Tipping

Lump · 04-05-2005 04:58PM

Oh, and if I'm in a restraunt I tend to ask the waiter/waitress their name instead of calling them that.

You are rather ignorant and rude Morningstar.

John

kenmc · 04-05-2005 05:00PM

Whats the deal with this "Service charge" anyway - is that optional or compulsory? If that goes on the bill, there is ZERO tip given. In fact once i've even walked away leaving only the cash for the actual meal on the table, crossed out "Service charge" and wrote "Service crap" on the bill. And never went back to that restaurant anyway.
Whats the legalities of that? did i steal? but that bloody "service charge" really irks me.

Tony H · 04-05-2005 05:05PM

A chef rarely gets any of the tip even though the food he provides is good. Tipping is generally an unfair practice.[/QUOTE]

why in the name of god should the chef get any tips ? the waitress is generally on min wage and the chef is on 15, 20euros an hour
my missus worked in a small place and the two french chefs who were on very good money used to come down at the end of the night and divide up the tips and take their cut first.

Lump · 04-05-2005 05:06PM

If the service charge is included, you have to pay for it.... IE if it was included in the price of say a pizza. That's what the pizza cost.

How ever, if they automatically add 10% to the end of the bill for a service charge, I tell them to **** off. It's optional in that case - at least in my opinion.

John

kenmc · 04-05-2005 05:12PM

Lump wrote:

If the service charge is included, you have to pay for it.... IE if it was included in the price of say a pizza. That's what the pizza cost.

How ever, if they automatically add 10% to the end of the bill for a service charge, I tell them to **** off. It's optional in that case - at least in my opinion.
John

Thats what I mean. If the menu says pizza X = 10.95 then thats what I expect to pay for it. Adding a blanket 10% service charge at the bottom of the bill is what I'm talking about. I don't expect to pay 10.95 + 1.095 = 12.045.
Especially irks me when they have something in tiny print at the bottom of the menu "10% service charge will be added to parties of 4 or more" - why?

grumpytrousers · 04-05-2005 05:18PM

MorningStar wrote:

You mis-understand! Later when you are paying your own taxes maybe you might think twice about giving some money tax free on top of the highest minmum wage in Europe to anybody while you pay all your taxes.

Oh for gods sakes, less of the po-faced 'they don't pay taxes' argument already...

Shock bloody horror. Where did I leave my bottle of righteous indignation?!?!

To be honest, the job I have is a decent one, and I'm well paid for it. I'm not sure that I'm *worth* more than people who bust a gut in other places of work and get paid less. And for every sullen grumpy waiter/waitress you've come across, who works in a pretty uncomfortable environment, there's plenty of 'em have a good reason, after dealing with plenty of sullen/grumpy customers!

However, leaving aside that moral dilemma of 'who deserves to be paid how much' for a minute, I'm happy to tip people who I feel deserve a few quid, people who I think went the extra mile in making my drinking/dining experience more enjoyable.

I pay taxes, and I still probably end up with more than they will after taxes, so any few bob that less paid people get to make Cash-in-hand, then good luck to 'em. Period. Karma, innit!

Keyzer · 04-05-2005 05:22PM

pickarooney wrote:

That's an appalling way to treat someone and a blatant double-standard (IMO).

What are you on about?
What are you supposed to call them? a random name until they correct you and tell you their real name.

Its called the service industry for a reason.
I expect to treated well when I go to a restaurant for food.

Lump · 04-05-2005 05:42PM

Ask them their name. Also in most decent places they'll say "Hello, welcome to MACCY D'S, I'm Katie and I'll be serving you tonight."

Good method tbh, I always make an effort to tip the person who brings the food/shows us to the table... unless the place has a matradee (Spelling) Then I bribe them for teh good tables

Some places if you leave a tip any random waiter will walk up and nick it.
John

04-05-2005 05:43PM

This is the most disgusting conversation I have ever come across in my life. You people are genuinely disturbing me.

I have worked in the service industry for the last 9 years of my life. I've been a KP, A cook, A waiter, a barman and a manager.

Waiter/esses get paid (as of 4 days ago) 7.65 an hour. They work nights, sometimes til 2/3 o'clock in the morning and might be back in at 10am for breakfast/prep for lunch.
If they don't deserve tips for that... I don't know. And before you give me guff... That's their job, So what, why not make it easier and be nice to them?

Barmen: Get paid well, some very well. One establishment I worked in I was on £12 an hour. And with that, 50+ hours a week, Dealing with drunk arrogant pr*cks 5-6 nights a week. I never got to see my girlfriend and my one night off a week was spent in an alcohol induced daze.
I ALWAYS tip barmen. And with good reason. If it's a local bar, you buy rounds for your friends, include your barman and it will come back to you.
If you're in a club. DEFINITELY tip. It's the single most easiest way to get served faster and skip queues.
It's so easy, don't think of it in a financial sense. Think of the nights that you get to spend socialising, while this waitress/waiter/barperson works and think about how they can actually enjoy that few quid you give them.

Keyzer · 04-05-2005 05:50PM

Papa Smut wrote:

This is the most disgusting conversation I have ever come across in my life. You people are genuinely disturbing me.

I have worked in the service industry for the last 9 years of my life. I've been a KP, A cook, A waiter, a barman and a manager.

Waiter/esses get paid (as of 4 days ago) 7.65 an hour. They work nights, sometimes til 2/3 o'clock in the morning and might be back in at 10am for breakfast/prep for lunch.
If they don't deserve tips for that... I don't know. And before you give me guff... That's their job, So what, why not make it easier and be nice to them?

Barmen: Get paid well, some very well. One establishment I worked in I was on £12 an hour. And with that, 50+ hours a week, Dealing with drunk arrogant pr*cks 5-6 nights a week. I never got to see my girlfriend and my one night off a week was spent in an alcohol induced daze.
I ALWAYS tip barmen. And with good reason. If it's a local bar, you buy rounds for your friends, include your barman and it will come back to you.
If you're in a club. DEFINITELY tip. It's the single most easiest way to get served faster and skip queues.
It's so easy, don't think of it in a financial sense. Think of the nights that you get to spend socialising, while this waitress/waiter/barperson works and think about how they can actually enjoy that few quid you give them.

Break out the kleenex and violins...

Tough **** man... Its not my fault people have jobs where they have to work late hours and deal with bufoons...

I used to work a 12 hr night shift dealing with dicks from the US.
I didn't get a tip. So why should you?
If you don't like your job or the hours, get something different. Stop expecting handouts. You get paid well enough.
If a waiter/waitress goes out of their way to make me feel welcome in the restaurant and do more than the job they get paid for, then they get a tip.
If some dick, with attitude, who does nothing more than the job that they actually get paid for, they get nothing, because they don't deserve it.

04-05-2005 06:03PM

Keyzer wrote:

I used to work a 12 hr night shift dealing with dicks from the US.
I didn't get a tip. So why should you?

How much were you getting paid? Was it a fiver an hour, I doubt it.

If you don't like your job or the hours, get something different. Stop expecting handouts. You get paid well enough.

What if people enjoy the job, but it isn't worth the strain that working nights puts on a family?
And how is service a "handout"?

If you food arrives prompt, the table cleaned after, promptly and you are addressed in the proper fashion...

Explain how that is a "Handout" :mad: :mad: :mad:

David19 · 04-05-2005 06:32PM

Papa Smut wrote:

And how is service a "handout"?

If you food arrives prompt, the table cleaned after, promptly and you are addressed in the proper fashion...

Explain how that is a "Handout" :mad: :mad: :mad:

Its a handout because you're payed to do all that already.

Keyzer · 04-05-2005 06:35PM

Papa Smut wrote:

How much were you getting paid? Was it a fiver an hour, I doubt it.:

At the time I was not on much more than min wage....

Papa Smut wrote:

What if people enjoy the job, but it isn't worth the strain that working nights puts on a family?:

Hard luck.
I like my job (to an extent) but I have to put up with crap as well.
I still don't get tips for it. Nor do the majority of people who have really crap jobs.

Papa Smut wrote:

If you food arrives prompt, the table cleaned after, promptly and you are addressed in the proper fashion...

Explain how that is a "Handout" :mad: :mad: :mad:

Waiters/Waitresses do get paid for this don't they?
Last time I checked they did. If they relied on tips alone then it would be a different story. The guy who busts his balls in the kitchen making the meal gets no tip, the guy who makes the drink gets no tip but the person who smiles and brings the stuff to you does? Thats unfair IMO....

I worked in Planet Hollywood a few years back, in the kitchens.
The waiters there, at the time, were making obscene money in tips.
What cut of that did the kitchen staff get? Jack sh1t is what we got....
Now figure that one out mate. That was the hardest job I ever had, worked my ass off for a fiver an hour and these muppets were making a fortune (believe me they made a fortune) for working almost half the hours I worked and doing a lot less work.

04-05-2005 06:50PM

Everywhere I worked, kitchen staff got paid more per hour AND got a percentage of tips.
And just because you had a bad time in the industry, you're going to take it out on all the other people that work in it?

How bloody mature.

You are the type of person I hate serving, Where I could serve you to the absolute best of my ability and get a measly €5 off a €150 meal

Lump · 04-05-2005 06:51PM

Glad to see I won my end of the argument....

John

By you not replying, I win by default.

The Bollox · 04-05-2005 06:55PM

Lump wrote:

Glad to see I won my end of the argument....

John

By you not replying, I win by default.

:eek: you messed up the 'John' part! lol

Keyzer · 04-05-2005 07:07PM

Papa Smut wrote:

Everywhere I worked, kitchen staff got paid more per hour AND got a percentage of tips.
And just because you had a bad time in the industry, you're going to take it out on all the other people that work in it?

How bloody mature.

You are the type of person I hate serving, Where I could serve you to the absolute best of my ability and get a measly €5 off a €150 meal

My experience was just an example. If you think I have a vendetta against waiters/waitresses then your sadly mistaken.

If a waiter/waitress looks after me, and not talking polish my shoes after serving me my meal, Im talking about being nice and friendly, courteous and mannerly etc. all the things a proper waiter/waitress does, then they get a tip, providing the food is good.
If someone brings me the parmesan and says "D'ye want some", like what you'd say to your mate offering him some crisps, then they are fighting a losing battle if they expect a tip. If they then disappear with my change for 15 minutes expecting me to forget I paid the bill and go home without asking for my money back, then my friend you not only get nothing, you get complained about. Sadly, these examples really did happen.

And just for the record, I'm not the pr1ck person who comes into a restaurant with attitude. I genuinely give the waiters/waitresses a chance.
At the end of the day, if you expect more from me then why shouldn't I expect more from you?

ahsurewhynot · 04-05-2005 07:10PM

I worked as a lounge girl at Christmas parties for years. You'd work hard fom six in the evening preparing the place and wouldn't be home till fourish the next morning, after cleaning up and all. You were on your feet the whole time, and, being under 18, on less than minimum wage. Its in my nature to be mannerly so I always did my best to help people out in any way possible, for example if there was a bottle of red and a bottle of white on each table and the customers at a certain table only drank white, i'd make every effort to swap their red for them. I didn't do it in search of tips but tbh, if you didnt get something, however small, you'd feel like they hadn't appreciated the effort you'd put in.
People in other jobs don't get tips because they tend to be paid more-for example, the dentists/builders mentioned earlier-and many receive bonuses for a job well done.
The worst is when people would promise to tip at the end of the night and then sneak out-i'd rather you said nothing.
A couple of euro will probably mean nothing to you but it means a lot to them. Bad service doesn't deserve a tip but I'd always tip good service and not doing so is scabby.

04-05-2005 07:24PM

Keyzer wrote:

providing the food is good.

So if the service is great and in your opinion, kitchen staff don't get tips.

Why the hell won't you tip?

Is it the waiting staff's fault?

Lump · 04-05-2005 07:29PM

Marts wrote:

:eek: you messed up the 'John' part! lol

How.... I ment to put the explaination after the sign off, incase the stupid people didn't know what I was talking about .

John

The Bollox · 04-05-2005 07:31PM

oh right, I just wanted to ease the tension(sp?)

Kernel · 04-05-2005 07:48PM

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

On one occassion, a few mates were out for a massive feed in a local Chinese. The bill came to something like 350 euro including drink.

One of my mates insisted on paying for everyone. Naturally, I wouldn't let him and told him that if he paid for it, we would give each of our share of the bill to the waitress as a tip.

She ended up getting near 350 euro as a tip.. Poor girl dropped..

Your decadent capitalist disregard for money spits in the face of starving and dying third world children. Good resource hogger - no money for you kids... ah sure, I bet the girl had nice tits though.

Oh and Papa Smut, it's not the customer who has to renumerate the staff of an establishment for their ****ty hours/pay. It is up to their bosses to look after their staff, not the customer, who is doing them a favour by frequenting and spending in their establishment.

The customer is king. The sole reason the business exists is to provide for the customer and make money in the process.

:cool:

jesus_thats_gre · 04-05-2005 07:51PM

Kernel wrote:

Your decadent capitalist disregard for money spits in the face of starving and dying third world children. Good resource hogger - no money for you kids... ah sure, I bet the girl had nice tits though.

Not really no. Can't remember what she looks like to be honest.

I wasn't thinking of the children at the time. ohh the children..

Kernel · 04-05-2005 07:55PM

jesus_thats_gre wrote:

I wasn't thinking of the children at the time. ohh the children..

You're not supposed to, Jesus, you're not supposed to. If we did, then we'd feel too guilty while we quaffed back Kristal in our '05 7 series BMW's.

We're a selfish lot.

Enii · 04-05-2005 08:21PM

D wrote:

No of course not but in america the usual minimum expected from a tip in 10%, in most restaurants the sevice charge is 10% although for more upmarket places the service charge is 12.5%. In posh restaurants the tips generally go up to 25%.

I think the minimum is 15% - 20% in America, the best thing is to double the 8% tax.

Sleepy · 04-05-2005 09:37PM

I'd usually tip unless there's a service charge, the food is crap or the service is poor. I tip barstaff if I get table service, if it's really busy or if it's around christmas. How much I'd tip depends on the service level, the company I'm in and my sobriety!

Taxis, Pizza Deliveries etc. all depend on the amount of the order, I couldn't usually be bothered hanging around for someone to dig around in their pocket for 1/2 euros!

Keyzer · 04-05-2005 10:33PM

Kernel wrote:

Your decadent capitalist disregard for money spits in the face of starving and dying third world children. Good resource hogger - no money for you kids... ah sure, I bet the girl had nice tits though.

Oh and Papa Smut, it's not the customer who has to renumerate the staff of an establishment for their ****ty hours/pay. It is up to their bosses to look after their staff, not the customer, who is doing them a favour by frequenting and spending in their establishment.

The customer is king. The sole reason the business exists is to provide for the customer and make money in the process.

:cool:

Well said...

I don't for a meal for crap food and great service and vice versa.
I go for the combination of both.

And like Kernel says, if you get paid crap, why should the customer have to balance the books? Shouldn't you be taking that up with your boss?

The customer is just expected to tip, no matter what the service or food is like, and IMO this is wrong.
I'm not looking for much to be honest, just for you to do your job properly.

Tusky · 04-05-2005 10:44PM

NEVER TIP TAXI BASTARD DRIVERS (unless they are really nice

funky penguin · 04-05-2005 11:08PM

MorningStar wrote:

If you knew some etiquette and manners you would understand that you would call them waiter or waitress unless they wear name tags then you are allowed call them by their first name.

If you knew some etiquette or perhaps had some manners, you would not imply I was devoid of any, and treat these people with some respect.

MorningStar · 05-05-2005 08:29AM

funky penguin wrote:

If you knew some etiquette or perhaps had some manners, you would not imply I was devoid of any, and treat these people with some respect.

The correct form of respect is to call them waiter/waitress. From your comments it is obvious you don't know how to act in certain social situations. You think that by calling them by their job title is some form of disrespect it is not. Manners and etiquette are the same thing which proves your ignorance. As I have already said my mother works as a waitress and I have worked in the service industry myself.

My mother works less hours and gets more money due to tips. Many of the people who tip her don't realise that she makes more money than them. She has done the job for a long time and says that people just tip for nothing now. For her 26hours a week it is the same as a taxed income of €60K a year, it is a bar carvery place not a fancy restraunt. People are tipping too much now is the way I feel and I don't think ANYBODY should get additional income
without paying tax. Call it rightous indignation but I think it is a sense of fair play for all.

Tipping

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