Scumbag paralyses child, wants €99 compo back

HashSlinging · 16-09-2004 01:08PM

Renegade_Archer wrote:

Those perps

you got my vote.

Blisterman · 16-09-2004 01:11PM

I think chain gangs would be a great idea.
And for shoplifters, those "I am a shoplifter" signs.
Public humiliation is good.

l3rian · 16-09-2004 03:13PM

Are there any women here?

are there any women here today?

orangerooster · 16-09-2004 03:19PM

Run them up and down crowe patrick several times a day in nothing but Abu Grahbe(sic) hoods-then showers fluxuating wildly between scalding heat and freezing cold.That'd sort most of the scum out the ones it fails on can be "processed" queitely and inexpensively.

grumpytrousers · 16-09-2004 03:42PM

orangerooster wrote:

Run them up and down crowe patrick several times a day in nothing but Abu Grahbe(sic) hoods-then showers fluxuating wildly between scalding heat and freezing cold.That'd sort most of the scum out the ones it fails on can be "processed" queitely and inexpensively.

Aye, and if any of 'em mention Jehovah....

Sleipnir · 16-09-2004 03:48PM

l3rian wrote:

are there any women here today?

I always wanted that get-up for fancy dress and the like.
Or even just to walk down grafton st in with a BT bag and serious look on my face.

skywalker · 16-09-2004 03:55PM

Winters wrote:

Bring back the old fashoned ways. Public stonings.... i have some nice stones i could sell you.

alright. ill take 3 flats and a packet of gravel.

cilamc · 16-09-2004 09:20PM

"Sub-human scum"?

"I hope he is made to suffer the way our son was made to suffer"?

"Public humiliation is good"?

"Publc stonings" (I bet you weren't even joking....)?

You're advocates of a just and tolerant society, are you?

Are you bloody idiots or what?

Have you ever considered even for a moment that some of the ideas you put around CONTRIBUTE to the culture of crime?

Ok so it's a heck of a cheek that the guy resposible for the accident is trying to claim back compensation, but for once and for all IT IS A LEGAL PROCESS AND THE NEWSPAPERS WHO PRINT THIS INFLAMMATORY NONSENSE ARE OF MORE DETRIMENT TO SOCIETY THAN ANY SINGLE BLOODY HOOLIGAN.

When oh when will the readers of tabloid newspapers, the middle class chatterers and the people who DO NOT LIVE IN DEPRIVED AREAS and therefore do not know what it is like to grow up in a place where the likelihood of ending up in prison outweighs the chance of getting a decent education learn to bloody well shut up or think before they speak?!

P.S. Wasn't the whole point of that scene in "Life of Brian" a satire about the type of people who dictate law and decide "who may cast the first stone"? Just a thought.

ionapaul · 16-09-2004 09:51PM

You're right. The criminal is the real victim here. Jail, fines, and reprimands of any kind are counter-productive, they only make the criminal-victim feel worse and adds to his/her detatchment from society. Criminal-victims need to be cherished and have additional resources spent on them to prevent society from forcing them to commit crimes (which are merely signs of society's failings after all). Forced redistribution of wealth will solve society's problems and eliminate the misfortune of the criminal-victim.

cilamc · 16-09-2004 10:04PM

ionapaul wrote:

Criminal-victims need to be cherished and have additional resources spent on them to prevent society from forcing them to commit crimes (which are merely signs of society's failings after all).

Hmmnnn. Multipy my sentiment 1,000 times and you can come up with nicely ironic counter-argument, eh?

Of course I'm not suggesting the "cherishing" of "criminal-victims" (whatever that might be). What I am in favour of is intelligent debate and not tabloid hysteria or people smugly commenting on how "the scumbags are ruining society" and need to be "shot in the back of the head" or "kicked to death" or some other such horror. It seems some people are incapable of debate unless things are made black or white (i.e. "let's round them all up and shoot them" vs. "let's release them from the prisons and send them on a nice holiday"). It's exactly the kind of guff you hear on inane radio phone ins and in The Sun/The Mirror/The Evening Herald.

How about getting rid of ideas of people as "scum" in the first place. At most the boy responsible in this case is an uneducated, ill-mannered teenager with lots to learn about life. Yes, a spell in prison may be useful if it's rehabilitative. Let's drop the "let's torture him because we're oh-so-well-adjusted moral bastions" claptrap.

ferdi · 16-09-2004 10:14PM

+

= Justice

ionapaul · 16-09-2004 10:24PM

I definitely don't think anyone should be tortured. Executed as painlessly as possible, yes, tortured just for the sake of it, no.
Got to admit I am fine with the concept of 'scum' - it is certainly something I believe in. I do not see everyone as having equal worth. Some are better than others*. This may be down to many factors INDEPENDENT of how or where they were brought up, but rather due to genetic factors such as pre-dispositions to violence, etc...

*not saying I am any better than any specific individual or indeed the general population

passive · 16-09-2004 10:42PM

good imput from cilamc... the rest of you are acting like complete children. yes, the guy should have recieved proper punishment through the legal system (something remotely proportional to the devestation he caused) and he should be forced to pay the full compensation, not to mention not get a f*cking cent back. that goes without saying and it's screwed up that he pretty much gets away with it. but you can't just scream "kill him, break his legs, viciously torture him in new and incredibly painful ways" because you've been shocked by what the guy did... it's completely reactionist and insane!

This may be down to many factors INDEPENDENT of how or where they were brought up, but rather due to genetic factors such as pre-dispositions to violence, etc...

you've gotta be joking, right? it's blatantly and undenyable clear that there are larger amounts of crime in poor/deprived areas but you're saying you choose to disregard that, it's all lefty crap, kill the criminals. yes, you have to punish people & prevent them from commiting crimes in the future (rehabilitation, prison, supervision, whatever, etc) but you also have to deal with the causes of all these problems! as climanc said, this modern day scum and people like him "grow up in places where the likelihood of ending up in prison outweighs the chance of getting a decent education" or similar circumstance. that's screwed up...

yeah the guys an absolute bastard... my first reaction is slit his throat, shoot him in the face, blow him up, all that crap..but it's not the proper reaction, people shouldn't end up like that. I/you/we have been raised right and have properly developed senses of right and wrong and responsibility and social obligation. Not everyone else grew up the same way... they didn't decide, from the same kind of mind you were in: "oh, i know..today i'll be an absolute scumbag, rob stuff and kill people"... circumstances forced people that way.. the people in charge and we, the people who put them there, need to fix the city & world around us so people like that are the exception rather than the expectation in all areas...

ferdi · 16-09-2004 10:46PM

chill man, i'm being ironic

passive · 16-09-2004 10:51PM

hey, i gave no mention to your picture

, that was mostly to ionapaul and the general impression from all previous posts...

ionapaul · 16-09-2004 11:02PM

passive wrote:

yeah the guys an absolute bastard... my first reaction is slit his throat, shoot him in the face, blow him up, all that crap..but it's not the proper reaction, people shouldn't end up like that.

Funny, I think most people feel like that but I rarely feel the desire to inflict pain or suffering 'just for the sake of it' on these people. I would just want what I define as justice visited upon them, be it a lengthy and extremely restrictive prison sentence or painfree execution, rather than an ultimately unsuccessful attempt at rehabilitation or re-engagement with society. I suppose that might be a more cold and calculating view that most hold.

Calibos · 16-09-2004 11:04PM

Yes, we should try to eliminate the root causes of the 'scum' mentality. ie alleviate poverty, better education etc etc etc but for the current generation the die has been cast. They are scum and will always be scum and deserve the kind of treatment that a joyrider got in England a few years back. He was nailed to a fence at the side of a road. There was uproar at the time, what a disgrace, inhuman treatment etc etc. Couldn't help but smile and say to myself that the f*cker deserved it.

Why do you joyride?

Cause ders nuttin ta do around here!

What about the bowling alley, youth club, amusement arcade, snooker club, football pitches etc etc

Sure, I'm barred from all a dem!

All of them?

Yeah, I stabbed some hippy for his mobile in da bowling alley, beat up a youth leader in da youth club cause he told me not ta sniff me lighar fluit in de jacks, I set fire to a bin in the snooker club, pulled down da goalposts wih me pony before I shoved a quater stick up its arse for a laugh...............

Yeah poor scum, nothing to do

cilamc · 16-09-2004 11:07PM

I kinda hope the majority of posts in this thread were ironic, if not it paints a fairly depressing picture of the level of debate on this board!

And I agree with you Passive - except your typo "cilmanc" which would be a particularly ironic name for me given the discussion! I have no desire to kill Mancunians.

grumpytrousers · 16-09-2004 11:50PM

I f***ing hate to have to quote Tony Blair, but he kinda had the right idea when he said that you don't just attack crime, but also the causes of crime. I'm not sure that impaling joy-riders on fences actually has as much of an effect on crime figures as some on this board would like to think.

Leave your blood lust sated, perhaps. But what will your bloodlust demand when the 'mob' decides to punish a rapist? A Child molestor? A Murderer. A Thief. A thief who molests kids and then kills 'em....

get real folks....

jill_valentine · 17-09-2004 01:16AM

Good points. It's frustrating, and nice to vent that frustration, but yeah, you guys are right. A society is defined by how it treats its lowest members right? Just took a few steps to the Brass Eye side of the force...

cilamc · 17-09-2004 01:50AM

jill_valentine wrote:

Just took a few steps to the Brass Eye side of the force...

Brass Eye did this topic quite well (much better than the disappointing "Special"...

TED MAUL: Face it, if you don't get a job, (your son) is stuffed!

MAN: Well, I'm looking for a job.

TED MAUL: But you need to look hard!

MAN: But, I am looking hard...

TED MAUL: Yeah but really hard!

MAN: I am, I...

TED MAUL: Couldn't you just go round somebody's house and clean up?

MAN: What - clean somebody's house?

TED MAUL: Yeah, and ask for money!

MAN: (thinks for moment, baffled at argument) Well, I suppose...I could but I mean...it'd be a bit demeanin'...

TED MAUL: (interrupting) Good! Well do that then!

jill_valentine · 17-09-2004 01:59AM

Hard to argue with Ted Maul. Ooh, I think it's time to break out The Day Today... This is our War keeps coming true though, so I think I'll skip that one...

MadsL · 17-09-2004 02:19AM

Nail 'em up I say, nail some sense into 'em!!!!

...wonderful race the Romans, wonderful...

billy the squid · 17-09-2004 06:48AM

Has this story been covered in the UK media yet. I wonder would he qualify for chav of the month at chavscum.co.uk

grumpytrousers · 17-09-2004 09:52AM

jill_valentine wrote:

Hard to argue with Ted Maul. Ooh, I think it's time to break out The Day Today... This is our War keeps coming true though, so I think I'll skip that one...

OT

when you break out The Day Today, make sure to find that easter egg on DVD1 with peter o hanrahanrahan in new york...

Calibos · 17-09-2004 03:51PM

Tis a funny old rock and roll world. Mother dragged me out of the bed this morning screaming that my oul fella had just rang and had just been attacked/attempted robbery in the family newsagent this morning. The 2 of us hopped into the car seconds after I had my trousers on!. Got down to the shop with the contents of the counter all over the floor, the counter moved about 2 foot out of position and the poor uol lad covered in cuts and bruises. He had fought off the scumbag......oh I mean poor victim of deprivation who fled the scene empty handed and without his weapon of choice, his wheel brace.

Now thankfully my dad is a 'young/fit' 57 so physically the incident hasn't done him too much harm and I imagine mentally this incident will be like water off a ducks back. We were both able to laugh after the 'attempted' robbery at gunpoint a few years ago, so imagine this incident isn't going to affect him to any great degree. Dad managed to keep hold of the weapon/gun in that robbery too...hehe. Our new job...disarming the local crininal fraternity!!

:D

Damn I wish I had have been on duty with him this morning. The Guards have been great but tbh whats the point. I would have preferred to have been there and just got a few digs in at the time and let that be the justice, because tbh if they even catch this scumbag, the trial and the subsequent equital or imposition of the probation act will be an almighty waste of everyones time.

Scum(victim) of the earth!!!!!

Doper Than U · 17-09-2004 04:33PM

*yawns* So tired of hearing the "poor unfortunate social reject who has no choice but to retaliate against the system that made him the way he is" argument. It simply isn't supported by the MOST basic statistic of all (that everyone seems to LOVE to ignore) : THe majority (lets say for the sake of argument 90-95%) of people who are disadvantged/poverty stricken/abused as children/abused by the state/church/peers etc etc are GOOD people who do NO harm to anyone.

My god.. the amount of people I know that are from "Scumbag" areas, or who have grown up in a house of physical and mental abuse, and have turned out into DECENT hard working people who would hurt no-one. Now you're saying that this asshole who crippled a SEVEN year old boy should just be "excused" of responsibility in some way because he had a hard time???? You have got to be kidding me!!!..
Here's a thought.. his life will have been NOWHERE as hard as the life of this poor boy. He made the choice to drive that car, he HAS to be held responsible for his actions in the severest manner possible. Not because he deserves it, not because it will make the rest of us feel better, not because it will teach him a lesson... but because it will PREVENT him from EVER doing it again!.. There is no guarantee whatsoever that social and psychological help will correct such abhorrent behaviour. But it doesn't take a genius to figure out that if this guy is no longer on the planet, he can no longer hurt innocent people. Victims (and potential victims) must have absolute priority in the case of the legally sane who CHOOSE to commit crimes.. and make no mistake, this guy MADE THAT CHOICE!

cilamc · 17-09-2004 04:50PM

Doper Than U wrote:

*yawns* So tired of hearing the "poor unfortunate social reject who has no choice but to retaliate against the system that made him the way he is" argument. It simply isn't supported by the MOST basic statistic of all (that everyone seems to LOVE to ignore) : THe majority (lets say for the sake of argument 90-95%) of people who are disadvantged/poverty stricken/abused as children/abused by the state/church/peers etc etc are GOOD people who do NO harm to anyone.

(Spitting out tea...) Eh? And where does this "statistic" come from then? Would be interesting to know which body carries out surveys to tell us which people are "good" and "do NO harm to anybody". I you must use statistics to prove a point, at least come up with one which actually carrries some weight! 87.4% of statistics are made up on the spot, you know!

Doper Than U wrote:

My god.. the amount of people I know that are from "Scumbag" areas, or who have grown up in a house of physical and mental abuse, and have turned out into DECENT hard working people who would hurt no-one. Now you're saying that this asshole who crippled a SEVEN year old boy should just be "excused" of responsibility in some way because he had a hard time???? You have got to be kidding me!!!..
Here's a thought.. his life will have been NOWHERE as hard as the life of this poor boy. He made the choice to drive that car, he HAS to be held responsible for his actions in the severest manner possible. Not because he deserves it, not because it will make the rest of us feel better, not because it will teach him a lesson... but because it will PREVENT him from EVER doing it again!.. There is no guarantee whatsoever that social and psychological help will correct such abhorrent behaviour. But it doesn't take a genius to figure out that if this guy is no longer on the planet, he can no longer hurt innocent people. Victims (and potential victims) must have absolute priority in the case of the legally sane who CHOOSE to commit crimes.. and make no mistake, this guy MADE THAT CHOICE!

It is irrelevant that many people who live in deprived areas do not turn to "anti-social" behaviour, the point is that MORE PEOPLE IN DEPRIVED AREAS TURN TO CRIME THAN PEOPLE IN WELL OFF AREAS DO. I don't see how this is disputable or difficult to understand. It's a facet of capitalist culture that there are people who possess things (e.g. me this computer, Calibos' dad with his shop) and we happen to have had the right upbringing to afford us these priveliges. The reason my parents' treated me the way they did (and yours and everyone's for that matter) is dictated by their surrounding environment.

Doper Than U · 17-09-2004 05:18PM

Wow.. I'm staggered that you would assume to know what happened to me or my parents considering the offence you took to that statistic.. my bad.. that was the wrong word to use. How about "anectdotal evidence".... which is about the same term I'd use to describe the assumption you seem to be pushing, ie that environment carries more weight than genes... Basic premise in modern psychology as we speak is that science cannot "prove" the degree to which society/environment influences the development of a human being any more than it can "prove" the genetic influence.

As it happens, you are WAY off with your last statment as regards my family. Dad was poverty stricken, in a violent home, one of the "I had no shoes to go wear when I sold sticks for firewood" brigade (lol.. it may sound so stereotypical, but it's absolute fact, of that I can assure you). And yet here he is, a loving devoted father and husband who manages to run one of the most successful small companies in the country... funny how there's always an exception to prove the rule...

The reason my parents' treated me the way they did (and yours and everyone's for that matter) is dictated by their surrounding environment.

Thats my favourite bit right there I think... and you have the nerve to question my little "statistic". What an wonderful sweeping statement of absolutely no value.. as I said that is HOTLY debated by todays leading pyschiatrists, psychologists and scientists... that you purport to have solved that problem in your own home is a fantasy at best.

Look, I didn't want to start a fight with you in particular, and my words have probably been stronger than they might normally have been, but the point is.. don't make sweeping statements when they can't be backed up with fact, which you so kindly pointed out to me, and I had no choice but to take back my comment about the statistic. Environmental influence on development is still in its theory stages... don't assume that this guys irresponsibility stems from any particular social problem he may have had. At the end of the day, he made a choice, he should have to live with the consequences.. however harsh they may (should?) be...

pork99 · 17-09-2004 07:41PM

This is how I'd like to meet him

Scumbag paralyses child, wants €99 compo back

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