Superstitous - help!!!

nesf · 04-05-2005 09:23PM

solas wrote:

well I'm not going to ban you, I could have banned landser for his outrageous contribution but he got a warning, I know you are already aware of how this works.
Conisder this is my "wagging finger" post, anymore abusive posts in this thread will be deleted and posters banned.

other than that I have the urge to stand up and say objection sustained.

I'll play nice

Just his posts were pushing one of the few buttons that I have that cause me to have an uncontrollable need to rant at the poster in an effort to re-educate them. Have this problem in real life too tbh.

And generally I'm such a nice and considerate person

landser · 05-05-2005 09:28AM

nesf, you're a complete and utter idiot. from your rant, it seems to me that you have some serious anger issues and some form of juvenile/geriatric profanity syndrome. have you considered counselling

i don't believe that being homosexual is a mental health issue, in the same way that i don;t believe in santa claus or sun worship

there is a link between ocd and superstitious rituals, and the latter can often be the manifestation of the former... look it up.

finally, i like your threat against my personal well being, now that's just being silly, isn;t it. it's a pity that your post descended into name calling, threats of violence, and lastly, some pathetic non advice to the OP.

ciao

NewFrockTuesday · 05-05-2005 09:39AM

but ANYONE who flames or abuses this policy will be permanently banned without question or hesitation

In the interest of fair modding, may I ask if nesf is going to be banned?the worst sort of personal abuse disguised as re-reducation is appalling. This forum is pretty much in open season and things dont look set to get any better with someone like nesf setting the agenda of what is basically a very vicious attack on another members opinion. I realise the charter is one of "pinch of salt consideration" but Landsers post was nothing that deserved this torrent of abuse.

Go find beat yourself over the head with a brick and do yourself a favour. Major brain trauma may be benificial in your case

Thats just plain ol' psyco tbh. You have let Landser turn you into a flurry of rage so he must have hit on a nerve somewhere. I agree Landser is somewhat unsympethitic to the cause but your way out of line and letting the whole forum down with your poison. Sad.

Oh dear....Im probably in for it now :eek: :eek: :eek:

ISAW · 05-05-2005 09:41AM

solas wrote:

well I'm not going to ban you, I could have banned landser for his outrageous contribution but he got a warning,...

A bit odd isnt it?

considering you actually posted the charter earlier:

ANYONE who flames or abuses this policy will be permanently banned without question or hesitation
Some rules:

* As I have already stated this forum is for those that have an interest in the paranormal as such disparaging statements against posters for voicing their beliefs are not welcome.
* Please be careful with the links you provide, make sure their arent ample pop-ups or that the links dont lead to porn web pages etc.
* the usual rules for boards forums apply here, no flaming, trolling, personal abuse or insults
* There will be zero-tolerance for any poster in violation of the first rule

Now IMHO Landsers post was far less (if any ) of a transgression of the charter.

But you couldent ban him since you would also have to ban nesf for a much worse transgression from a post which was by his own admission a rant so I wouldnt think it is a fair critique of Landser.

I understand the bind you are in. Everyone probably has a bias but you cant show yours and have to be level handed. I respect that. Had you banned either of them you would have to ban both. You chose not to ban either. Fair enough. But it is not along the lines of the charter you posted.

Anyway I am glad that apologies are accepted and people given a fair chance and second chance. Unfortunately you are NOT following your own charter as it stands (see above particularly rule 1 3 and 4) in doing this so I suggest you include an appeals section in the charter.

I state the above as someone who recently arrived and was given the benefit of doubt but was not as exterme as either of the above two potential "banees".

judi · 05-05-2005 11:29AM

woh guys.... whats all the agro about?? Seriously when i joined this forum i did not expect tension with the other members!! i would of expeced a debate maybe as obviously everyone has different opinions on certain issues, but the extent of the debate here is gone way, way overboard.....chill out please:)
keep the peace among us=>

solas · 05-05-2005 11:51AM

If you have an issue with my modding take it to feedback.
Here's how it works, if you disobey the charter you recieve a warning, if you decide to ignore to not heed that warning it results in a ban, just so that you can't say you weren't advised.
Dahamsta received a ban yesterday after ignoring a warning against abusive posting.
Landser has been warned and nesf has been warned.
To ISAW with regard to the charter, it was applied by bug who was the orignial moderator of the forum and adpated by syke who no longer mods here either.

ISAW wrote:

Now IMHO Landsers post was far less (if any ) of a transgression of the charter.

They both are guilty of the same transgressions and both recieved fair warning.

any more off topic posts and the thread will be locked.

Oryx · 05-05-2005 12:19PM

And it isnt even friday 13th

back on topic: Judi, do you think any of the relevant posts may help? Are you any more reassured about your move?

solas · 05-05-2005 12:37PM

I think Nesf made a very important point here

nesf wrote:

Superstition can be a very hard thing within your life. Personally I don't believe in any of them but I've seen a lot of people that do. The only power that they have over you is the power you give them by believing in them. If you stop thinking about them and worrying about them, then you will be able to live your life without being a slave to superstition.

You can change your attitudes towards how you perceive certain "omens", all you have to do is associate it with somethng good. Most superstitions are derived from pagan beliefs, especially associations with birds, the fact that you believe in them only gives them power over you. Try to find another way of looking at it or focus your attention on something more positive, perhaps you could start drawing up design plans for your new house and thinking positive thoughts about all the good times you will have there.

Kernel · 05-05-2005 01:35PM

Anyone who says they are not superstitious should think of this:

You're flying out on holidays the next day, you have a dream the plane crashes. You wake up and John Denver (who died in a plane crash) is on the radio singing : "Sweet dreams and flying machines in pieces on the ground". You drop your shaving mirror and smash it. On your way out the garden you see a black cat cross your path and a magpie flies into your face. It's friday the 13th. John Denver is playing on the radio. Your row number is 13.

Would you still get on the plane??

I think you need to be rational about superstition. Many of us have things that we associate with bad luck, omens or such like, for dealing with superstition you just have to break the cycle and go for it, once you break a superstition and (usually) nothing bad happens, then it becomes easier to forget about them and get on with things. I'm a believer that everything happens for a reason, and if you have good luck or bad luck it's meant to happen either way.

Zillah · 05-05-2005 01:37PM

Would you still get on the plane??

Yes. And as soon as I landed I'd do the lotto, because the laws of probability seem to have gone out the window

Kernel · 05-05-2005 01:41PM

Zillah wrote:

Yes. And as soon as I landed I'd do the lotto, because the laws of probability seem to have gone out the window

haha. Yeah I suppose that's one way to look at it!

Oryx · 05-05-2005 01:42PM

Kernel, yeah id get on the plane! Im someone who deliberately walks under ladders.

I refuse to be at the mercy of a superstition, the only one I still do is salute magpies but I think thats just being friendly

Kernel · 05-05-2005 02:01PM

KatieK wrote:

Kernel, yeah id get on the plane! Im someone who deliberately walks under ladders. I refuse to be at the mercy of a superstition, the only one I still do is salute magpies but I think thats just being friendly

haha, well there you go Judi, looks like it's ok to flout the cosmic power of superstition.

PS - I wouldn't get on the plane though!

Chavster · 05-05-2005 02:13PM

Unless you're a medieval Knight Templar, Friday 13th shouldn't hold much fear for anybody. Friday 13th is considered unlucky (by Christian Cultures anyway) because of the arrest, and mass torture of the Knights Templar in France on Friday 13th October 1307AD. The date has been considered unlucky ever since. Some in info here

Although i don't believe in superstitions myself, i'll walk under ladders do the same things on Fri 13th as every other day etc etc I do believe that they can have power over people that believe in them. Superstition taken to the extreme would be an example of aboriginal Australia. If a medicine man (or their equivalent) curses another aborigine who believes in his power then generally they will be affected by it. The power of the mind is the greatest thing....

ISAW · 05-05-2005 02:28PM

solas wrote:

You can change your attitudes towards how you perceive certain "omens", all you have to do is associate it with somethng good. Most superstitions are derived from pagan beliefs, especially associations with birds, the fact that you believe in them only gives them power over you.

What if I am superstitious about Arabs and believe they are hiding something like WMD ?

If I believe they have the power of WMD I might do something about it (like invading their country) or not do something about it (like allowing their people to starve and die of pestilence) when I could have helped.

Surely the positive thing to do is to find out whether the beliefs you have are true? That can be done by measuring what happens when so called unlucky omens happen. Better still do it blind. Get someone to put you in one of these situations without you knowing it e.g. walk blindfolded in a park where there MIGHT be a black cat or magpies. You are not told. Then you determine whether that day was lucky or not. Finally you compare that with the list of bad omens which has been kept without you knowing on which day they happened. If you have three unlucky days a month and they match with say the only three bad omen days I think you are on to something. I bet you a thousand dollars they wont match though. Well 27000 i think is nearer the chance of it happening by accident.

If that doesnt work judi what evidence would it take to convince you that ANY superstition is not supported by observation?

judi · 05-05-2005 02:47PM

KatieK wrote:

And it isnt even friday 13th

back on topic: Judi, do you think any of the relevant posts may help? Are you any more reassured about your move?

yeah!!
im just gona move, what the heck, all these threads relating to my post are quite interesing! and some even reasuring!!

so Friday the 13th it is

somehow im still not cured of my other superstitions tho :eek:

solas · 05-05-2005 03:00PM

ISAW wrote:

What if I am superstitious about Arabs and believe they are hiding something like WMD ? If I believe they have the power of WMD I might do something about it (like invading their country) or not do something about it (like allowing their people to starve and die of pestilence) when I could have helped.
Surely the positive thing to do is to find out whether the beliefs you have are true?

I agree, although I'm not sure I would class that issue as a superstition.
I'm more familiar with the tterm superstition being applied to "A belief, practice, or rite irrationally maintained by ignorance of the laws of nature or by faith in magic or chance."

solas wrote:

You can change your attitudes towards how you perceive certain "omens", all you have to do is associate it with somethng good.

Perhaps I just didn't put it as eloquently as you.

Talliesin · 05-05-2005 03:09PM

I think it's worth looking at what superstitions are. For one thing they are not belief in the paranormal, unless you also subscribe to a worldview that has no place for such belief. A materialist who believes in ghosts is superstitious, a Spiritualist who believes in ghosts is not. Indeed a Spiritualist who believes there is no such thing as ghosts is arguably superstitious.

We do things sometimes labeled superstition for various reasons.

Consider the case of someone who gives a libation of whiskey for the fairies on Bealtaine and Samhain.

Someone might do this because they believe in fairies and their behaviour is not superstitious, indeed it's perfectly reasonable.

Someone might do this because their parents did it and their grandparents did it and they don't believe in fairies but it's a nice tradition. Again this is not superstition, and a lot of people do various things on Samhain or Christmas on such grounds. It's tradition.

Someone might do this due to a serious conflict between their views and those they claim to have, this is heresy (hence the Catholic Church condemning the practice of leaving food or drink for the fairies, though these days its probably not high on their list of concerns). Such mild heresies are the sources of many things that later became superstitious (generally not a matter of outright condemnation and distortion from above though, but more the conflict between two opposing views within the minds of several people in a community can lead to strange distortions).

Someone might do this because they believe in fairies, while simultaneously holding to a world view that has no place for fairies (e.g. materialist) This is superstition.

Someone might do this and not even know why they are doing it (i.e. pouring a libation of whisky, not knowing that the whiskey is for the fairies) but feel that good things will happen if they do and/or bad things will happen if they don't. This is also superstition.

Someone who holds to such a superstitious view may get extremely agitated, possibly to the extent of panic if they fail to perform the libation. This is both superstition and a psychological problem.

Indeed such panic is more likely in the case of someone who follows the superstitious practice than someone who follows exactly the same practice due to a more fully-formed belief precisely because the superstitious person has less understanding of what they are doing to reasonably evaluate the risk or benefit. After all you may feel that Friday the 13th is a bad time to do something (or the 8th day of the month, or when the moon is void of course, and so on) but we know that some times are more dangerous to drive during and still do so when we need to. We can evaluate the risk when we can put that risk into a fuller context, but not otherwise.

If such superstitious fear becomes debilitating then it is wise to seek professional help readjusting your views.

Also, use exclamation marks sparingly, not a superstitious thing, just better punctuation.

mime · 05-05-2005 03:20PM

If you dwel on bad things they tend to seem worse

stevenmu · 05-05-2005 04:14PM

KatieK wrote:

Kernel, yeah id get on the plane! Im someone who deliberately walks under ladders. I refuse to be at the mercy of a superstition, the only one I still do is salute magpies but I think thats just being friendly

Walking under ladders is probably the only superstition I can think of that has a definite, logical basis. It should be relatively easy to verify too, I'm sure if someone was so inclined they do a statistical analysis of the chances of getting a can of paint over the head when walking under a ladder versus when walking around one

nesf · 05-05-2005 04:43PM

landser wrote:

nesf, you're a complete and utter idiot. from your rant, it seems to me that you have some serious anger issues and some form of juvenile/geriatric profanity syndrome. have you considered counselling

i don't believe that being homosexual is a mental health issue, in the same way that i don;t believe in santa claus or sun worship

there is a link between ocd and superstitious rituals, and the latter can often be the manifestation of the former... look it up.

finally, i like your threat against my personal well being, now that's just being silly, isn;t it. it's a pity that your post descended into name calling, threats of violence, and lastly, some pathetic non advice to the OP.

ciao

Start a new thread on this board with a view with discussing superstition regarding mental illness. Back your posts up with references and links, I'll do the same.

As I already stated, your posts touched on some of my buttons, but I've had to deal with the consequences of people doing what you did. It is not nice or pretty. My reaction was out of line, and not constructive. I've already said that.

I don't think that us debating the issue here serves the thread any purpose.

Capt'n Midnight · 22-05-2005 04:27PM

It's unlucky to be superstitious.

Some stupersitions as other posters have shown are folk memories of actual events , like the 13 people at the last supper. In Japan the unlucky number is 4 and is a tad harder to avoid - but if 13 or 4 were truly unlucky they they would be more universally avoided by all cultures. Humans are also very good at pattern recognition to the extent that they will detect pattern when there are non present - all of the conspiracy theorys can't be true !

Interesting enough is most people pick the same number when asked to pick a number between 1 and 4 - so there are patterns in human behaviour, but if you don't want your life to be programmed or second-guessed by marketing gimps and focus groups it might be better to step out side the pigeon hole from time to time.

SkepticOne · 25-05-2005 02:47AM

Talliesin wrote:

Someone might do this because they believe in fairies and their behaviour is not superstitious, indeed it's perfectly reasonable.

Someone might do this because their parents did it and their grandparents did it and they don't believe in fairies but it's a nice tradition. Again this is not superstition, and a lot of people do various things on Samhain or Christmas on such grounds. It's tradition.

Someone might do this due to a serious conflict between their views and those they claim to have, this is heresy (hence the Catholic Church condemning the practice of leaving food or drink for the fairies, though these days its probably not high on their list of concerns). Such mild heresies are the sources of many things that later became superstitious (generally not a matter of outright condemnation and distortion from above though, but more the conflict between two opposing views within the minds of several people in a community can lead to strange distortions).

Someone might do this because they believe in fairies, while simultaneously holding to a world view that has no place for fairies (e.g. materialist) This is superstition.

Someone might do this and not even know why they are doing it (i.e. pouring a libation of whisky, not knowing that the whiskey is for the fairies) but feel that good things will happen if they do and/or bad things will happen if they don't. This is also superstition.

So it is the absence of a mythological belief system that makes an action superstitous? But isn't the mythological belief system in itself superstitious?

It seems to me that they are both the same thing but operating on a different level. The believer in fairies and gnomes just has a more complicated superstitious set of beliefs. To someone who is outside this system, the libation of whiskey is just part of a larger superstitious system within which there is some internal logic.

Superstitous - help!!!

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