What the Americans think of Ireland

Pet · 03-04-2005 05:19AM

I like learning about other countries. The USA isn't the center of the universe that many Americans think it is, but (politics aside) it does have some good points and some "down home" hospitality.

Oh, I'm not an American-hater, I've been there plenty of times and have had great experiences. For every stupid Bush-loving hick there's an intelligent, well-informed decent human being, and imho, the good outweighs the bad. There's a bit of hostility between "us" at the moment, but I think Bush is to blame, because I don't remember anti-Americanism being present a few years ago. And I feel sorry for you, and about 50% of your fellow Americans, who have to feel less-than-proud of their own country because of its actions and its figurehead.
Also, it doesn't bother me that Americans in America have a good, if somewhat unrealistic view of Ireland. It's just that - I actually feel bad, or ashamed, when they (or other tourists) come here and have their preconceptions shattered (sometimes violently).

a haven of...happy people.

I voice disagreement. Maybe it's the weather, or the filth, I don't know. But Dublin is inherently depressing to me. It's like Los Angeles, except without the sunshine and palm trees. And the people reflect that.

I've travelled much of europe and each city is different. From my experience Dublin tends to be no worse and no better than most of them.

As have I. And every single city I've been to has been more affordable, more cultured, cleaner, and most of all safer, than Dublin. Comparing the likes of Paris or Barcelona to Dublin is ridiculous. Even Marseilles, with all the crime, is a better place!

You say dublin has no redeeming features?! I seriously laugh at that. I'd rather not make a list because I'll be here forever tbh, I'd rather let you think about them..

There are redeeming features, of course. Lots of history, and it's probably a bit less impersonal than most capitals, but then again it's a lot smaller too. But I believe the bad outweighs the good.

solas · 03-04-2005 05:45AM

I'm just very glad I'm Irish.

PeadarofAodh · 03-04-2005 12:30PM

I was in Chicago 2 weeks ago and visited two large schools over there...and the amount of times I was asked why my English was so good :mad:

ApeXaviour · 03-04-2005 02:21PM

Apologies for going slightly off-topic..

Pet wrote:

It's like Los Angeles, except without the sunshine and palm trees. And the people reflect that.

OMG it is nothing like los angeles! Tbh in any city I've been in I've never seen as many people walking around the streets with smiles on their faces as I have in Dublin.

Pet wrote:

And every single city I've been to has been more affordable,

And they get paid less. Basic economics I'm afraid.

Pet wrote:

more cultured,

I'd completely disagree. But it depends on your definition of cultured. By your use of it I think a better term would be pretentious.

Pet wrote:

cleaner,

Possibly, but that's only cos you farmers get so much more investment per capita than we do, (then complain that we get all the attention). A fairer system would yield a sparkling city I can guarantee you.

Pet wrote:

and most of all safer

Now that's just laughable! A very naive statement. You see the "rabble" a lot more in dublin. I think you confuse violence merely with a lack of discretion. There's a loudness, an audacity "anee change for da bus mate?" among dublin scumbags but in general they're a lot more timid than our western counterparts. Neither I or any of my friends have ever been mugged in Dublin. My brother was, once. They took the money out of his wallet and gave him the wallet back. They were walking away with his phone, realised it was crap, walked back and also gave that back to him. The worst thing that has happened to anybody I know was in athlone where somebody out of the blue bit off half his nose and spat it out after leaving a club. I wud say athlone and limerick together are far more violent than dublin, even though Dublin eclipses them many times in size. I was robbed in Budapest after only 3 days there. Do not confuse outward appearance with actuality

Pet wrote:

But I believe the bad outweighs the good.

And I believe you are just a typical culchie dublin-basher

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 03-04-2005 02:26PM

look people, let's get this thread back on topic

Americans believe in leprachauns.

Big Ears · 03-04-2005 03:57PM

Mordeth wrote:

look people, let's get this thread back on topic

Americans believe in leprachauns.

and some Canadians too , but thats a little off topic .

Pet · 03-04-2005 03:58PM

a quick reply, as I seem to have left my brain in my arse pocket after watching Road Trip:

I'd completely disagree. But it depends on your definition of cultured. By your use of it I think a better term would be pretentious.

No, what I mean, is spending free time in ways that don't involve getting locked drunk and shiftin burds. Like going to the cinema, or the theatre, or art galleries, concerts, good-quality restaurants, operas, poetry readings..whatever. Something to flex the mind, rather than the liver.

Possibly, but that's only cos you farmers get so much more investment per capita than we do, (then complain that we get all the attention). A fairer system would yield a sparkling city I can guarantee you.

???

Maybe it's the brain-drain caused by watching pointless ****e films and talking to complete ****tards from the "music industry" yesterday, but that made no sense to me. Be a dear and run it by me again.

Now that's just laughable! A very naive statement. You see the "rabble" a lot more in dublin. I think you confuse violence merely with a lack of discretion. There's a loudness, an audacity "anee change for da bus mate?" among dublin scumbags but in general they're a lot more timid than our western counterparts.

Complete and total RUBBISH. I've seen so many people being harrassed on buses and on the LUAS, it boggles my mind. Getting certain Nitelinks will soon require insurance. Just do a search, there was a thread recently where people detailed all the violent scumbag-related experiences they had had on it. Scummers smoking down the backs of buses - would you get that anywhere else in Europe? Doubtful. And what about when people ask them to put it out? They certainly don't smile and oblige, that's for-****ing-sure.

And I believe you are just a typical culchie dublin-basher

Well I think you're a bloody jackeen,

Neither I or any of my friends have ever been mugged in Dublin.

and perhaps they avoid you because they know you're one of them!

ApeXaviour · 03-04-2005 05:44PM

Pet wrote:

No, what I mean, is spending free time in ways that don't involve getting locked drunk and shiftin burds.

Are you mixing us up with country life? From my admittedly limited view point, all I see in a country lifestyle is a bad silage smell, isolation, getting drunk (and driving home :eek: ), fightin, "shiftin" garels, suicidal boredom, wellies, complaining about dublin and backwardness.
In as far as what you said about the above being all dublin is about: for crying out loud ronan!!! Between the hours of midnight and 2.00am in the kind of clubs you seem to visiting maybe. That's it!

Pet wrote:

Like going to the cinema, or the theatre, or art galleries, concerts, good-quality restaurants, operas, poetry readings..whatever.

Erm... most of them are exactly what I meant by pretentious. Dublin has a rich and vibrant, increasingly cosmopolitan culture.. a stroll through stevens green, a taxi-driver with a sage-like story to tell, grafton st round christmas. Culture to me involves the people being what they are and richly so, not putting on an image of what they're not. Temple bar during the afternoon and evening being the pinnacle of that.

Pet wrote:

Maybe it's the brain-drain caused by watching pointless ****e films and talking to complete ****tards from the "music industry" yesterday, but that made no sense to me. Be a dear and run it by me again.

If I did I'd just be repeating myself. It seems pretty self-explanatory to me..

Pet wrote:

Complete and total RUBBISH. I've seen so many people being harrassed on buses and on the LUAS, it boggles my mind. Getting certain Nitelinks will soon require insurance. Just do a search, there was a thread recently where people detailed all the violent scumbag-related experiences they had had on it. Scummers smoking down the backs of buses - would you get that anywhere else in Europe? Doubtful. And what about when people ask them to put it out? They certainly don't smile and oblige, that's for-****ing-sure.

-Not rubbish
-I saw that thread. If anything it shows how shocking it is to us, since the actual violence is such rarity.
-The rest you describe is merely more example of the audacity I described earlier. They're there, they're obvious, they're beligerant, they're loud. This I do not deny. What I do deny and take offense to is you describing my city as violent. It simply isn't. You don't notice the scumbags so much in other cities as much, but good god I wouldn't mess with them. I wouldn't be too scared talking back to a dodgy dublin lad. It's a question of bark and bite.

Pet wrote:

and perhaps they avoid you because they know you're one of them!

lol hardly..

Listen man..
I sincerely suggest you come out from your cynical reverie, gather up a few of your friends on a nice day before the exams, get a nice roll and/or cup of coffee from one of our many new continentalesque (but with a taste of true dublin) café's. Go onto stephens green, sit in a populated area of grass near a tree, take a good look at the people and scenery around you. Soak it up while chatting with your mates. I guarantee your attitude will change should you be openminded enough..

03-04-2005 06:01PM

Pet, I'm a generally negative person and enjoy a good moan with the rest of them, but you can't honestly believe all that about Dublin? Have you ever lived anywhere else? I lived in Liverpool for 10 years and it's a ten times more violent, intimidating and just downright dangerous place to live. People getting their heads kicked in all the time for no reason, terrible drug problems, horrendous poverty. I lived in Belfast for the next 6 years, which pretty much has the same problems as Dublin but with a far more depressing atmosphere and all the political troubles, which are still going on despite what you might hear on RTE news.

I agree that Dublin is not the most cultured or interesting place, obviously it doesn't compare to Paris or Barcelona, but there are plenty of things to do other than get p*ssed every weekend. There are cinemas, art galleries, exhibitions, or you can get the DART and go to the beach or whatever.

I just think you're being very naive here. It's easy to say nowhere else has problems as bad as Dublin when you've only spent 2 weeks there. You don't really notice the bad side of anywhere until you've been there a few months. I bet you think Paris is a great city, which it is, but at night it's REALLY dangerous in many areas, I do not feel safe walking 2 metres alone. A friend's boyfriend got stabbed in the stomach in Marseille for refusing to hand over his mobile. I honestly don't think Dublin is the 'worst' place in Europe.

monument · 03-04-2005 08:35PM

DubGuy22 wrote:

Fat, Igonorant, Stupid, Hippocrits, with a government that took part in the most flawed, illegal, and nationally embarresing war campaign since history has been recorded.

Are you talking about Irish people there, because it sound like it.

ApeXaviour · 03-04-2005 08:46PM

Cos our government took part in a war..??

monument · 03-04-2005 09:32PM

Well if you count allowing troops, and illegal heald detainees to pass thought the country as helping one side out, then yes...

troops... (SBPOST)
http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2003/03/02/story609682335.asp

illegal heald detainees... (Village magazine)
http://www.statewatch.org/news/2004/oct/05sweden-us-abduction.htm

MissyKiki · 04-04-2005 05:17AM

PeadarofAodh wrote:

I was in Chicago 2 weeks ago and visited two large schools over there...and the amount of times I was asked why my English was so good :mad:

I can understand them asking depending which schools they were. Actually Chicago has some very good universities. However the inner city primary and secondary schools have some real problems.

MissyKiki · 04-04-2005 05:25AM

Pet wrote:

Oh, I'm not an American-hater, I've been there plenty of times and have had great experiences. For every stupid Bush-loving hick there's an intelligent, well-informed decent human being, and imho, the good outweighs the bad. There's a bit of hostility between "us" at the moment, but I think Bush is to blame, because I don't remember anti-Americanism being present a few years ago. And I feel sorry for you, and about 50% of your fellow Americans, who have to feel less-than-proud of their own country because of its actions and its figurehead.
Also, it doesn't bother me that Americans in America have a good, if somewhat unrealistic view of Ireland. It's just that - I actually feel bad, or ashamed, when they (or other tourists) come here and have their preconceptions shattered (sometimes violently).

Ok, since we are on the subject....How is America viewed by Europeans on the whole? Since there is an ocean between what happens here (politically) and the actions across the ocean (in the gulf and elsewhere) we get fed by the media that we are seen as the saviors of the world, sometimes. I don't believe it, but what do you think? Perhaps we are a bit disconnected from the consequences ogf the actions of our govt because there hasn't been an attack on American soil (pre-2001) from outsiders since 1941. Europeans have had war or warring groups right in their own back yards since time began, it seems. I guess many Americans are ethnocentric because of what we are fed through the media and many don't look any deeper.

MissyKiki · 04-04-2005 05:30AM

Mordeth wrote:

look people, let's get this thread back on topic

Americans believe in leprachauns.

I don't "believe" in them any more than I beileve in the magic sock fairy that magically removes socks from the clothes dryer. However, like fairy tales, tall tales, magical beasts, imps and the like are fun to talk about.

MissyKiki · 04-04-2005 05:35AM

Pet wrote:

Well I think you're a bloody jackeen,
!

Ok, now I may be a bit uneducated here, but humor me.....could you please define "Jackeen" and whatever he called you in the first place? I'm assuming they have a negative connotation, but what exactly?

MissyKiki · 04-04-2005 05:43AM

ApeXaviour wrote:

:-I saw that thread. If anything it shows how shocking it is to us, since the actual violence is such rarity.
-The rest you describe is merely more example of the audacity I described earlier. They're there, they're obvious, they're beligerant, they're loud. This I do not deny. What I do deny and take offense to is you describing my city as violent. It simply isn't. You don't notice the scumbags so much in other cities as much, but good god I wouldn't mess with them. I wouldn't be too scared talking back to a dodgy dublin lad. It's a question of bark and bite.

..

I must admit that the way you both describe Dublin makes it sound great. I live less than 5 minutes from the murder capitol of the US. We have knifings, drugs, abandond buildings, shootings, arson, gang activity, chains and bars on businesses and houses, corruption in govt. vandalism, homeless people, - no kidnappings of late - but generally lots of bad. Dublin sounds like a haven. I could handle a bunch of drunks and polite muggers

Hobbes · 04-04-2005 06:33AM

Anna971 wrote:

Ok, now I may be a bit uneducated here, but humor me.....could you please define "Jackeen" and whatever he called you in the first place? I'm assuming they have a negative connotation, but what exactly?

It means "Dubliner". Generally has negative connotations but good luck trying to find any Dubliner who might know.

Hobbes · 04-04-2005 06:37AM

Anna971 wrote:

Well, to clarify, they were really asking (I hope) if you know Liam Neeson because some poeple don't know the difference between a character and an actor. I only did amateur theater and I got the same thing....ugh!

Actually they were asking me if I knew the Boxer, which confused me more as I don't watch the sport. As for the knights of tir-na-nog the woman was referring to an American childrens program which was a sad attempt of the Power rangers set in Ireland (which I must know because I am Irish).

I've found it varies from state/town the level of stupidity (much like here). El Paso TX few people knew where Ireland was, Michigan (various spots) concept of rest of world for a lot of people was Canada.

But I lived in Boston, and never met anyone that ignorant of the world in Boston.

I was in a cafe for brekfast one time in Mount Pleasent Michigan and for a town that has little to no tourists right beside my table was some Irish guy telling two girls how he had to dodge snipers and tanks to get to work every morning in Dublin.

Hydroquinone · 04-04-2005 09:34AM

Anna971 wrote:

Ok, now I may be a bit uneducated here, but humor me.....could you please define "Jackeen" and whatever he called you in the first place? I'm assuming they have a negative connotation, but what exactly?

Th name Jackeen comes from a time when we wer under British rule and the most loyal royal area in Ireland was The Pale, the area round about Dublin.
Anyway, Queen Victoria came to Visit and was met by adoring crowds, waving the flag.
And the flag of the British Empire is the Union Jack, so the people from Dublin were derisively called Jackeens by the people outside Dublin, who thought the allegiance to the Crown was a load of rubbish.

Another thing from these times which you've probably heard of is such and such is "beyond the Pale"
Well, The Pale was a lawabiding place, paying attention to British rule and not agitating for independence, while outside the Pale was lawless and wild and not under control - beyond The Pale.

Sleepy · 04-04-2005 10:20AM

Anna971 wrote:

Ok, since we are on the subject....How is America viewed by Europeans on the whole? Since there is an ocean between what happens here (politically) and the actions across the ocean (in the gulf and elsewhere) we get fed by the media that we are seen as the saviors of the world, sometimes. I don't believe it, but what do you think? Perhaps we are a bit disconnected from the consequences ogf the actions of our govt because there hasn't been an attack on American soil (pre-2001) from outsiders since 1941. Europeans have had war or warring groups right in their own back yards since time began, it seems. I guess many Americans are ethnocentric because of what we are fed through the media and many don't look any deeper.

Lesson No 1. Europeans are a very diverse group. Different countries over here are not like different States in the US. Differences in language, culture, major religeons, liberalism (e.g. compare a country as sensible as The Netherlands with one as anally retentive as the UK or Ireland).

And to be honest, America tends to be looked at in a pretty poor light. Personally I must admit that when meeting an American I assume them to be stupid until they prove otherwise. When the majority of your country chooses an idiot to be commander-in-chief we'll tend to take him as representative of you as a nation. Harsh, maybe but difficult to dismiss.

Unpossible · 04-04-2005 11:09AM

"Oh my god! So does that mean you have an accent!!?"

Ive been asked this question by 2 people one was french/finnish, the other was dutch.
Americans have always told me they like my accent. I have a bunch of american friends over here (there isnt many native english speakers here), I find them to be intelligent. Although a few months ago there was a few exchange students from a republican area/state (I cant remember the name), it was funny seeing their reactions when they found out that Nestle isnt an american company.

Idiots exist everywhere

Hobbes · 04-04-2005 12:54PM

Sleepy wrote:

Lesson No 1. Europeans are a very diverse group. Different countries over here are not like different States in the US. Differences in language, culture, major religeons, liberalism (e.g. compare a country as sensible as The Netherlands with one as anally retentive as the UK or Ireland).

Actually the States can be compared quite a bit to Europe. Treat each state as a country. They share a common currency and language (in some cases) but each State has its own culture. A person from Boston is very different from a person from San Diego.

Sleepy · 04-04-2005 01:36PM

sure, but not quite as different as a Scotsman and an Italian, or an Irishman and a Greek.

MrPinK · 04-04-2005 02:10PM

Why not? America actually has a large number of Scots, Italians, Irish and Greeks, and many more ethnicities. You won't find another country as multicultural. I'd say they are as diverse as Europeans.

bean · 04-04-2005 02:23PM

MrPinK wrote:

Why not? America actually has a large number of Scots, Italians, Irish and Greeks, and many more ethnicities. You won't find another country as multicultural. I'd say they are as diverse as Europeans.

True enough, its just that only really seems to be the case in the cities near the coast, much of middle America is very different.
I have 2 very different experiences:
Tech Support to US users in Middle America some warm and genuine others thick and abnoxious
Then there is my fiance who is from NY, very open minded, honest and genuine (which i find refreshing)

MrPinK · 04-04-2005 02:37PM

bean wrote:

True enough, its just that only really seems to be the case in the cities near the coast, much of middle America is very different.

Which only adds to Hobbes' point. Amercian states can be radically different from each other, not unlike European countries.

騎手 · 04-04-2005 03:11PM

Why should americans know any more about Ireland than we do about somewhere like Burma?

ApeXaviour · 04-04-2005 03:16PM

Apart from the fact that Ireland is a western modernised country they shouldnt. But take somewhere like boliva, Turkey, madagascar. Who do you honestly think would be able to find them more often on a geological map of the world? Simple point, I'm not inferring anything else from it.

Abdiel · 04-04-2005 03:54PM

Remember seeing a video clip of an Australian news show a year or two ago - they were on the streets of America asking various people questions like:

What's a mosque ? - answer "A type of animal ?"
How many Eiffel towers in Paris ? -answer "10"
Where's the Berlin wall ? -answer "Israel ?"

All it really shows it that some Americans dont know much about what could be considered "General Knowledge" - but the lack of this is not limited to non-American questions, I am sure the same people asked to name the first 5 presidents of America would struggle also. I've been in a lot of trivia room on various IRC servers over the years and was often shocked at the lack of knowledge of their own country let alone what they know about the rest of the world. Some of them would be very knowledgable though, so the only conclusion from that is that there are ignorant and knowledgable folk quite possibly in equal measures - although I've encountered more of the previous type - the ones that make a big deal out of the fact that your Irish and the lovely accent you must have - proceeding to tell you how they're great grandmother was Irish and they'd always dreamed of visiting our little Emerald Isle.

To say all Americans are stupid is a little silly though. The writings of say Naom Chomsky (I'm assuming he's largely unheard of as most people I mention him to have never heard of him - although I've heard him dismissed as a crank by somebody I knew in the state-department a few years ago) show that some Americans are all too aware of their country's part in world affairs and also well aware of the world outside of the U.S.A.

What the Americans think of Ireland

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