are there any special forces in Ireland?

pork99 · 25-10-2004 11:01AM

cleansingfire wrote:

Military histories of both world wars will reveal that the battle hardiness of largely Irish regiments is dubious. Individual Irish soldiers have distinguished themselves but the collective reputation (leaving aside the 36th Ulster Division) is less than world beating.

But at the time of the Napoleonic wars the Irish were the best infantry in Europe (40% to 50% of Wellington's infantry were Irish - and mostly Irish Catholics ironically)

A Dub in Glasgo · 25-10-2004 11:09AM

Used as cannon fodder... pure and simple

We are a neutral (?) country therefore we generally do not need a battle ready special forces element

pork99 · 25-10-2004 11:22AM

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

Used as cannon fodder... pure and simple

Not quite that simple - they were English, Welsh and Scots cannon fodder (and actually Portugese and German also) as well.

There were Irish regiments in Wellingtons army; e.g. the Enniskillens, the Connaught Rangers, but many nominally English regiment contained a very high percentage of Irish recruits. Irish troops were fairly well integrated into the British army so singleing out the Irish as cannon fodder would have been difficult and actually didn't happen.

This was a time when military service was not popular in England, many recruits joined as an alternative to prison. The best recruiting grounds for the British army were Ireland and the Scottish Highlands because that's where there was the biggest "surplus" rural population - joining up was a route out of a life of poverty and destitution (much like the Gurkhas in my post above)

In a speech Wellington made in 1829;

It is mainly to our Irish Catholics that we owe our proud pre-eminence in our military career...I feel almost ashamed of the honors which have been lavished on me. I feel that the merit was theirs, what was so freely given to me was unjustly denied to them.

Found that quote on this site; http://users.ev1.net/~gpmoran/CeltChron4.htm but can't find any more about it e.g. the context in which he was speaking.

PiE · 25-10-2004 12:09PM

Weren't the ARW sent into the jungles of East Timor to do a little more than peacekeeping... and performed damn well?

Nuttzz · 25-10-2004 12:51PM

"Given the state of our public services and the incompetence and mismangement that we all meet every day of our lives I would be very surprised if our armed services were much different. "

So thats why Koffi (head of the UN) was asking Irish troops to be part of a future mission in Iraq?

The saying "Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought a fool than to open it and confirm that you are". If you know nothing about the Army or the ARW how can you comment on them like that?

FAB24 · 25-10-2004 12:55PM

Irish Army Rangers number at the moment are approx 200. Give or take. 14 Women. All ready to deploy within 1 hour anywhere in Ireland. All dedicated and highly motivated young people. People with a 'Press on regardless' attitude. Seeing service all over the world, both officially and un-officially. Initially guided and trained by the S.A.S. The Army Rangers train themselves. They have close ties with Special forces around the world.

Nuttzz · 25-10-2004 01:34PM

read it all at http://www.army.ie/army/arw.htm

cleansingfire · 25-10-2004 01:56PM

The problem with this thread is that it attracts all sorts of juvenile fantasists who imagine that the ARW is engaged in all sorts of 007 deeds, "officially and unofficially". Ireland is a neutral country and we have no need for any such interventions.

RuggieBear · 25-10-2004 02:07PM

cleansingfire wrote:

The problem with this thread is that it attracts all sorts of juvenile fantasists who imagine that the ARW is engaged in all sorts of 007 deeds, "officially and unofficially". Ireland is a neutral country and we have no need for any such interventions.

Ain't that the truth!!!

pork99 · 25-10-2004 02:44PM

FAB24 wrote:

Irish Army Rangers number at the moment are approx 200. Give or take. 14 Women.

Must make it the only special forces in the world to have any women members. Certainly no women in the SAS, SEALs or Delta Force (whatever Hollywood might tell you)

Though women certainly serve very effectively in special undercover units of the British Army Intelligence Corps.

Also are you sure there's 200 as that would make it roughly the same size as the SAS? (4 x 64 man squadrons I believe but could be mistaken)

Nuttzz · 25-10-2004 02:50PM

There are no women in the ARW, they are allowed to take the selection course, but a female has yet to pass.

Barry Aldwell · 25-10-2004 09:15PM

Nuttzz wrote:

There are no women in the ARW, they are allowed to take the selection course, but a female has yet to pass.

This is correct.

For the record, the ARW have been involved in Liberia and East Timor

Superman · 25-10-2004 10:48PM

All i can say is I had my fair share of armed Belgium federal police and they are lads you don't want to fuk with!

Superman · 25-10-2004 10:50PM

Nuttzz wrote:

There are no women in the ARW, they are allowed to take the selection course, but a female has yet to pass.

I can see a real G.I. Jane situation in the irish army in a couple of years

OfflerCrocGod · 25-10-2004 11:34PM

Superman wrote:

All i can say is I had my fair share of armed Belgium federal police and they are lads you don't want to fuk with!

To much information.

Victor · 26-10-2004 01:26AM

Barry Aldwell wrote:

The Gurkhas function in a similar role to the French Foreign legion: As cannon fodder, so that the coffins are those of foreigners, rather than those of British citizens. As Vietnam proved, public opinion can often be swayed when young men are being sent home in boxes, for no visible gains

Don't worry, the tradition is alive and well in Iraq and previously in the Balkans.

Superman · 26-10-2004 02:08PM

OfflerCrocGod wrote:

To much information.

SmartASS!!!!

RapierX · 27-10-2004 12:39AM

They served in the 'first' Gulf war and East Timor killing people and more peacefully in Somalia and Western Sahara, Bosnia Lebanon, Bosnia and Cyprus. Anyone who believes in the notion that they are 'untested' is incorrect. Its true that our small, neutral (heh) country doesnt require a big army but I'm quite sure they do require a special forces unit for cases that have arisen in similar countries. Iranian Embassy Siege 1980 or similar event would be a bit too big a task for the beer bellied ERU to handle. I wouldnt say there are many americanised countries in the world without special forces of some sort nowadays.

therecklessone · 27-10-2004 12:57AM

RapierX wrote:

They served in the 'first' Gulf war

Really? At what stage?

RapierX · 27-10-2004 01:07AM

therecklessone wrote:

Really? At what stage?

Officially no stage, I was told by an ex-ranger and ex-army man for that matter that he knows at least 9 rangers that served in the gulf alongside the coalition special forces. Think about it like this, foreign exchange students go on the class trips too don't they.

therecklessone · 27-10-2004 01:22AM

RapierX wrote:

Officially no stage, I was told by an ex-ranger and ex-army man for that matter that he knows at least 9 rangers that served in the gulf alongside the coalition special forces. Think about it like this, foreign exchange students go on the class trips too don't they.

With all due respect, I think that sounds like someone's been telling you porkies.

Victor · 27-10-2004 01:24AM

RapierX wrote:

They served in the 'first' Gulf war

Did they fight for Iraq* or Iran.

* May include forces from one of the following USA, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Kuwait, Bahrain, random Sunni fundamentalist .....

Paddy20 · 27-10-2004 01:28AM

Special forces, I have not read this thread, but in answer to the question. You bet we have "Special forces", just ask about the innocent dead killed by them.

Are you going to get a truthful answer. Not bloody likely :eek: That is real life, in a Capitalist Democracy.

therecklessone · 27-10-2004 01:30AM

Paddy20 wrote:

Are you going to get a truthful answer. Not bloody likely :eek: That is real life, in a Capitalist Democracy.

I'd be more interested in a non-cryptic question TBH....

RapierX · 27-10-2004 01:40AM

They've been involved in over 100 'real' missions over the last 15-20 years, why would they miss the biggest one since their formation, because Ireland is so-called neutral? Ireland isnt neutral.

A Special Forces Unit cant be 'special' if it shoots cardboard cutouts for 30-40 years. Most special forces units are a follow on from a group of fighting men that either earned the specific skills that set them apart from a conventional fighting unit or were forced to learn them. Since Ireland could only gain soldiering experience in peace keeping missions, I'm sure its military command grew more worried about '**** hitting the fan situations' that became more widespread since the 60's. The british send their peace keeping troops for retraining after the tour of duty is over. As do the americans, the irish dont need to because they are 'neutral' anyway and will be doing the same thing the next time, nice cover up. Why does a neutral country have a Special forces Unit
that has never actually been officially confirmed as taking part in either defensive or offensive missions? surely a truely neutral country would say they have 'the best of the best' as to ward off possibly security breach.

therecklessone · 27-10-2004 01:47AM

RapierX wrote:

They've been involved in over 100 'real' missions over the last 15-20 years, why would they miss the biggest one since their formation, because Ireland is so-called neutral? Ireland isnt neutral.

Anything to substantiate that, other than two ex-army punters, one of which may have been in the Rangers?

By the way, I met an ex-British secret service guy in a bar in Prague three years ago, and a bloke I lived with in college met a yank who had Castro in the sights of his sniper rifle... :rolleyes:

RapierX · 27-10-2004 01:54AM

Substantiation for you would most likely include the front page of 'The Sun' reading 'IRISH RAMBO RIDS TIMID TIMOR OF TERROR'. I can't substantiate what officially never happens or has happened. They train with a lot of other nations special forces, in my opinion its perfectly feasible smeone like the SAS took them into the Gulf in 1991.

therecklessone · 27-10-2004 02:00AM

RapierX wrote:

Substantiation for you would most likely include the front page of 'The Sun' reading 'IRISH RAMBO RIDS TIMID TIMOR OF TERROR'. I can't substantiate what officially never happens or has happened.

ROFL.

So this has happened over 100 times in the last 15-20 years and despite the fact that at least one Ranger has told you (a random punter) details of these actions, nothing has appeared in the media regarding it. Find that strange?

Come to think of it, you seem to have your finger on the pulse.

Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

RapierX · 27-10-2004 02:16AM

therecklessone wrote:

Come to think of it, you seem to have your finger on the pulse.

I'll just ignore that part because I've no idea what/where your attempting to go/do.

So this has happened over 100 times in the last 15-20 years and despite the fact that at least one Ranger has told you (a random punter) details of these actions, nothing has appeared in the media regarding it. Find that strange?

Details of what the ex-Ranger told me, alongside an interest in such matters made me do a bit of research which yielded some decent results. Dunno how good your french is but heres one example http://www.gign.org/unites/arw.php

On the official irish military site you'll find iraq mentioned as one of the places the ARW has 'frequented'. Damnit RTE didnt let us know that!

therecklessone · 27-10-2004 02:28AM

RapierX wrote:

Details of what the ex-Ranger told me, alongside an interest in such matters made me do a bit of research which yielded some decent results. Dunno how good your french is but heres one example http://www.gign.org/unites/arw.php

My French is non-existent, but babelfish gave me a passable translation of the following paragraph:

Bien que cette unité n'ait jamais officiellement reconnu aucune opération, l'ARW aurait effectué plus d'une centaine d'actions majeures en 20 ans, spécialement contre l'IRA et ses différents composantes, mais aussi lors de prise d'otages ou d'interpellations à risque. Maintes fois depuis la fin des années 70, les éléments de l'ARW seront déployés au sein du bataillon irlandais de la Finul au Sud-Liban, puis en 1993 plusieurs équipes de Rangers seront déployées en somalie avec l'UNOSOM II.

which translated as:

Although this unit never n'ait officially recognized any operation, l'ARW would have carried out more d'une hundred major d'actions in 20 years, especially against l'IRA and its different components, but also at the time of catch d'otages or d'interpellations at the risk. Many times since the end of the Seventies, the elements of l'ARW will be deployed within the Irish battalion of Finul in South-Lebanon, then in 1993 several teams of Rangers will be deployed in Somalia with l'UNOSOM II.

That were you got your 100 mission claim from? Anti-republican operations (not surprisingly I must add), the Leb and Somalia?

Did I mention I work with a guy who swears he's performed a tracheotomy (sp?) on a guy with a pen knife (I'mnot making these up by the way)?

are there any special forces in Ireland?

Comments