Dublin Rail Plan map

Andrew Duffy · 02-09-2004 1:25pm #1

I made up a map of the proposed Dublin Rail Plan based on all the information currently in the public domain.

http://www.crannog-software.com/ad/drp.pdf

If you like what you see, write letters to your TDs asking them to support giving Irish Rail the funding to build it.

Although the map shows what is proposed, or at least as much as we can ascertain from various press releases and Dáil commissions, there are a couple of extra things I'd like to see as well - interchange stations at East Wall and Glasnevin Junction, stops for Cabra and Croke Park, an extension to Swords and quadrupling the Northern Line for a start. Once funding for the initial plan is secure, we can start lobbying for those improvements. We can also lobby for the planned Luas lines to fill in the gaps to the North and South of the city centre.

sliabh · 02-09-2004 1:35pm

Andrew Duffy wrote:

If you like what you see, write letters to your TDs asking them to support giving Irish Rail the funding to build it.

It's not that simple. Even if you like what you see there is a question as to whether Irish Rail are the people to build it. Personally I don't think so.

Also I believe that under EU competition guidelines an project of this scale would have to be tendered for both construction and operation. To do otherwise would break the various statutes on state aid. So the government can't just produce the money and tell IR to get digging.

silverside · 02-09-2004 2:20pm

very nicely drawn map, whether you agree with the network layout or not.

If CIE/Connex could provide a map like that showing the main routes in the city, (like the tube map in London) it would be most useful.

enterprise · 02-09-2004 2:35pm

Andrew,

Congrats on a superb map - a brilliant layout and clear, easy to read information.

I would like to see this map in todays railway (just to see how it compares + what we should have!), and maybe you should consider inserting selected bus routes where they provide good connections.

Did you make this PDF yourself or did you use a template?

Suggested routes:

17 - Blackrock - Dundrum - Rialto.

75 - Dun Laoghaire - Dundrum - Tallaght.

91 - St. Stephens Green - Heuston (when it starts running this route).

114 - Blackrock - Sandyford - Kilcross.

If anybody has anyother bus connections please add to it!

Enterprise.

sliabh · 02-09-2004 2:43pm

Dublin bus have posted a layout map of their key routes in that format at the top of Gtafton Street. I can't find it on their site though. Might be worth taking a smap of it with a digital camera?

enterprise · 02-09-2004 2:49pm

Yes I have studied it (yes sad I know) at length, there are a few mistakes in it however!

IE have quite a good map of their DART / COMMUTER lines but I would love to see something on the lines of the "London Connections" map. note this includes EVERY rail line in london, not just the LUL lines so is quite big

link to London Connections:

http://tube.tfl.gov.uk/content/tubemap/images/london_connections.pdf

ENTERPRISE

Andrew Duffy · 02-09-2004 3:22pm

I fixed a few things, the same link applies. I made the map myself - is there a template for that kind of map? If there is I'll kick myself.

sliabh wrote:

It's not that simple. Even if you like what you see there is a question as to whether Irish Rail are the people to build it. Personally I don't think so.

Who then? The RPA? IÉ has a pretty good record of getting things done on budget and on time.

sliabh wrote:

Also I believe that under EU competition guidelines an project of this scale would have to be tendered for both construction and operation. To do otherwise would break the various statutes on state aid. So the government can't just produce the money and tell IR to get digging.

Of course the construction will go to tender - IÉ doesn't have a tunnel boring machine sitting in Inchicore. There are no rules against a state operator being given new infrastructure - the Luas was stolen from CIE, had a chunk hacked out and was tendered, but that was just Fianna Fáil ministers protituting the state to their friends in big business.

Zaph0d · 02-09-2004 3:39pm

Well done, this map is really clear.

Hagar · 02-09-2004 3:48pm

Excellent work, really clear. I think Blackhorse on the red line should be Black Lion. Other than that top notch.

Andrew Duffy · 02-09-2004 3:52pm

Hagar wrote:

Excellent work, really clear. I think Blackhorse on the red line should be Black Lion. Other than that top notch.

It's Blackhorse here, although I've no idea why. Same goes for Goldenbridge.

enterprise · 02-09-2004 4:01pm

I dont think there is Andrew.

But seriously, good work, a job well done. I would love to see it with todays rail nework.

You should seriously consider sending this to people in the dept of transport, IE and the RPA.

This is what we should have on our trams and trains along with fully intergrated ticketing (its coming slowly but surley).

Consider it!

ENTERPRISE

Victor · 02-09-2004 4:44pm

Some of this is opinion, some educated opinion, some reality.

On line 1/2, will Drogheda or Airport services be semi-express from Howth Junction?

I think only one station between St. Stephen's Green and Heuston is 'mean'.

DART 1

Add stations:
Leixlip Intel (Maynooth-Leixlip)
Porterstown (Clonsilla-Coolmine)
Add Blanchardstown Branch (or will this be "Metro")
"River Road" Phoenix Park Racecourse (Castleknock-Ashtown)
Ashington (Ashtown-Broombridge)
Liffey Junction
"Prospect" Phibsborough
Croke Park (?)
East Wall Junction (difficult to build - eastern platform would be sloping and curved)
Merrion (Sydney Parade - Booterstown)

DART 2
Add Balbriggan, Baldoyle as interchange stations
Delist Portmarnkock as an interchange station
Change "Clontarf" to "Clontarf Road"
Will Howth Junction be an Enterprise interchange?

Add stations:
Grange Road (Baldoyle-Howth Junction)
Howth Road (Killester-Clontarf Road)
Kilmainham (South Circular Road)
Inchicore (Depot halt)
Ballyfermot (Kylemore Road)
Cherry Orchard / Parkwest will become two stations, possibly "Cherry Orchard" and "Park West Avenue".
Clondalkin Station is likely to be moved or split.
Station likely at Kishoge / Balgaddy.

DART 3
Howth-Howth Junction likely to be a shuttle service.

Add stations:
M1
Malahide Road

Luas Red

Add stations:
IFSC 1 Exchange Place
IFSC 2 Custom House Square
Castleforbes Road (maybe)

Luas Green

Add stations:
Leopardstown
Gallops
Ballogan
Racecourse
Carrickmines
Laughanstown
Cherrywood (probably 2 stations)

Northwest
Commuter services extend to Longford.
Change Dunboyne branch to DART 1.

Southwest
At Spencer Dock move the line to the west of DART 2/3.
Add stations between Heston - Spencer Dock

North
Add branch at Drogheda for Navan (Drogheda-Duleek-Slane-Navan ).

South
Change name to "South East".

sliabh · 03-09-2004 8:53am

Andrew Duffy wrote:

Who then? The RPA? IÉ has a pretty good record of getting things done on budget and on time.

No they don't. Their record is at least as bad/good as the private sector. And they have had some clangers of failures, the ESAT telecoms line work is a recent example.

And it's a brave man that would suggest that IÉ be let operate such a major piece of infrastructure with their poor service and industrial relations record.

Andrew Duffy wrote:

There are no rules against a state operator being given new infrastructure

No but they must compete with private operators for the right to run it.

Andrew Duffy wrote:

- the Luas was stolen from CIE, had a chunk hacked out and was tendered, but that was just Fianna Fáil ministers protituting the state to their friends in big business.

I think most people are pretty happy with the idea of giving the Luas to a private operator. They seem to be running a pretty good service so far and it's is a good thing for IÉ as well.

It brings an end to their complacency. They can no longer assume that they are the only show in town and the gov will always give them any rail project that comes along. They have to demonstrate that they can do a better job. Also a new operator means new approaches e.g. how ticketing is working on the Luas. This is not something that CIE would ever have tried.

With fresh blood and ideas new approachs in a range of areas can be tried. The best can be selected by all operators and we the public will win.

Andrew Duffy · 03-09-2004 9:58am

The map is what's proposed - I'm not adding anything to it that I'd like, even things that really sell it like making the Dunboyne spur a Dart, or extra stations. Anyway:

Victor wrote:

On line 1/2, will Drogheda or Airport services be semi-express from Howth Junction?

The plan is for one line to operate all stations Kildare-Spencer Dock, then non-stop to Howth Junction and all stations North of there. Another line will operate all stations Heuston-Airport/Howth, although it is possible that Howth will be a shuttle, which I'm not in favour of.

Victor wrote:

I think only one station between St. Stephen's Green and Heuston is 'mean'.

So do I, but more can be built later. It would be cheaper to build them with the tunnel, of course.

Victor wrote:

Leixlip Intel (Maynooth-Leixlip)

This is on the DTO maps as well, in the same wrong location! Louisa Bridge is to the west of Intel, so an Intel station would be between Louisa Bridge and Confey.

Victor wrote:

Porterstown (Clonsilla-Coolmine)
...
"River Road" Phoenix Park Racecourse (Castleknock-Ashtown)

I need to rearrange the map a bit; I'm also not sure if these are going ahead.

Victor wrote:

Add Blanchardstown Branch (or will this be "Metro")

I'll leave that to the DTO.

Victor wrote:

Ashington (Ashtown-Broombridge)

I think this is going to be called "Pellettstown", and it's on the map.

Victor wrote:

Liffey Junction

This is pointless without the original Metro proposal, which will never happen.

Victor wrote:

"Prospect" Phibsborough
Croke Park (?)
East Wall Junction (difficult to build - eastern platform would be sloping and curved)

I'd like all three, but there's no plans for them, so they're not on the map.

Victor wrote:

Merrion (Sydney Parade - Booterstown)

Is this planned?

Victor wrote:

Add Balbriggan, Baldoyle as interchange stations
Delist Portmarnkock as an interchange station

I've removed most interchanges as I don't know what they'll be.

Victor wrote:

Change "Clontarf" to "Clontarf Road"

Ok.

Victor wrote:

Will Howth Junction be an Enterprise interchange?

Yes, to allow connections to the Airport.

Victor wrote:

Grange Road (Baldoyle-Howth Junction)
Howth Road (Killester-Clontarf Road)
Kilmainham (South Circular Road)
Inchicore (Depot halt)
Ballyfermot (Kylemore Road)

Again, they'd be nice, but there's no plans for them.

Victor wrote:

Cherry Orchard / Parkwest will become two stations, possibly "Cherry Orchard" and "Park West Avenue".
Clondalkin Station is likely to be moved or split.

They're both being moved. I'll change the name to "Cherry Orchard/Park West"
See here: http://www.irishrail.ie/projects/station_links.asp

Victor wrote:

Station likely at Kishoge / Balgaddy.

That's "Grangecastle" - it's a better name than Kishoge. It's also not getting built in the current Kildare Route Project, but the land is reserved.

Victor wrote:

Howth-Howth Junction likely to be a shuttle service.

I know. I hope it isn't, as there will be people who will have a one-seat ride turned into a three-seat one; that's not a good way to sell a project.

Victor wrote:

M1
Malahide Road
...
IFSC 1 Exchange Place
IFSC 2 Custom House Square
Castleforbes Road (maybe)
...
Leopardstown
Gallops
Ballogan
Racecourse
Carrickmines
Laughanstown
Cherrywood (probably 2 stations)

Unless they're planned, they're not going on the map. I don't know where the stops will be on the Point and Cherrywood extensions, so if anyone does, send me a link.

Victor wrote:

Commuter services extend to Longford.

The plan is to start electrification at Maynooth; Longford will be a non-stop service to Connolly (or maybe Spencer Dock, but I haven't shown that)

Victor wrote:

Change Dunboyne branch to DART 1.

As far as I know, Dunboyne will not be electrified, however crazy that sounds.

Victor wrote:

At Spencer Dock move the line to the west of DART 2/3.

Umm... Why?

Victor wrote:

Add stations between Heston - Spencer Dock
...
Add branch at Drogheda for Navan (Drogheda-Duleek-Slane-Navan ).

Not planned.

Victor wrote:

Change name to "South East".

Should have done this in the first place.

Victor · 05-09-2004 6:55pm

Andrew Duffy wrote:

Umm... Why?

Makes the map cleaner.

Andrew Duffy wrote:

Unless they're planned, they're not going on the map. I don't know where the stops will be on the Point and Cherrywood extensions, so if anyone does, send me a link.

Map attached. Cheerywood names are as accurate as I can remember.

Green - proposed routes as included in contribution scheme by DL-R co.co.
Navy - old route.
Pink "Platform for Change" options.

M1
Malahide Road

As included in Sunday Tribune article as Park & Ride, although nobody lives near either.

IFSC 1 Exchange Place
IFSC 2 Custom House Square
Castleforbes Road (maybe)

Line mincluded on DTO journey planner

enterprise · 06-09-2004 12:48pm

Andrew,

I see you have updated the map. South Eastern Commuter services will not be terminating at Pearse, they will continue northwards to Maynooth / Drogheda as is currently the case with a number of services.

ENTERPRISE

Zaph0d · 06-09-2004 1:08pm

Two small changes:
Salthill should be North of Dún Laoghaire
Balally is spelt incorrectly

Andrew Duffy · 06-09-2004 2:22pm

Hopefully the last revision to the map; I've fixed the two mistakes and changed the layout of the Maynooth, Sligo and Dunboyne lines to more accurately reflect the track layout.
It's been suggested that the gaps between express and stopping services on the same tracks make the map harder to read - I don't think so, but what do other people think?
Also, IÉ has said that all 16 slots per minute over the Loop Line will be used for the Maynooth-Bray DART, so I don't think long-distance trains will go past Pearse as they do now.

enterprise · 06-09-2004 3:09pm

"16 slots per minute"?

My god that will be a great service!

seriously though if your running Arklow / Rosslare services up from Bray to the city they are going to take up at least two DART paths, one if you slow the Rosslare train down. Therefore you might as well run it through to Connolly and beyond.

dmeehan · 07-09-2004 8:49am

lol - "16 slots a minute" now thats progress

Victor · 07-09-2004 1:41pm

dmeehan wrote:

lol - "16 slots a minute" now thats progress

It's a travelator.

Andrew, I played around with the map earlier. They are actually adding very little new railway (see attached - not the sharpest image).

dowlingm · 07-09-2004 7:35pm

what about Navan from the Dunboyne spur?

Victor · 07-09-2004 7:38pm

dowlingm wrote:

what about Navan from the Dunboyne spur?

Not part the the current plan and in any case of questionable merit, certainly until the route options are reevaluated (the Dunboyne-Navan population pattern doesn't follow the original line).

Yoda · 07-09-2004 10:53pm

Heh. Leaving Dublin on Monday. I don't think I'm going to care any more....

Andrew Duffy · 08-09-2004 9:32am

Slight update based on new information from Irish Rail - there will be two Park & Ride stations on the Airport branch, and Howth Junction - Howth will definitely be a shuttle service.

http://www.crannog-software.com/ad/drp.pdf

Victor · 09-09-2004 10:19am

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/newspaper/0,,2765-1247760,00.html

Dublin commuter rail tracks and stations get €500m upgrade
Stephen O’Brien

RAIL commuters into Dublin from surrounding counties will be given a dramatically improved service as a result of more than €500m of new investment in tracks and stations, according to Iarnrod Eireann.
The service will aim to provide one train to the capital every 10 minutes at peak times.

The rail company is spending €400m increasing the number of tracks between Co Kildare and Dublin from two to four between Hazelhatch station near Celbridge and the capital. That would allow it to carry 10,000 commuters an hour into the city.

Existing rail and carriage capacity limits the firm to carrying just 2,000 commuters an hour on Dublin’s southwestern route from Portlaoise through Kildare to Heuston station.

A senior Iarnrod source confirmed that the track improvements, when completed around 2009, would necessitate a further investment in rail cars of well in excess of €100m.

The company is also spending €300m on 120 high-speed rail cars this year, which will service its busy intercity routes and allow an hourly service on the key Dublin-Cork route.

A further €50m will be invested in a new maintenance depot to service the 100 mph intercity rail cars coming on stream later this year. The revamp will:

* Expand Dublin’s southwestern rail route from two tracks to four;

* Build two new commuter stations at Adamstown (south of Lucan) and Kishoge (west of Clondalkin) to serve major new residential suburbs;

* Relocate two existing stations — Clondalkin will be moved to Fonthill Road and Cherry Orchard to Park West — to facilitate recent industrial and retail developments.

According to a government source, the €50m depot is likely to be situated in Portlaoise on the main Dublin-Cork line.

Iarnrod Eireann is currently finalising a “railway order” — the rail equivalent of a planning application — to be submitted to Seamus Brennan, the transport minister, within weeks.

The works will entail significant land acquisition along the route by Irish Rail.

Barry Kenny, a spokesman for the company, said: “This is Irish Rail recognising that Irish society has changed. People are commuting longer distances to work, and the planning system is starting to make new development contingent on proper transport infrastructure.”

The four-track rail route from Celbridge to the capital will allow intercity trains to whizz by at high speed on inner tracks while commuter rail cars stop for passengers on outer lines.

Victor · 23-09-2004 8:52am

Bump

A Dub in Glasgo · 23-09-2004 9:12am

Fantastic map

It would be great to see something along these lines produced by the authorities

See this PDF done by the Strathclyde Passenger Transport for rail links in and around the Glasgow area.

Is there a body similar to the SPT for the Dublin area?

Yoda · 23-09-2004 9:16am

It is indeed a fantastic map, and I was only kidding when I said I wouldn't care. I'm really looking forward to the Luas linking up Heuston and Connolly, so I can get from Westport to Howth without a bus....

Andrew Duffy · 23-09-2004 9:18am

I think I'll leave out the second IFSC stop for now. The Luas lines make drawing a map that's even remotely geographically correct impossible.

fiachs · 23-09-2004 9:21am

quick point from reading through this - leixlip louisa bridge is to the east of intel, not the west, so a leixlip-intel stop would actually be between maynooth and leixlip louisa bridge, not louisa bridge and confey.

Dublin Rail Plan map

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