have you noticed?

Dr. Loon · 27-01-2005 04:59PM

spunkymunky wrote:

Ultimately the job of the drummer is keep the beat and if he can do that hes a good drummer.

You wouldn't believe how strongly I disagree with this statement. This is why there are so many crap drummers around. They think if they can just keep the beat they're grand. I don't think so. A drummer should be considered a musician the same as anyone else in a band.

Maybe 80% is a bit harsh, but off the top of my head in all the gigs I've played and seen in the last 5 years I can only think of about 5 really good drummers I've seen. Others were - as you say - just keeping the beat.

spunkymunky · 27-01-2005 05:17PM

I see what your saying but did the drummers just keeping the beat take away from the songs? I have seen drummers doing just that and thought (being a drummer myself) you could do more but it doesnt sound all that bad. But seeing so many bands you must have also seen the exact opposite, a drummer doing way to much. It is a fine balance and really depends on a persons taste and opinion. For yourself you seem to have a very high standard to meet but to others this standard might not be so high.
Technique with musicality is important but to what degree in the irish pubs and club music scene.
As robbie said the money is in covers and tbh you dont need much to copy what people want to hear

Dr. Loon · 27-01-2005 05:23PM

Aye very true. All I mean is most drummers I've seen are very un-remarkeable, they're just work horses. It doesn't necessarily mean the band are bad. Take U2 as an example. Larry Mullen to me is a very un-remarkeable drummer.

I've seen drummers do too little, I've seen drummers do way too much, and you're spot on. It's a fine balance that's required. All in all though, I think a good drummer requires natural rhythm. I don't think rhythm can be taught.

spunkymunky · 27-01-2005 05:30PM

Agree with you on that one. Natural rhythm (think i have it, but still use a metronome to be sure). I cringe at my brother trying. Not an ounze of rhythm poor little bugga!!!

Shrimp · 27-01-2005 05:38PM

I'd have to disagree with you, I think that there's just as many Bassists/Drummers as there are other musicians.. all a matter of searching for them. I know 4 Bassists and 3 Drummers.. Also, the question in the poll isn't really too fare, your asking a question that either way you'll have Recognise that there aren't many bassists/drummers.

Like the type of questions you'd say to someone when you were in 4th class trying to 'slag' them: "Have you told your mom your gay?"

I mean, If you say no.. your screwed or if you say yeah.. your screwed..

cr · 27-01-2005 06:25PM

yes there are alot more guitarists then drummers/bass players, the thing is that about 80/90% of them are ****, because they teach themselves with no previous musical understanding or experience! im not saying that they shouldnt teach themselves but if your gonna learn something learn it properly, 7/10 guiatarists wouldnt know what to do if a string broke in the middle of a song! and im not saying that im one of the 10 or 20% of good guitarists because i would never call myself good as I can always be better! if some one else considers me to be good then its there opinion but i will always be a critic of own playing!

Shrimp · 28-01-2005 04:53PM

And these fact were researched?

80/90% of them are ****??

7/10 guiatarists wouldnt know??

10 or 20% of good??

I mean, seems like your pulling them out of your ass tbh..

Nidge · 28-01-2005 06:42PM

where to start....i know 3 bassists and 6 drummers...so there! As i saida already i don't think there is a distinct lack of drummers or bassists.

What really annoys me is this covers thing. You sound like business men, ok there is a gap in the market for cover bands for dinner parties and weddings, i shall take up an instrument, practice like a robot for a few years, then get gigs and make money. No interest in original music, spending their lives impersonating and paying tribute to someone else's life, yeah good fun. That's not why music is to me. If drummers were only about jeeping rhythm you could mic up a metronome. Most/All Rock music would be crap without the drums, simple drums is better than no drums, simple drums is better than simple drum machine.

The Fact is with the way the world has gone, there are far more musicians these days, and the degree to which they give a crap and the time they put in to it varies right across the board. But they do it as a hobby, we don't all set out to impress, we don't all have to be "remarkable" or virtuosos'. If the person or people are doing something different that is a plus, and should more than compensate for technical ability.

But this going out and covering Punk bands at blast, or Barry Manilow for weddings just baffles me, i can't understand how someone who plays an instrument isn't curious, and doesn't try to write something that isn't written in music in front of them. But as i said up there somewhere it's all about the satisfaction one gets out of playing.

robbie1876 · 28-01-2005 07:40PM

Obviosuly there are people who approach music as a business, there are people who play music for the love of it, and there are people (like myself) who are somewhere in the middle. I can completely understand why someone would want to play Barry Manilow songs at a wedding, and so would you if were making the money that good wedding musicians can make.

I was in covers bands for 10 years before I had the urge to go create some original music, does that make me a bad person, or less of a musician? Of course not, it's all subjective, and as Nidge says, it's all about the satisfaction of getting up there and playing.

I don't like the elitist attitudes that alot of 'original' musicians have towards covers musicians, particularly from younger guys. There is a lot to be learned from the covers scene, such as playing with discipline and consistency, as well as developing a talent for learning songs by ear, and therefore recognising chord structures, melodies etc in practice.

Nidge · 28-01-2005 10:29PM

you can learn to figure out songs by ear on your own at home, and the other things you have mentioned can be done by practice on your own. Any sort of experience from playing in any sort of band set up is beneficial. It's not elitist, it's an opinion, that somebody who doesn't play an instrument could have. I thinkin from the person who is covering the songs perspective, i on the outside don't care, i would have thought one would prefer to talk sing about their own experiences, or establish there one unique style of music, anyhoo.

robbie1876 · 29-01-2005 12:16AM

It can be totally elitist, but generally from the less mature bands. It's the 4 kids who get together with their very mediocre abilities, and 2 weeks later take to slagging off covers bands that get to me. Once, I remember this 17 year old kid decided to give me a hard time at a covers gig, mainly because he was in an original band and I wasn't. I laughed, but he insisted on giving me his demo, which was terrible unfortunately. sigh...

In fairness, there are lots of bands I personally know who don't have this attitude, but quite a few high profile, more established bands that do.

The rest of what you're saying is fair enough to a point, any sort of playing can be beneficial as long as you can be self critical. I'm not suggesting that everyone should go play covers for a while, and the reason we're talking about covers at all is because, as stated earlier, that's where all your drummers and bassists are lurking!

Nidge wrote:

I thinkin from the person who is covering the songs perspective, i on the outside don't care, i would have thought one would prefer to talk sing about their own experiences, or establish there one unique style of music, anyhoo.

This bit I don't understand, you'll have to explain it again for me.

Nidge · 29-01-2005 02:12AM

i don't see how you would, i really should read over these things before i post them. Basically in general i would think that all musicians would like to tell their own story i.e. making their own music. It's just i would find it unsatisfactory to be singing the words of someone else all the time. You say you are playing original stuff now, in general i would expect most people to want to finally do their own take on things.

and i have never heard of actual discrimination against cover bands, it's not like it means you are crap or anything.

This demo he did...what did he try and show you his blinding soloing skills?

have you noticed?

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