Shoddy bus timetables.. In Irish!

Metrobest · 24-03-2005 11:26AM

I want to make another point. Dublin Bus seems to chop and change routes/times/languages at will; and customers are always the last to know. A simple idea which would probably cost less money would be to make changes twice yearly - in January and June - so that customers know exactly when to expect changes.

As arrangements currently stand, Dublin Bus seems to whimsically and randomly chop and change routes, announcing the diktats with matchbox-sized ads in the Irish Times.

With twice-yearly changes, it would be possible to produce a Dublin bus map for display in all the bus shelters. The map would two-sided: one side 'bus routes in general' with a 'YOU ARE HERE' spot, the other 'detailed local area map, including onward public transport connections.'

Money saved on unneccessary newspaper advertisements would easily pay for this idea, which would transform passengers' experience of the buses.

murphaph · 24-03-2005 12:07PM

Yeah, the 39 has been fcuked around with more times since the Blanch Centre opened. It'll be a bit better when the Ongar Distributor Road opens, assuming B.A.C run the 39 down there on the bus lanes their building into it. It should really continue on down the Snugborough Extension (South), which should be widened and Lana Bus added, and straight into Blanch Village (passing close enough to the Blanch Centre near KFC). A completely different service should serve the Hartstown/Huntstown 'loop', still via the centre but not doubling back on itself to get down Clonsilla Road, instead travelling straight out to the Snugborough Extension (South) and into the village. A third service should serve Ongar-Clonsilla Road using the distributor road. I know some people will have to walk further to a bus stop but bus stops on existing routes are already way too numerous and people should walk a little further to a better, less stop-start service. Currently the 39 is doing the job of at least 3 routes, the way it doubles back on itself is ridiculous. I don't entirely blame B.A.C. Apparently they have to jump through hoops to establish a new route (competition tenders and all that) so modifying an existing one is bound to be more commonplace.

Of course all this would be completely out the window if the DRP was in place cos nobody would take the 39 to town. It roughly parallels the Maynooth DART most of the way. The bus network would need a complete overhaul so buses currently serving D15 and Finglas areas would now run roughly north-south to feed into Clonsilla, Porterstown, Coolmine, Castleknock, Blanchardstown, Ashtown (may be relocated), Pelletstown and Broombridge instead of paralleling the line into town at a snails pace.

Metrobest · 24-03-2005 12:20PM

The realities of shoddy Irish planning mean that the 39 will always be needed. Coolmine, Clonsilla and Laurel Lodge stations are all hampered by poor access roads - any feeder bus serving these stations would get stuck in terrible traffic, made even worse when a train passes through!
The Blanchardtown SC area, Tyrellstown, Hospital area are all cut off from the rail line.
The M50 effectively severs much of the real Castleknock area from the station quaintly called 'Castleknock'
Closer to town, the Kinvara Avenue/Ashington area is cut off from two train stations by 6-foot brick walls, designed to protect middle class estates from their less pretty neighbours.

daymobrew · 24-03-2005 12:44PM

Metrobest wrote:

The map would two-sided: one side 'bus routes in general' with a 'YOU ARE HERE' spot, the other 'detailed local area map, including onward public transport connections.'

I keep meaning to make one of these for outside Coolmine train station to demo to Irish Rail what can be easily achieved. Would probably be a laminated A3 page with a local map, the nearby bus routes (39/236/237/37 etc) any maybe their timetables, contact info for Irish Rail when the station is closed (it closes at 20:12!!).

If I could get a large image with the train station in the middle I'd be sorted.

murphaph · 24-03-2005 12:48PM

Metrobest wrote:

The realities of shoddy Irish planning mean that the 39 will always be needed. Coolmine, Clonsilla and Laurel Lodge stations are all hampered by poor access roads - any feeder bus serving these stations would get stuck in terrible traffic, made even worse when a train passes through!

Re: Clonsilla Station. Check out the Ongar Distributor Road scheme. 4 lanes wide with 2 of those being dedicated bus lanes. Clonsilla level crossing is expected to actually close completely with all traffic being sent over the (already constructed) Porterstown bridge. Castleknock station has a rather large green space beside it which could easily accomodate a bus interchange. The roads leading to the station from the Laurel Lodge side have bus lanes and plenty of room to widen them. That is a distinct advantge of many suburban roads-they're nice and wide and can be modified to allow bus priority. That is simply impossible in the city centre's narrow streets.

Metrobest wrote:

The Blanchardtown SC area, Tyrellstown, Hospital area are all cut off from the rail line.

Cut off? by what? They are all on wide north-south roads that either (in the case of Blanchardstown Rd. south) has bus lanes or could easily be modified to provide them.The only issue might be the hospital area, which is 10 mins walk to Castleknock Station, but a bus could be provided for the ultra-lazy.

Metrobest wrote:

The M50 effectively severs much of the real Castleknock area from the station quaintly called 'Castleknock'

39 doesn't serve Castleknock. Incidentally, IE wish to build a new station beside Little Chef. It would be near the original Blanchardstown Station, long since demolished during the M50 construction. This station will serve the Auburn Ave. areas of Castleknock as well as the new (massive) apartments to be built between it an Dunsink.

Metrobest wrote:

Closer to town, the Kinvara Avenue/Ashington area is cut off from two train stations by 6-foot brick walls, designed to protect middle class estates from their less pretty neighbours.

Eh? Knock holes in the walls.

See, it's not that difficult with a bit of imagination

Metrobest · 24-03-2005 01:02PM

daymobrew wrote:

I keep meaning to make one of these for outside Coolmine train station to demo to Irish Rail what can be easily achieved. Would probably be a laminated A3 page with a local map, the nearby bus routes (39/236/237/37 etc) any maybe their timetables, contact info for Irish Rail when the station is closed (it closes at 20:12!!).

If I could get a large image with the train station in the middle I'd be sorted.

That's a great idea. I will come to look at it if you do it. You could send the map to Irish Rail and shame them into producing one for every suburban rail station. The map would need to be A2-sized or, better still, A1, if you want it to look professional.

P11 Comms · 27-03-2005 11:14PM

Press Release - Public Transport Map/Users Guide for the Greater Dublin Region - The Time Has Come.

Date: 27 March, 2005

With record numbers of people in Dublin City, West Dublin, Fingal, Meath, Kildare and North Wicklow using public transport to commute to and from work, Platform11 is calling on Minister Cullen along with the Department of Transport to issue a single, updated and user-friendly public transport map for DART, Suburban Rail, Luas and Major Bus Services within the Greater Dublin Region.

For all the talk of integrated transport by various Government agencies in recent years, we have yet to see the publication of an Integrated Public Transport Map for Greater Dublin similar in graphical style and layout to the London Underground�s schematic map.

The RPA recently introduced a Smart Card system for Luas and Morton bus services at great expense to the taxpayer and while Platform11 welcomes this initiative, something as basic and relatively inexpensive as an integrated proper public transport map for the Greater Dublin Region has been completely overlooked.

Surely the time has come for a public transport users map which could be distributed free of charge at certain transport points, as well as tourists offices/hotels etc - other cities such as Boston, Toronto and Berlin already provide integrated public transport maps.

In recent years, the DoT has produced a plethora of expensive publications, but none of them have been of any use to the ordinary public transport user or visiting tourist. Dublin and its commuting hinterland is well behind the rest of Europe and most major North American cities when it comes to providing a comprehensive and user-friendly public transport map/users guide.

The map should be a colour coded, fold-out document, no larger than A3 size when fully opened, outlining all rail, Luas and major bus services (DB, BE and Independents were relevant) along with interchange points between services clearly identified from the City Centre out towards Drogheda, Navan, Dublin Airport, Kildare and Arklow. The map should be mounted and displayed at all train, tram and bus stations within the Greater Dublin Region and be included in all tourist publications and guides.

ENDS

antoinolachtnai · 29-03-2005 12:31AM

Obviously, I think having a single transport map for Dublin is a great idea. I don't mean to be difficult, but did the folks at P11 actually come up with this idea on their own, or did they pick it up from some other source? (Not that there's anything wrong with picking up an idea and running it, but a little bit of credit would be no harm.)

One slight proviso though; it would be difficult to fit all the information you are talking to onto an A3 map. It all depends on how much detail you go into with the bus map. It is obviously also important to make signposting on the streets and on the actual stops more consistent and prominent.

P11 Comms · 30-03-2005 08:21AM

antoinolachtnai wrote:

Obviously, I think having a single transport map for Dublin is a great idea. I don't mean to be difficult, but did the folks at P11 actually come up with this idea on their own, or did they pick it up from some other source? (Not that there's anything wrong with picking up an idea and running it, but a little bit of credit would be no harm.)

We have been thinking about it for a long time. It has been mentioned here and our own board, but the problem is that Cullen and the people who can actually produce the thing don't read this or any other message board so you have to issue a press release and send him a letter to get it done. If anyone deserve credit for the idea it is London Transport in the 1930's.

antoinolachtnai wrote:

One slight proviso though; it would be difficult to fit all the information you are talking to onto an A3 map. It all depends on how much detail you go into with the bus map. It is obviously also important to make signposting on the streets and on the actual stops more consistent and prominent.

It's up to the design team the DoT hires to create the map, once we get a decent map we are on the right track and improvements and modifactions can be made over time. Looking a bunch of maps from other cities we came up with A3 as perhaps the best size. The one for Paris which is A3 and you can fit an unbelivable amount in and it's just the right size to open on a bus, DART or Luas seat without infringing on the other people's personal space.

The scale should be skewed to allow the maximum space devoted to the central area were the highest concentration of stations and stops are located with the fringes of the system just short lines to the outer destinations.

As for buses, the only routes that should be really included should be ones serving major locations off the rail and tram network such as Swords, Airport, Liffey Valley, UCD, Rathfarnham, Navan, Mulhuddart etc.

But it is a joke that we have no unified transport map for Dublin while polticians are falling over themselves to mouth "integrated transport" whenever a microphone is place in front of them. The most basic element of integrated public transport - a decent map would be nice. Half the questions to this board is "how do I get from here to there" when a schematic map of Dublin's transport would solve that problem. A 'no brainer' really and yet the DoT have not even thought of it. Only in Ireland...etc.

Shoddy bus timetables.. In Irish!

Comments