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Bus crash on Wellington Quay

124

Comments

  • #92
    whosurpaddy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,718 ✭✭✭whosurpaddy


    Originally posted by uberwolf
    TBH no emergency services personell is going to be distracted from their work by anything during an incident, his presence would have impeded no body. To suggest otherwise is an insult to their professionalism.

    im not trying to insult their professionalism and would appreciate u not putting words into my mouth. my point is why make their job any harder than it needs to be.
    im sorry but i dont see that he served a purpose by being there and noone has said anything so far to change my opinion.


  • #93
    Sleipnir
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,513 ✭✭✭Sleipnir


    well do you have some evidence to suggest the he was there was the emergency services were actually working on people?
    Or have to just made that assumption?


  • #94
    whosurpaddy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,718 ✭✭✭whosurpaddy


    if you read my post again i havent made any statements either way, ive said i dont know. i dont think anyone knows definitively what happened and the timeline at the moment. however anthonymcg said "The victims had left the scene by the time Bertie was there." i merely said i didnt know whether that was true


  • #95
    anthonymcg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 663 ✭✭✭anthonymcg


    Originally posted by whosurpaddy
    however anthonymcg said "The victims had left the scene by the time Bertie was there."

    this is my view based on what they showed on the news of bertie at the scene. i think he would have been kept back from the scene until all the victims had been cleared. to presume that he inteferred or distracted anyone is frankly bertie bashing gone too far. i dont like the bloke but i wont berate him for a decision he made in circumstances like this.


  • #96
    ferdi
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,598 ✭✭✭ferdi


    what is the point of all this bull**** arguments? 5 people died. thats it.


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  • #97
    whosurpaddy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,718 ✭✭✭whosurpaddy


    Originally posted by anthonymcg
    this is my view based on what they showed on the news of bertie at the scene. i think he would have been kept back from the scene until all the victims had been cleared. to presume that he inteferred or distracted anyone is frankly bertie bashing gone too far. i dont like the bloke but i wont berate him for a decision he made in circumstances like this.


    i havent said he directly interferred directly with anyone, i realise he didnt go up to paramedics and talk to them while they were trying to save someones life.

    and tbh what im saying here has nothing to do with my personal politics, im not a bertie basher or a bertie fanboy. i just think that him being there was a distraction in general. i think this is evidenced by the amount of space discussion of him being there has taken up in this thread. thats all i have to say on the issue unless something new comes up.


  • #98
    zAbbo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,985 ✭✭✭✭zAbbo


    By Bertie being there, do you not think it took the distraction away from the initial scene, and more so onto Bertie himself. Which is a good thing, i dont really wanna see pictures of dead bodies and the scene itself.

    Why are you muppets claiming that he is some sort of Media Whore, i know if i was in his position, id have been down giving the interview to the media. At a time like that this is what you want, the countries Top Man informing the nation, well either him or Spookey Donkey ;)


  • #99
    uberwolf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,581 ✭✭✭uberwolf


    Originally posted by whosurpaddy
    im not trying to insult their professionalism and would appreciate u not putting words into my mouth. my point is why make their job any harder than it needs to be.

    get off your high horse. this implied what I was talking about. I am simply trying to distinguish between whatever you think the taoiseach was up to and the emergency services fawning over a qausi celebrity at a time like that.


  • #100
    BKtje
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,088 ✭✭✭BKtje


    Jesus Bertie looked fairly confused and didnt have much to say to the media when he did say something. I think he just wanted to come see what happened and the media jumped on him. Leave the chap alone (in this case).

    What we at gamecon eventually settled on was that an out of service bus hit a bus stopped (or coming up to) the bus stop which then jerked or jumped onto the path.

    No hijacking or flipping was involved. (we didnt even know what happened tho till a few minutes after when we started noticing crowds then someoen came in and said that a bus had hit another bus.)


  • #101
    zekiel
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 998 ✭✭✭zekiel


    I was one of the first from Gamecon to go out and down to see what happened. The things that I saw I will never forget, granted people are being killed a lot on the roads these days. but nothing could prepare me for what I looked at yesterday, I'm still completely shaken now, it was a horrific accident.

    So what if bertie was there!, he had no impact on the situation anymore than any of the people looking on, he simply looked on himself while probably speaking to one or two guards.

    :mad: Personally some of you guys that have posted on this thread disgust me, this isnt your everyday incident, 5 people were torn to pieces under a fast moving buss.
    Multiple more people were injured from shattered glass and flying objects. If this is put under the classification of an everyday incident then I give up on this country.

    My prayers are with the family's and relatives now. I truly do feel sorry for the family's and the victims of saturdays accident.

    I hope I never have to witness something like that again.


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  • #102
    BrianD3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,922 ✭✭✭BrianD3


    Personally some of you guys that have posted on this thread disgust me, this isnt your everyday incident, 5 people were torn to pieces under a fast moving buss. Multiple more people were injured from shattered glass and flying objects. If this is put under the classification of an everyday incident then I give up on this country
    People are literally torn to pieces on the road every day of the week. RTAs do tend to have a drastic effect on the human body. Ask any fireman. While the bus crash was not an everyday incident, equally tragic events occur on the roads quite regularly. You need to wake up. Just because you witnessed the bus crash first hand, does not mean that it was somehow a uniquely tragic or horrific event.

    BrianD3


  • #103
    uberwolf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,581 ✭✭✭uberwolf


    I appreciate your point and understand it but -

    there are a few things about this which make it unique in circumstance if not in outcome.

    i) it occurred in a location that had been supposedly designed and designated as safe.

    ii) any road incident which leaves 17 people hospitalised is 'major'.

    iii) it involved a state body & public transport.


  • #104
    Cabaal
    Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 28,617 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cabaal


    I personally see this as a everyday accident, yes its terriable people died, and yes its a terriable accident in general but alot worse things happen on a day-to-day basis and nobody seems to give a flying **** about the other events.

    People's prioritys just ain't right sometimes..


  • #105
    BrianD3
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,922 ✭✭✭BrianD3


    Point taken about the circumstances of the accident. An extreme example of this would be:
    -If 350 people die on the roads in a year, it's barely newsworthy
    -If a Boeing 747 crashes on landing at Dublin airport and 350 people die - there will be blanket news coverage for weeks - everyone will be talking about it - it'll be a major event - there will be huge investigations into why it occured.

    BrianD3


  • #106
    uberwolf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,581 ✭✭✭uberwolf


    Originally posted by Cabaal
    People's prioritys just ain't right sometimes..

    proximity leads to priority...
    people can identify so easily with this incident. My brother missed his connecting bus to this one. He took an hour and a half to answer his phone afterwards. We though he was involved for that time. Sundays main news was 8 Israeli's dead in a suicide bomb, only marginally worse in death count. Dublins streets matter more to me than Tel Avivs.

    Still more people died of Aids on saturday than buses. But its harder to see, we're sheltered from it.
    Point taken about the circumstances of the accident. An extreme example of this would be:
    -If 350 people die on the roads in a year, it's barely newsworthy
    -If a Boeing 747 crashes on landing at Dublin airport and 350 people die - there will be blanket news coverage for weeks - everyone will be talking about it - it'll be a major event - there will be huge investigations into why it occured.

    that investigation will lead to (potentially) one single cause which can be prevented from reoccuring. Those seperate deaths all have seperate circumstances and are harder to diagnose collectively. They both merit action and both are tragic.


  • #107
    Victor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,803 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    During the 30 or so years of the "troubles" 3,500 died in the violence, but perhaps 30,000 died on the roads (North & South).


  • #108
    JackKelly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,225 ✭✭✭JackKelly


    oh my god.i can't believe some of the things being said here.

    bertie being an attention whore?

    This being a normal accident?

    :(


  • #109
    Memnoch
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,276 ✭✭✭Memnoch


    i hate being cynical at a time like this, but I think the only reason people care is because this happened too close for comfort. When someone dies so near, it reminds us of our own mortality and that of our friends loved ones. For once we think, jeez, that could have been me, or my mother/father/brother/sister/friend.
    So we say we are "sorry it happened" and "feel bad" about it.
    but truth be told, i don't think anyone really cares about the life of another human being.

    600,000 civilians are reported to have been killed since the U.S. began its "anti-terror" crusade in afghasthan and Iraq. Now you tell me... do people really care about human life?


  • #110
    mike65
    Closed Accounts Posts: 88,968 ✭✭✭✭mike65


    Originally posted by Memnoch
    600,000 civilians are reported to have been killed since the U.S. began its "anti-terror" crusade in afghasthan and Iraq. Now you tell me... do people really care about human life?

    Ho-hum...show me the figures....

    No actually don't!

    Mike.


  • #111
    daveJAM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 437 ✭✭daveJAM


    Was anyone watching Sky News at 1am Sunday night/ Monday morning? In the "In Brief" Section the reporter said that "the police" knew about this 2 weeks ago!

    It seems like a mistake tho because the first part of the sentence didnt exactly fit together with the second. Almost like he misread the auto cue. Was going to wait for it to come on again but they went to the CBS news so didn't.

    Haven't heard anything about it since. Also its a lot more bizarre then some of the Flipping/Hi-jacking theories out there.

    Just wondering if anyone else witnessed this? Or did I imagine it? Could have upset a some people if the families or friends were watching!


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  • #112
    Töpher
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,483 ✭✭✭Töpher


    Originally posted by Memnoch
    600,000 civilians are reported to have been killed since the U.S. began its "anti-terror" crusade in afghasthan and Iraq. Now you tell me... do people really care about human life?

    How many of them were their own troops?

    On a serious level tho, I agree with your point. If the exact same thing happened in America we porbably wouldn't hear about it, but the Americans would react in the way most irish people did. But its human nature to worry and think of your family and friends, and yourself, when something like this happens close to home, it's just the selfish level on which the human race operates. But if we didn't work like this, we'd either have no feelings and emotions at all, or break down every time someone in china gets hit by a rickshaw*.


    *car.


  • #113
    Genghis
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,370 ✭✭✭Genghis


    Originally posted by daveJAM
    Was anyone watching Sky News at 1am Sunday night/ Monday morning? In the "In Brief" Section the reporter said that "the police" knew about this 2 weeks ago!


    I'm not following you here - what did the police apparently know about? Were they suggesting it was planned?

    I know people had concerns about the bus stop and I agree with them, but honestly, the nature of the incident was not routine - its 'freakiness' suggests to me that it could've happened at practically any bus stop. Likewise, although measures can (and should) now be taken to review safety at all bus stops along the quays, there is little we could do to prevent something so non-routine like this happening again.


  • #114
    Exit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,267 ✭✭✭Exit


    For the record, the gf tells me this story made her local city news in Canada, so it's not all that usual of an event.


  • #115
    Lump
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,984 ✭✭✭✭Lump


    Yea, but she tells you that she's been faithful to you....


    John


  • #116
    seamus.carey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16 ✭seamus.carey


    I'm disgusted by some of the postings to this topic. I'm a young Irishman currently living in France and I happened to notice the thread on boards.ie where I am a frequent visitor and thought perhaps I could find out more about the accident. I didn't expect to see some of the cynical and blatantly idiotic postings.

    First of all, the appearance of the Taoiseach had absolutely no bearing on the event whatsoever. In any country, in the time of a national accident or emergency, public figures are always present. After September 11th, G.W. Bush was one of the first visitors to Ground Zero. I'm not trying to compare the bus accident to 911 or G.W. Bush to Bertie Ahern but the accident was something out of the ordinary in Dublin and warranted his presence if only as a symbolic gesture that the Government actually care about the people. If he had been seen in the area and not turned up, he would have been accused of not caring. He can't seem to win. To suggest that he was trying to get media attention is ridiculous and to say that he stopped any rescue-workers from completing their jobs shows a complete lack of respect for their professionalism.

    Secondly lines like, "I hope I don't know anyone who died, I usually get that bus" are completely superfilious to the thread. Even if you did happen to talk to that person once, their death is not going to have a massive impact on your life. Whether you know that person or not, they are still a person and they will leave loving falilies behind.

    Thirdly, lines like the media digust me really annoy me. The media do a job, reporting on what they believe the public want to hear about. The fact that people like BrianD3 looked and posted to this thread shows that you had some interest in the story. Plus other posters have said that they left GameCON to see what happened, proof of natural human interest. Most people who pass a traffic accident have to look to see if they can see anything and judging by the reaction of the crowds of people waiting around at the scene, the same can be said of the bus accident. Its a natural human reaction for most people, gruesome and disgusting but natural.

    Fourthly, this cannot be compared to a regular traffic accident and this point can also be used to back up the extreme media frenzy. Ok, 40,000 people died in an earthquake in Iran in December, 60,000 in Iraq, 3,000 in 911 but this happened in Ireland and will thus affect us more. In regular traffic accidents, to some extent one is in control of the situation, i.e. driving. Whether the accident is their fault or not, one has some level of control over what happens. In this accident, none of the victims were in any level of control. Coupled with the fact the car-accidents happend all the time, bus accidents don't, this of course led to more media attention.

    Finally the accident involves a public service, something which people use every day, this bringing the accident closer to home and it occured in the middle of a busy city. All these factors contributed to it becoming a bigger media even that a regular car accident.

    The media report on what interests people and the fact that there have been 114 messages to this thread shows that it fulfilled its role.

    My thoughts are with those who died and are injured but also with both bus drivers, who hopefully will be able to continue with their lives.

    Sorry for my rant, been a long day...


  • #117
    Crash
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 11,210 ✭✭✭✭Crash


    Originally posted by seamus.carey
    Thirdly, lines like the media digust me really annoy me. The media do a job, reporting on what they believe the public want to hear about.


    i'm sorry but i gotta say something about this. I know relatives of one of the women that died (only realised who she was last night) and after looking in the herald i think it was seeing the piece that said "no one was around last night when we called round" kinda ****e (cant remember the exact wording) i was absolutely furious. its this kinda ****ty tabloid reporting that drives me insane. i mean it was a day since the incident and they came calling looking for a reaction. Sick ****ing bastards.


  • #118
    mang87
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,020 ✭✭✭mang87


    Yer, someone involved in this accident, some foreign people lived around the block from me. He was on the phone to his wife when he was killed, they had just bought a house in their home country and he, his wife and his daughter were moving back their next month... Jesus, this guy was cool, couldnt understand a thing he said mind you, although on holloween every year, we called in, lol he had nothing to give us so so he went back int the cubbord and found some rich tea biscuits and handed them out, he was such a nice guy... I have been around to see his wife, a few of us called in, god she is in such a state :(


  • #119
    Victor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 78,803 ✭✭✭✭Victor


    4 people were killed in Belfast in an accident today. Very little news about it. Did the Irish consul in Belfast go to the scene? Did David Trimble?

    I think the media has become bored with reporting car accidents, but likes to bash public transport because buses and trains and airplanes mean more dead people in any given incident. However, perhaps 1% of people killed in transport accidents were killed in accidents involving public tranport.


  • #120
    Lump
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,984 ✭✭✭✭Lump


    Yea it makes the public service look bad


    John


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  • #121
    daveJAM
    Closed Accounts Posts: 437 ✭✭daveJAM


    Originally posted by Genghis
    I'm not following you here - what did the police apparently know about? Were they suggesting it was planned?

    I know people had concerns about the bus stop and I agree with them, but honestly, the nature of the incident was not routine - its 'freakiness' suggests to me that it could've happened at practically any bus stop. Likewise, although measures can (and should) now be taken to review safety at all bus stops along the quays, there is little we could do to prevent something so non-routine like this happening again.

    Thats all they said! That they knew about it. Didn't expand on it. But as I said, sounds way too bizarre. Must have simply misread the autocue.


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