have you noticed?

drummer 666

have you noticed that there isn't that many drummers/bassist's in Ireland?

Barryoh2004

that's cos they either suck or are already in bands

drummer 666

no, that there aren't that manyt drummers or bassist...there are to many guitarists out there

Mr. CooL ICE

I'm a bassist, and I live with a drummer, who is also on boards.ie

But there isn't necessarily a lack of drummers or bassists, just a surplus of guitarists.

drummer 666

LordChessington wrote:

I'm a bassist, and I live with a drummer, who is also on boards.ie

But there isn't necessarily a lack of drummers or bassists, just a surplus of guitarists.

true to that... my mate is a bassist and also on Borads.ie

we're noth really good mates and that

the thing is...a band is made up of bass and drums...don't ya think?

Waltons

I have noticed that there are far more guitarists than anything else. Have had real problems finding a singer

drummer 666

yeah.... the I'm in..we have one... now alls we need is a good guitarist and we'll be set

Carreira

There’s a distinct lack of musicians that actually understand what it takes to get a band to go places.

The ‘scene’ has never been as bad as it is now in Dublin.

Check out the hotpress top 10 bands to look out for this year… Mainline are in there.

Mainline are a decent enough, but by no means the finished article that Hotpress is biggin them up to be.

There’s just not enough muso’s out there with decent tastes in music. Most bands that play in Dorans or Voodoo either sound like a bad version of Nickelback or a bad version of Oasis.

And don’t blame the drummers.. I’m a drummer and due to not being able to find a decent band and because I can no longer practise at home, I’m left to go rusty. Unlike the guitarists, you cant just pick up a kit and start jamming anytime you want. the only way to get good is constant jamming with a band… now, if you cant find a decent band, how are you supposed to get good???????????

What we really lack are quality singers… there’s very few decent front men out there.

Jonathanpbk

I'm friends with some of Mainline... But don't get me wrong! I'm really not a very big fan... I'm not really a fan at all!
It sickens me to see how over-hyped they are when they're not even tight yet. They're playin' Oxegen for fúcks sake.
But back on topic, I'm a bassist and I know a few other bassists and a few drummers (although you're right, they're all in bands!). I'm not in a band and I have been told I'm very good but I just dont have the time to be committed in a band... And yes, there are WAY too many guitarists out there.

Carreira

Well they’re playing the sort of stuff that I would listen to except I don’t think their drummer is at the same level as the rest of those lads… he’s far too sketchy.

But its like the things, according to all the press last year, the things were supposed to be in the middle of an A&R battle… eh, they’re still not signed.

Being in a band in Dublin is just not fun.

Doctor J

There are plenty of drummers and bassists, just not enough good ones. There are too many drummers who either can't play or else feel they must play a billion beats per second all the time. There are very few drummer who can combine technique with musicality.

Carreira

Its very hard to play well to a bad song.

joejoem

no

Carreira wrote:

There’s a distinct lack of musicians that actually understand what it takes to get a band to go places.

This is the main problem I have found. Ive been in and out of bands for the last few years and I just got sick of the **** I was playing with. For me I can not be happy going on stage and doing a **** performance and saying "ah it was alright" there is no point. Practice is the only thing that will make it good, and I would hate to be a studio band, Live bands command the most respect.

Carreira wrote:

What we really lack are quality singers… there’s very few decent front men out there.

I think this is where our mentality comes into it. I love when a band is tight, like they all hang out together, but I have seen alot of bands where the music was so tight together but the front man was so weak, I think this is mostly down to a loyalty of friendship. Personally I was singing with a few bands and I allways seemed to have different directions to the others and I never slept in my dreams of grandure like the others. I have gone out on my own now and have been writing acousticly for the last two years, and currently have a number one (tied with Damien Rice even though I would count our music very differently) in the top downloads off the net. I would love to meet a band who wanted to get tight, **** the politics and just get on with it, but its just so dificult to sift through the wasters and euro star and peroxide wannabees.

Sorry about the long post. But I think its about time we had an Irish version of the Foo Fighters, Rock is dead but its time for a real revival. A blend of sweet and hard that will shake the Irish music scene to the core, discarding all the Linda Martins and cheese masters along the way.

My name is Mud

joejoem wrote:

its about time we had an Irish version of the Foo Fighters.... A blend of sweet and hard that will shake the Irish music scene to the core

gonna use this as shamless PR for JimNasty

and the problem with not many drummers in Ireland boils down to:
- Space to practice in i.e. sound proofing, and physical space
- Cost - drums aint cheap!
- Logistics - they arent easy to transport

Carreira

If you go into Music maker and ask them how many kits they sold at Christmas you would be shocked. I was speaking to a sales guy awhile back and he mentioned that sabian have sold so many cymbals thru music maker that there would be enough to put one in every house in this country….

Its very easy to sound decent on a kit, quite hard to sound excellent.. that’s why there’s so many joe average drummers out there. its usually a bassist or guitarist that really wants to be in a band.

Iv never played any other instrument than the drums and don’t plan to… you should pick and instrument and keep it for life… even if you suck like nobody has ever sucked before.

joejoem

no

Do you play at the moment?

Carreira

Im going to test the water and see what’s out there.

To be honest, I’m sick to **** of going thru a lot of **** for very little in return.

The logistical end of it is a bit of a nightmare and I much prefer jamming in a place that’s not a rehearsal room in town.

I used to be in a band and we secured our own praccy space in town and we rehearsed our arses off and sounded real tight towards the end, but that all fell apart..

joejoem

no

Yeah I know the feeling. I ****ing hate rehersal rooms like the ones in town, so small, hot and cramped. A friend of mine owns a rehearsal space (like the ones in town but with bigger rooms) in terrenure. Im going to try get into something new myself, but I work days and I dont want to give up my nights for people who are half arsed.

With the property boom any building bigger than lego has been knocked down and rebuilt into apartments so its hard to find somewhere decent to rehearse that you arent disturbing anyone. I was with a band in New York a few years ago and we had a huge cellar to rehearse in below a bar. It was ****ing great, go rehearse then get locked and go back down and play again.

Carreira

Yeah that sounds cool. The place we had in town had a fridge.. That was it! but we played as load as we wanted and anytime. It was great.

What do you play?

joejoem

no

Im a singer, play guitar too but I dont really like playing while Im singing. Like I was saying Im doing it on my own at the moment so I have to, but if I had the choice I wouldnt. Doing ok though, Ive gotten a bit of airplay, I just hate being classed as a singer/songwriter. That phrase just screams depression. My voice is too strong to do that kind of music. I guess I do an acoustic rock, a bit lighter than I want but its all I can do on my own. What kind of stuff do you play?

drummer 666

Doctor J wrote:

There are plenty of drummers and bassists, just not enough good ones. There are too many drummers who either can't play or else feel they must play a billion beats per second all the time. There are very few drummer who can combine technique with musicality.

well my friend....I can

drummer 666

Doctor J wrote:

There are very few drummer who can combine technique with musicality.

well my friend..I'am one of those few who can play with technique with musicality

Nidge

well, in fairness singers are the hardest "things" to come by. As a few of you have mentioned. Whoever said it is exactly right, there exists some sort of idea in a persons head that if they are leading the band, that they are the band, and are the most important person in it. I mean, there was a post there asking for an "excellent front person". In no way is the phrasing of that suggesting that the band want some egotistical son of a......in their band, but really most people who really are great at leading a band develope some sort of concept that they are almighty. It's even more hilarious when this starts off early, before they have even achieved anything.

Either way i don't think enough people have a go at trying to sing. Most people shy away from trying it out. strange, but true

Barryoh2004

well, if you count the number of drummer/bassists, subtract the crap ones, and divide that by whether they'd be compatible with your band, that might not leave much to choose from.

Nidge

that's an interesting theory, and goes quadruple for singers.

arbeitsscheuer

Nidge wrote:

that's an interesting theory, and goes quadruple for singers.

Very much so. Bands generally have a pretty precise idea of what they want their sound to be like, and they want a certain type of voice that'll complement it - which is by and large exceptionally difficult to find. Most bands end up making a compromise cos they get sick of looking for the "perfect" frontman.

And as Nidge said before, not enough people either give singing a go or have enough confidence in their own abilities. I was in a band before where the lead guitarist was a better singer than me (Nidge: "that wouldn't be difficult", Me: "Hey!" ) but however much I tried to persuade him, he wouldn't sing in public. Ah well, more for me I guess.

Nidge

yeah i don't understand that either, if you are willing to play in public at all i don't see the difference between the guitar and vocals, ok there are obvious differences, but either way you are putting yourself out there. I think one is much more likely to mess up when playing their instrument than they are when singing. That's taking that you have rhythm and ability to sing in key as a given.

joejoem

no

I agree and disagree, yeah the singer is the front man and you do have to put yourselves out there and show a load of confidence but its important that the rest of the band does that too. The best bands are the ones where each member compliments each other. Singers do have there flaws and some of them do make an arse of themselves but the same can be said for guitarists. Some guitarist can stupidly ruin a band by cranking the guitar volume right up and slamming in a load of solo's. I dunno, I think an ideal situation is where everyone meets in the middle and realises its about the overall sound coming out and the overall look not just the look/sound of one person.

Dr. Loon

drummer 666 wrote:

well my friend..I'am one of those few who can play with technique with musicality

There's nothing worse than an arrogant drummer. Have you got any stuff to prove this musicality and technique? 80% of drummers in bands in Dublin that I've seen are bóllox to be honest. They only "get away" with sounding okay because the band backs them.

spunkymunky

80%? Now i think that thats a bit harsh. Were the bands any good with these crap drummers?
I have seen bands and yes i do think some drummers could do with some work but thats not to say that the guitarist was the best in the world. Ultimately the job of the drummer is keep the beat and if he can do that hes a good drummer. Its up the the guitarist (frontman?) to spice things up (because guitarist generally write the songs) and a drummer should compliment this so if the he has nothing to work with then whats he suppose to do? Now this isnt a stab at guitarists.

robbie1876

Well, my tuppence worth is that there are plenty of good drummers and bass players out there, they just don't want to play in your bands for free when they can be making good money in the covers scene. In New Colour Soul (not a covers band) we had a bit of difficulty finding a new bass player when our old Czech bass player left last year, but we have a dynamite guy now luckily enough. During the search, I contacted a few bass players from the covers scene, some of whom are truly world class players, and none of whom were interested in original music. That, I believe, is the problem, and is unavoidable.

In my covers bands, there is never any problem finding stand in drummers or bass players at the last minute who are excellent players. Guitar players are ten-a-penny both in the covers and original scene, while keyboard players are the rarest commoddity (which is great for me, as it keeps my price for covers gigs nice and high )

Dr. Loon

spunkymunky wrote:

Ultimately the job of the drummer is keep the beat and if he can do that hes a good drummer.

You wouldn't believe how strongly I disagree with this statement. This is why there are so many crap drummers around. They think if they can just keep the beat they're grand. I don't think so. A drummer should be considered a musician the same as anyone else in a band.

Maybe 80% is a bit harsh, but off the top of my head in all the gigs I've played and seen in the last 5 years I can only think of about 5 really good drummers I've seen. Others were - as you say - just keeping the beat.

spunkymunky

I see what your saying but did the drummers just keeping the beat take away from the songs? I have seen drummers doing just that and thought (being a drummer myself) you could do more but it doesnt sound all that bad. But seeing so many bands you must have also seen the exact opposite, a drummer doing way to much. It is a fine balance and really depends on a persons taste and opinion. For yourself you seem to have a very high standard to meet but to others this standard might not be so high.
Technique with musicality is important but to what degree in the irish pubs and club music scene.
As robbie said the money is in covers and tbh you dont need much to copy what people want to hear

Dr. Loon

Aye very true. All I mean is most drummers I've seen are very un-remarkeable, they're just work horses. It doesn't necessarily mean the band are bad. Take U2 as an example. Larry Mullen to me is a very un-remarkeable drummer.

I've seen drummers do too little, I've seen drummers do way too much, and you're spot on. It's a fine balance that's required. All in all though, I think a good drummer requires natural rhythm. I don't think rhythm can be taught.

spunkymunky

Agree with you on that one. Natural rhythm (think i have it, but still use a metronome to be sure). I cringe at my brother trying. Not an ounze of rhythm poor little bugga!!!

Shrimp

I'd have to disagree with you, I think that there's just as many Bassists/Drummers as there are other musicians.. all a matter of searching for them. I know 4 Bassists and 3 Drummers.. Also, the question in the poll isn't really too fare, your asking a question that either way you'll have Recognise that there aren't many bassists/drummers.

Like the type of questions you'd say to someone when you were in 4th class trying to 'slag' them: "Have you told your mom your gay?"

I mean, If you say no.. your screwed or if you say yeah.. your screwed..

cr

yes there are alot more guitarists then drummers/bass players, the thing is that about 80/90% of them are ****, because they teach themselves with no previous musical understanding or experience! im not saying that they shouldnt teach themselves but if your gonna learn something learn it properly, 7/10 guiatarists wouldnt know what to do if a string broke in the middle of a song! and im not saying that im one of the 10 or 20% of good guitarists because i would never call myself good as I can always be better! if some one else considers me to be good then its there opinion but i will always be a critic of own playing!

Shrimp

And these fact were researched?

80/90% of them are ****??

7/10 guiatarists wouldnt know??

10 or 20% of good??

I mean, seems like your pulling them out of your ass tbh..

Nidge

where to start....i know 3 bassists and 6 drummers...so there! As i saida already i don't think there is a distinct lack of drummers or bassists.

What really annoys me is this covers thing. You sound like business men, ok there is a gap in the market for cover bands for dinner parties and weddings, i shall take up an instrument, practice like a robot for a few years, then get gigs and make money. No interest in original music, spending their lives impersonating and paying tribute to someone else's life, yeah good fun. That's not why music is to me. If drummers were only about jeeping rhythm you could mic up a metronome. Most/All Rock music would be crap without the drums, simple drums is better than no drums, simple drums is better than simple drum machine.

The Fact is with the way the world has gone, there are far more musicians these days, and the degree to which they give a crap and the time they put in to it varies right across the board. But they do it as a hobby, we don't all set out to impress, we don't all have to be "remarkable" or virtuosos'. If the person or people are doing something different that is a plus, and should more than compensate for technical ability.

But this going out and covering Punk bands at blast, or Barry Manilow for weddings just baffles me, i can't understand how someone who plays an instrument isn't curious, and doesn't try to write something that isn't written in music in front of them. But as i said up there somewhere it's all about the satisfaction one gets out of playing.

robbie1876

Obviosuly there are people who approach music as a business, there are people who play music for the love of it, and there are people (like myself) who are somewhere in the middle. I can completely understand why someone would want to play Barry Manilow songs at a wedding, and so would you if were making the money that good wedding musicians can make.

I was in covers bands for 10 years before I had the urge to go create some original music, does that make me a bad person, or less of a musician? Of course not, it's all subjective, and as Nidge says, it's all about the satisfaction of getting up there and playing.

I don't like the elitist attitudes that alot of 'original' musicians have towards covers musicians, particularly from younger guys. There is a lot to be learned from the covers scene, such as playing with discipline and consistency, as well as developing a talent for learning songs by ear, and therefore recognising chord structures, melodies etc in practice.

Nidge

you can learn to figure out songs by ear on your own at home, and the other things you have mentioned can be done by practice on your own. Any sort of experience from playing in any sort of band set up is beneficial. It's not elitist, it's an opinion, that somebody who doesn't play an instrument could have. I thinkin from the person who is covering the songs perspective, i on the outside don't care, i would have thought one would prefer to talk sing about their own experiences, or establish there one unique style of music, anyhoo.

robbie1876

It can be totally elitist, but generally from the less mature bands. It's the 4 kids who get together with their very mediocre abilities, and 2 weeks later take to slagging off covers bands that get to me. Once, I remember this 17 year old kid decided to give me a hard time at a covers gig, mainly because he was in an original band and I wasn't. I laughed, but he insisted on giving me his demo, which was terrible unfortunately. sigh...

In fairness, there are lots of bands I personally know who don't have this attitude, but quite a few high profile, more established bands that do.

The rest of what you're saying is fair enough to a point, any sort of playing can be beneficial as long as you can be self critical. I'm not suggesting that everyone should go play covers for a while, and the reason we're talking about covers at all is because, as stated earlier, that's where all your drummers and bassists are lurking!

Nidge wrote:

I thinkin from the person who is covering the songs perspective, i on the outside don't care, i would have thought one would prefer to talk sing about their own experiences, or establish there one unique style of music, anyhoo.

This bit I don't understand, you'll have to explain it again for me.

Nidge

i don't see how you would, i really should read over these things before i post them. Basically in general i would think that all musicians would like to tell their own story i.e. making their own music. It's just i would find it unsatisfactory to be singing the words of someone else all the time. You say you are playing original stuff now, in general i would expect most people to want to finally do their own take on things.

and i have never heard of actual discrimination against cover bands, it's not like it means you are crap or anything.

This demo he did...what did he try and show you his blinding soloing skills?