What's the use?

Doc · 19-05-2001 12:53AM

Originally posted by Dead{o}Santa:

Originally posted by jArgHA:
...is out of respect for our history and heritage
If that's the only reason to keep it, it's a pretty weak one. Let the past be the past.

This is not a weak reason to keep it. Our history and heritage makes us who we are today. Why do you think so many Americans come to Ireland to look up their ancestors? Our couture is very unique as we have kept our traditional music and our language and the lather is by far the strongest indicator of our difference to every other culture in the world. You would be amazed just how many people think we are still a part of the UK not to mention the vast amount of people in the world who don’t know we even have our own language. I believe the more difference and diversity we have from other cultures the better. I would dearly have loved to be able to post this in Irish but unfortunately I cant. I can speak a lot of Irish (though not as much as I would like) but I do speak little bits to English people (they get very impressed by this ) but fell ashamed when they ask how do you say this in Irish and I cant tell them . Irish should stay compulsory.

Dun · 19-05-2001 08:40PM

I did Irish at school, as did everyone else that went through the Irish educational system. I hated every minute of it. I hated that it was forced upon me, and that it had no 'use'. On the other hand I loved French and Spanish, and got an A2 in both of those, and managing to just get a C3 (hons) in Irish.
It wasn't long after I left school that I began to value having learned the language. I wished that I'd applied myself more and done a lot better, which I know I could have.
I think I would be devastated if I had been allowed to rob myself of this important piece of my heritage at an age where the only thing that seems important is what's going on in Buffy. I know loads of other people that feel the same way.
I feel though that the teaching of Irish is misguided in schools. No literature should be included in any part of the Irish syllabus until the class has a proficient knowledge of the Irish language. This may be seen by some as also denying some aspects of Irish culture, but there's much not point in concentrating on literature when the students are depending on the translation given by the teacher because their Irish is not good enough to read the particular pieces.

po0k · 20-05-2001 01:51AM

Originally posted by Dead{o}Santa:

The Scottish used to speak gaelic (or a form of), yet to the best of my knowledge it isn't being forced on Scottish school students.

Sure, a lot of you are glad you studied it, but many of us feel raped after all the years forced to study it against our will.
A free Ireland indeed.

).]

Eg-Fúcking-Zactly.
it USED be spoken by the scots. It wasn't compulsory, so they found no need.
Why would you want to learn a foreign language before youwould learn your own?
It is outlandish like a malfunction.
The method of teaching Irish in schools is ar$e-wys.
Thank christ I have an Irish teacher who concentrated on the Grammer throughout the Juniour cert.
I by no-means claim to have a proficiency in it, and I wish to christ I'd gone to the Gealtacht one summer at least.
The literature is misguided. The teaching methods are dochreidte.
Why do we not have an English oral?
If we are taught Irish Culture as part of the Irish cirriculum, and similarly with french, why do we not teach our kids about British culture in the English class?
The ability to slagg some-one off in another language is encouraging, but more needs to be done, in positive ways to encourage the language. Normalise it. The grants scheme is a load of farce. Giving money to people cos they speak a particular language is not a democratic ethic. They should be given money because they are keeping our heritage (in the way of crafts and skills) alive for our children's and our own education and to do this successfully they must build houses in locations where the nearest shop might be 10 miles away, or the nearest form of healthcare could be a fgew hours away.
To say that the majority of people hate the IRish language is a falasy m.s. (mar shampla) Tá tú ag caint trí do hón. Any education is good. Why do you not complain that Maths is compulsory? I mean how many people use the series methods taught in Ordinary level? Or English, will you ever really recite any of the more obscure poems you had to learn? The two languages should be brought to the same level, so many other european and world countries have managed this. Why can't we?
Seán Ó Cholmáin

Bard · 21-05-2001 11:21AM

Originally posted by [FCA]SyxPak:

To say that the majority of people hate the IRish language is a falasy m.s. (mar shampla) Tá tú ag caint trí do hón. Any education is good. Why do you not complain that Maths is compulsory? I mean how many people use the series methods taught in Ordinary level? Or English, will you ever really recite any of the more obscure poems you had to learn? The two languages should be brought to the same level, so many other european and world countries have managed this. Why can't we?
Seán Ó Cholmáin

Well said SyxPak... Here here!

Bard

First motorbike in the bible ???? - a Triumph! - 'And yea verily did Moses strike down the ammmanites, - and all the land did hear the roar of his triumph !!!'

Celt · 22-05-2001 01:01AM

How does learning gaeilge give us a sense of irishness and our heritage?
Please elaborate.
Maths is used in many professions and its there to keep your options open.
Gaeilge is of no use at all.

Lads,
This is probably gonna sound yer everyday yah-da yah-da but IMO its the truth. The reason why we attempt to keep up the tradition of speaking Irish (albeit in a small way) is out of respect for our history and heritage. We'd be a pack of sad ass sellout ba$terds if we forgot all our Irish roots and would have lost our own identity as a nation.

We dont attempt to keep up the tradition of speaking irish, we are forced to.

I really have to agree. Granted, I enjoy the subject and went to an all-Irish secondary school by choice, and now having left school two years still keep it up, but even for those who hate the subject, it's part of who we are and where we came from. I never enjoyed history as a subject in school and that's forced upon us, but I still recognised the fact that all that has gone before was important to the way things are now, not just here in Ireland but around the world. Irish is in us all and it's imperative that we don't lose it.

What exactly does speaking irish have to do with irish roots? nothing?

I think we should keep our language because it is our herritage and well it's ours and it makes us different. Who wants to be the same as everyone else?

more of the "its our heritage" spiel. It doesnt make most people different, since most peopel dont use it or speak it.

Personally i dont like the langauge, but its probably bett that its kept going, it gives you a sense of being Irish.

It doesnt give me a sense of being irish...

i think it takes a certain amount of experience to appreciate the language and the culture it brings with it

What culture and where?

This is not a weak reason to keep it. Our history and heritage makes us who we are today. Why do you think so many Americans come to Ireland to look up their ancestors? Our couture is very unique as we have kept our traditional music and our language and the lather is by far the strongest indicator of our difference to every other culture in the world.

Our heritage does not make or mold us.
Our culture is unique as only 1% use our national language much?
Many other cultures still have their "traditional" language and music.

androphobic · 22-05-2001 11:49PM

If we didn't have Irish, people would probably be complaining that we don't have a language of our own.

I do believe that it's part of our culture. Maybe you can't see that if you live in a city but down in the bogs (and I don't live in a Gaeltacht) the Irish culture is more evident.
(PS not suggesting that city folk don't have some sort of culture.. just that it may be more difficult).

I'm proud to be able to speak Irish and think it's a shame so many people seem to detest it.
Though whether they detest it or not is probably another issue altogether.. a lot of young people argue against it simply because they have to learn it in school. Don't like it.. not good at it.. let's rebel and complain about it being obligatory.

At the end of the day, it's our language. Whether you use it when you're finished school or not is a personal decision, but at least you'll be able to hold a conversation in it (or should be).
If the "it's no use to us" argument is going to be applied, that argument could be applied with many subjects.. for instance you may choose to study geography for your LC but never use it again.
So what? It's knowledge and all such knowledge is useful.

In years to come, when your kids ask you to help them with their Irish homework, you can smile and say "Cad é an fadhb?"

Celt · 23-05-2001 12:13AM

Hopefully they wont be having irish homework.
1) Geography can be used in quite a few professions.
2) Irish can only be used in one afaik, teaching.
Now, i do not see how irish can be part of our culture when it is not used/spoken by the vast majority of us.
And, irish culture is what we make it.

Bard · 23-05-2001 12:19AM

Enough arguing already. Some believe it should stay, while some believe it shouldn't. Some believe it's an important part of our heritage and culture which moulds and defines us as a nation while some believe that that's a load of twaddle.

I'm not going to express a preference. I am, however, going to lock the thread if you guys keep arguing in an "I'm right, you're wrong, NYAH!" fashion. Both sides of the argument have their merits and their failings.

Bard

First motorbike in the bible ???? - a Triumph! - 'And yea verily did Moses strike down the ammmanites, - and all the land did hear the roar of his triumph !!!'

the fnj · 23-05-2001 01:43PM

I used it all the time when I'm on holidays. Most recently Amsterdam. When a bum comes up to you and says "have you any change buddy" the reply of Ni Higim (I know thats spelt wrong). Can be very funny. One guy asked me for change in English, Dutch, german, French and Spainish then gave up not knowing what the hell my repeated chants of Pob Mo Hoin meant.

Gwan irish it saves me from hobo's

Shiminay · 23-05-2001 02:03PM

I don't visit this forum very often, but hee's what I have to say on this arguement...

Irish is a compulsary language, fair enough. I think we're all in agreement that the way it's taught is not good and as a result, most people don't like the language because they have to learn it.

I think it's a good language - it sounds nice, it's (relativly) easier to learn than some (believe it or not, but English is probably the hardest to learn). I do believe there should be more of an emphasis on learning to Speak the language than learning poetry and analysing it etc (in the current way it's being taught). It'd love to be able to speak the language well - I don't mind about writing it down and stuff - I'll always have English for that, but it'd be nice to start a conversation in a place as Gaeilge and see how many other Irish people are there (eg in a foreign country) - it's always fun to out and out abuse people in Irish with a smile on your face so they think you're saying something nice.

Of course, this is a bit of a silly notion, so I'll make my point and be done with it!

I started learning French in secondary school. I was much better at French than Irish by the time my LC came 'round. I scored a D2 Higher in French and a D3 Ordinary in Irish.

Why did I do better in a language that I had 8 years less learning experience?
Here are some reasons...
1) It was my choice to do French
2) The emphasis was placed on learning practical applications of the language - writting letters, learning to read ads, speaking the language and learning how to listen to it. This was done in Irish too, but not to the extent it is in French.
3) At age 12, I felt more capible of learning a language. At age 4, no one can really decide they're gonna learn a language and be expected to know the advanced structures by the time they're 12 (when they're not speaking/interacting with it all the time).

So, what's my solution?

Keep it compulsary - I really do think we should learn it (if I have children, I'd hope they'd learn it). Change what's being taught. Focus on speaking the language in primary school (with *some* grammar and writing). Bring the advanced grammar in at secondary school level and focus on that and the spoken word up to Junior Cert level. At Leaving Cert, make it optional. Those who are good at languages will snap it up as it'll mean easy money in their points race for college. Those who are bad at langages can focus on what they're good at and everyone's a winner. Let this optional Leaving Cert course look at poetry and stories in the way the JC and LC courses currently do.

Sorry for the long post.

All the best!
Dav
@B^)
We were all set for a game of Ice Hockey when Frank Williams says "Sorry lads, I've forgotten my skates!"
[honey i] violated [the kids]
Tribes 2 Goodness
The Dawn of the Beefy King approaches...

androphobic · 23-05-2001 08:32PM

Originally posted by WhiteLancer:
2) Irish can only be used in one afaik, teaching.

It isn't used in many professions but it is necessary for TnaG, RnaG, etc.. there's heaps of Irish publication - not only school ones like Dreimire but the Irish newspaper Foinse is out every Sunday, for eg.

Irish graduates are also needed to translate legislative documents and as you know most official and some other publications are in both languages.

Originally posted by WhiteLancer:

Now, i do not see how irish can be part of our culture when it is not used/spoken by the vast majority of us.
And, irish culture is what we make it.

Irish is part of our culture. It is the language of many of our ancestors and is still available to us. No matter how much you choose to shun it, it's not going to die in the near future.
Irish culture is what we make it, and there are people who make the Irish language a part of their culture and will continue to do so.

Kharn.. good suggestions on the written/oral aspects etc, though I still reckon it should be kept to LC.

[This message has been edited by androphobic (edited 23-05-2001).]

amp · 24-05-2001 07:24PM

Well, most of you won't have gone through the disturbing world of Peig, or had an alcholic Irish teacher. I did and at the time I couldn't the point of Irish either.
Especially when there so much other stuff to do like pull girls bra-straps.

But since I left school I find myself appreciating the language more and more. Even just the way it sounds. And that's not just because TG4's weather girl is a honey.

Lunacy Abounds! GLminesweeper RO><ORS!
art is everything and of course nothing and possibly also a sausage

Shiminay · 25-05-2001 02:33PM

Originally posted by amp:
Well, most of you won't have gone through the disturbing world of Peig, or had an alcholic Irish teacher. I did and at the time I couldn't the point of Irish either.
Especially when there so much other stuff to do like pull girls bra-straps.

But since I left school I find myself appreciating the language more and more. Even just the way it sounds. And that's not just because TG4's weather girl is a honey.

I agree with your sentiments exactly!!!

I hope that c*nt Peig Sayers is buring in hell and suffering more than anyone.
Her:"Cóin is a cóin is a cóin arís"
Lucifer:"STFU Peig you dumb biatch *slap*"

All the best!
Dav
@B^)
We were all set for a game of Ice Hockey when Frank Williams says "Sorry lads, I've forgotten my skates!"
[honey i] violated [the kids]
Tribes 2 Goodness
The Dawn of the Beefy King approaches...

Bard · 25-05-2001 02:45PM

Originally posted by amp:
Well, most of you won't have gone through the disturbing world of Peig, or had an alcholic Irish teacher.

Had the alcoholic teacher but refused after a while to do Peig Sayers (as did all our honours Irish class - yep! all 3 of them!) - instead we did "Tóraíocht Diarmud agus Gráinne" and bloody hell is it a fun book- warriors, battles, people being sliced in two from head to groin by sword, love, passion,... it's all there!

Bard

First motorbike in the bible ???? - a Triumph! - 'And yea verily did Moses strike down the ammmanites, - and all the land did hear the roar of his triumph !!!'

SantaHoe · 26-05-2001 04:06AM

If we didn't have Irish, people would probably be complaining that we don't have a language of our own.

Honestly now, do you think that's something many people worry about? (US? Australia?)

I took Geography for the LC because I found it interesting, learning how the earth works is (IMO) of more value than making a half-àssed attempt at learning/teaching a dead language.

I know it's part of our history, and having Irish people speak it enriches our national identity, but it's like keeping your great grand-fathers broken pocket-watch, and making your children polish it every day for many years, and in turn making their children polish it.
I personally don't feel the need (nor want) to speak Irish, and I'm pretty sure I could last a few years without speaking another word of it.

The point has been made about subjects like maths being compulsory - I think it's pretty obvious what careers are available to those with a strong grounding in math.
Yet career opportunities which arise out of a fluency in Irish are (as I see it) few and far between.
I wholeheartedly question the educational value of Irish.

PS. Bard, if you're getting sick of the back-and-forth'ers in this thread, at least let this thread live out it's days on humanities, where it can be properly dissected.

Bard · 26-05-2001 05:55PM

Originally posted by Dead{o}Santa:

PS. Bard, if you're getting sick of the back-and-forth'ers in this thread, at least let this thread live out it's days on humanities, where it can be properly dissected.



It's fine here, thanks.
Bard
First motorbike in the bible ???? - a Triumph! - 'And yea verily did Moses strike down the ammmanites, - and all the land did hear the roar of his triumph !!!'

androphobic · 26-05-2001 10:16PM

Originally posted by Dead{o}Santa:

Honestly now, do you think that's something many people worry about? (US? Australia?)

America is a multicultural society. By comparison, Ireland is most certainly not. They can't be compared - America didn't ever have a language like Ireland had/has.

Originally posted by Dead{o}Santa:

learning how the earth works is (IMO) of more value than making a half-àssed attempt at learning/teaching a dead language.

Whether Irish is dead or not is a personal choice by everyone. Yes, it is not spoken by many, but it is not "dead" for everyone.
If you chose to make "a half-assed attempt" at learning Irish, that was your decision. If you really hated it so much, then I doubt it was enjoyable.. but that was, as I said, your decision.

Originally posted by Dead{o}Santa:
The point has been made about subjects like maths being compulsory - I think it's pretty obvious what careers are available to those with a strong grounding in math.

I am not suggesting that Maths should not be compulsory at LC level. However, look at the LC Hons Maths course: sequences and series, differentiation, co-ordinate geometry, probability.. there are topics taught which are not necessary unless you intend to use Maths to a great extent at third level.
For instance, if you choose to do an Arts degree, as many thousands of students do, then it is unlikely you will need Maths. The same goes for foreign languages.

However, at least after six years in school, you have a strong mathematical ability, even if you'll never find the cartesian equation of a circle again.
Similarly, you will be able to speak Irish.

My basic point is that all education and knowledge is worth something. To you, Irish may seem useless.. to someone else another subject may seem useless - but at the end of the day you are (or should be) able to speak Irish. In my opinion, that is something to be proud of.

[P.S. Peig might be bad.. but try reading the Donegal Irish of "Caisleain Oir" after learning Connacht Irish for 14 years..

]

Stephen · 26-05-2001 11:16PM

Maths still has a hell of a lot more practical appliances in life than Irish does. I know arts courses etc won't need maths, but good maths skills will be a boon to anyone doing engineering, physics or IT-related courses (and others) in college and after.
Irish is useless for the vast majority.

- Munch

recordset · 27-05-2001 01:57AM

If practicality is going to be the measure against which subject matter is deemed worthy of spending an educational system's money on, and thus students' time and energy on, then there needs to be radical changes to the status quo.

Practical: learning how to maintain your boss's favor while turning down extra drudge work.

Impractical: being able to knowledgably discuss every esoteric aspect of all of Joyce's works.

Obviously, I am defining practical and impractical as they relate to the furtherance of an individual's quest for money...which is what "practicality in the real world" is all about, isn't it?

Hell, marvelling at sunsets is impractical.

Exercising so you will be able to tote heavier packages on the job is practical.

I, for one, am all for impracticality. Learning a different language, or learning ANYTHING for that matter, only betters your personality, broadens your horizens (if not your pocketbook) and makes you a more interesting and charming person. However, anytime someone is "compulsed" into doing something they do not enjoy (or are unable to see the benefit of), they will rationalize their feelings...both to themselves and others.

SantaHoe · 27-05-2001 05:06AM

America is a multicultural society. By comparison, Ireland is most certainly not.

Do you live in a sealed box in a warehouse somewhere?
We may not yet be at the same level as somewhere like New York, but give it a few more years.

I'm not even going to bother responding to the rest of your flame-ridden argument Andro, go read this thread in its entirety before posting.

I've yet to see a single logical argument put forth as to why we should be forced to learn Irish.
All support seems to be based around nostalgia, vague patriotism, and the ever predictable (and quite frankly weak) 'well then why do we learn this?' argument.
The Irish language is fine by me, and to a large extent I'm proud of it, let those who have an interest in it learn it... I just think it's unfair that those who don't want to learn it are forced to.

I suppose this is just one of the problems with our one-size-fits-all education system.

Bard · 27-05-2001 05:07PM

Originally posted by androphobic:
America is a multicultural society. By comparison, Ireland is most certainly not.

Utter crap. Pull your head out of the sand.

It may not be as prevalent or obvious in more rural areas of the country but parts of Dublin are about as multicultural as it is possible to get and it's only on the increase.

That's got nothing to do with the Irish among us retaining the use of our own language.

Bard

First motorbike in the bible ???? - a Triumph! - 'And yea verily did Moses strike down the ammmanites, - and all the land did hear the roar of his triumph !!!'

androphobic · 27-05-2001 11:15PM

By comparison. One of you said give it a few years or something along those lines, and I agree that Ireland is growing in terms of culture as it is getting more and more integrated.

I don't think I'm really getting anywhere here.. I think I'll let someone else fight the Irish corner for the moment. G'luck.

Volvagia · 28-05-2001 09:57PM

There should be a new approach to teaching irish in schools!! Or even just in primary school. It shouldn't be beaten into us. We should learn to love and a respect it! I begining to love it now but thats only because oof my teacher and not the way irish is supposed to be thought.
So change things for the better now rather then later!

How appropriate you fight like a Cow!!

Bard · 29-05-2001 10:43PM

Originally posted by Volvagia:

How appropriate you fight like a Cow!!

I feel mildly insulted.

You still fight like a dairy farmer.

Okay okay... off topic, I know...

rahh rahh rahh - keep Irish in the leaving cert ... rahh rahh...

Bard

First motorbike in the bible ???? - a Triumph! - 'And yea verily did Moses strike down the ammmanites, - and all the land did hear the roar of his triumph !!!'

nesf · 31-05-2001 11:02AM

Originally posted by androphobic:
I am not suggesting that Maths should not be compulsory at LC level. However, look at the LC Hons Maths course: sequences and series, differentiation, co-ordinate geometry, probability.. there are topics taught which are not necessary unless you intend to use Maths to a great extent at third level.
For instance, if you choose to do an Arts degree, as many thousands of students do, then it is unlikely you will need Maths. The same goes for foreign languages.

I'm studying maths as a subject in college, so I'm terribly biased.

Am, for one thing any subject at hons level is going to be more intensive, in maths this means more abstract.

Secondly you can do maths in an arts degree, so pls don't throw that one about, i've a friend doing his PhD in maths who did his BA in Maths and Irish, relevance is beautiful huh?

Irish, is a beautiful language, but the manner in which it is taught in schools is appalling at times. I had the misfortune of missing nearly all of my first 3 years of primary school due to illness, I had to learn/teach myself at home. I always loved maths, but Irish never appealled to me, being that young, so I am left in the not too nice position of having little or no basic irish, but due to the leaving cert i can critisise poetry and literature.

I think that no subject should be compulsory after the Junior Cert, a student is under enough pressure without having any subject, regardless of it's relevence being thrust upon them.

Neil3030 · 31-05-2001 11:46AM

I can't understand people's hatred of the Irish language, apart from the fact that they are thick as planks and couldn't be arsed doing a bit of study. They fact of the matter is, that we were forced from speaking our own language, in our own country during the time of the penal laws by the english and now since we are a free state, the language is more less dead. Why not ban english from the leaving cert? If you are going to give up on the native language of this country purely because you wont get high points in your leaving because you are trash at it then you are in my opinion a sellout. Imagine the French or the Germans having a discussion on whether or not to keep their national languge as part of their exams? We seem to be the only country on the planet who dont want to speak or learn their native language.

People from around the world dont see Ireland as a country in our own right. They see us as Brittish with a funny accent. No distiction or difference between us and our neighbours? Why is this? When i go to Lansdowne road to see Ireland play, i dont see a union jack flying high above the south terrece. I see a tri-colour. I'm proud to see a tri-colour. AND i'm proud of this country and every heritage history and custom that comes with it.

I'm proud of our language.
Why?
Because it is OUR language.

--:(:(:(:(-

:)---:)-:(

-:)--:)

:(:(

--:)-:)

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Celt · 31-05-2001 06:41PM

Originally posted by Neil3030:
I can't understand people's hatred of the Irish language, apart from the fact that they are thick as planks and couldn't be arsed doing a bit of study. They fact of the matter is, that we were forced from speaking our own language, in our own country during the time of the penal laws by the english and now since we are a free state, the language is more less dead. Why not ban english from the leaving cert? If you are going to give up on the native language of this country purely because you wont get high points in your leaving because you are trash at it then you are in my opinion a sellout. Imagine the French or the Germans having a discussion on whether or not to keep their national languge as part of their exams? We seem to be the only country on the planet who dont want to speak or learn their native language.

People from around the world dont see Ireland as a country in our own right. They see us as Brittish with a funny accent. No distiction or difference between us and our neighbours? Why is this? When i go to Lansdowne road to see Ireland play, i dont see a union jack flying high above the south terrece. I see a tri-colour. I'm proud to see a tri-colour. AND i'm proud of this country and every heritage history and custom that comes with it.

I'm proud of our language.
Why?
Because it is OUR language.

That post is insanely funny because it is one of the most stupid real posts i have seen in a long time

nice one

Winning Hand · 31-05-2001 07:45PM

IMPEACH PEIG

Btw andro, im sure the native americans would love to hear you say they never had their own language

SantaHoe · 01-06-2001 01:03AM

Originally posted by Neil3030:
I can't understand people's hatred of the Irish language, apart from the fact that they are thick as planks and couldn't be arsed doing a bit of study.

Well if you can't at least understand it, maybe you're the one who's 'thick as planks'.

Why not ban english from the leaving cert?

Because English is:
(A) The primary language of most Irish people.
(B) Spoken by more of the worlds population than Irish is.

If you are going to give up on the native language of this country purely because you wont get high points in your leaving because you are trash at it then you are in my opinion a sellout.

If you are going to hang on to the language just because the English 'took it', then you're exactly what's wrong with this country.
Let it go, quit living in the past and look to the future.
What's the point of teaching the language if the vast majority of people forget every word of it, and continue to speak English?

We seem to be the only country on the planet who dont want to speak or learn their native language.

Not really.

People from around the world dont see Ireland as a country in our own right. They see us as Brittish with a funny accent. No distiction or difference between us and our neighbours? Why is this?

Ignorance?
It happens with a lot of countries, I'm sure Canadians get pìssed off when you mistake them for Americans, but TBH, I'm not that bothered.

Doc · 01-06-2001 10:27AM

Dead{o}Santa you realy seem to me not to care at all that you are Irish. It seems as though you would be just as happy being totaly under EU rule or still governed by England.

"It happens with a lot of countries, I'm sure Canadians get pìssed off when you mistake them for Americans, but TBH, I'm not that bothered."

You dont see the need to learn Irish and you dont mind people calling you Brittish.

I think a lot of peoples oppinions would change if the lived abroude for a couple of years.

What's the use?

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