37PM

a_ominous wrote:

Actually prospect, if you have a look at the Rules of the Road,
a driver must generally drive as near to the left hand side of the road as is necessary to allow approaching traffic to pass and following traffic to overtake on the right
Page 23, 18th reprint, Feb 2002. The one with Brendan Howlin in it.

Fair enough. I stand corrected.

Does that include motorbikes?
How many have you seen drive as near to the left hand side of the road?
Next time I am in the outside lane approaching newlands cross, and there is a motorbike driving up the line on my left, I'll pull over as far to the left as possible.

a_ominous · 17-06-2005 04:37PM

eh prospect, I'm just after seeing your previous post. I think you really opened a can of worms there.
Many people on bikes can see more of the road (being higher up) and can fit into smaller gaps so they will try to seize the opportunity for moving forward. A slow or stationary bike is more unstable than a moving bike too.

Chalk · 17-06-2005 04:39PM

bikers who request you obey the rules of the road?

as i pointed ouut, if you need to pull in for me then you ARE to close to the centre,
swear and caps lock all you want, you are.

if on the other hand there is enough room and you pull over that bit further to make my life easier, i say thanks, and any car that does that gets a wave,
whether its just dipping my hand sideways or a lifesaver and a grin.
whether they see it or not is hardly a big deal, is it?
the gesture is there.

i drive home the same route every day past the same scenarios in traffic,
ive driven differnet routes and differnet roads and its always the same.

ive been driving 3 years, with nowt so much as a caution from a guard, never mind a colliosn.
ive had my share of close calls, but i consider the fact that these were close calls rather than collisions down to my abiltiy to make a judement on what a car is going to do.
in all cases i judge that even if the car veers into my sideways ive given myself enough room to get out safe.

i respect other motorists and drive to my abilities and within the law.
nothing more nothing less.

if you want a smile and a wave while i leave you sitting in traffic im sorry but its not always gonna happen.

a_ominous · 17-06-2005 04:42PM

prospect wrote:

Fair enough. I stand corrected.

Does that include motorbikes?
How many have you seen drive as near to the left hand side of the road?

It does. But when the road is wide enough, a car is stuck in a line of traffic, a bike can physically overtake without crossing the line, continuous or not.

One other thing for other ppl (not you prospect!) to note: mopeds really shouldn't ride 6 inches from the kerb. Way to close to drains, etc. at 50 kmph. Also can be seen as an invitation to cars to overtake at illegal speeds and is often done with little room to spare.

prospect wrote:

Next time I am in the outside lane approaching newlands cross, and there is a motorbike driving up the line on my left, I'll pull over as far to the left as possible.

Thanks again mate!

Chalk · 17-06-2005 04:42PM

dawballz wrote:

AFAIK for a bike hile driving(in general) the bike should be poisitioned just right of the centre of the lane he is in.

just to the left is standard practise now,
youll rarely see that unless on a long stretch of road as most bikes take whatever room they can get.

not too many cars would be pleased if they missed a set of lights because 5 bikes were driving in single file ahead of them.

Psycho bikers - Giving bad rep?

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