Krav Maga

I train twice a week TKD for E40 a month. Anything else that I might be interested in doing has to be competitive

I'm sorry but if someone is too intimidated to walk into a boxing club or similar then they've got a problem. Becoming better at fighting/self defence is going to take a lot of hard work. They need to overcome that sort of nervousness and intimidation if they ever wish to stand a chance in a fight anyway.

There's no point going to a lovely equiped gym filled with lovely people who show you nice simple moves that anyone can do in their street clothes (which to me would imply that there's not going to be much sweating and hard work going on) over a period of 12 weeks/2 days (24 hours). They'll still be the same person they were when they started the course. They won't be fitter, stronger, or faster. They won't have repeated their moves over and over so much that it's second nature anyway. I'd put my money on a boxer over them anyday.

I'm not knocking Krav Maga as a fighting system but this whole 24 hours and you'll be safe crap is bull**** in my opinion. It's highly irresponsible and, in my humble opinion, shameful to give people false beliefs when it comes to protecting themselves!

The commercialism of martial arts is ruining it for many people and doing nothing but taking their money and giving them false hopes. There are "McDojos" all over North America and they are to be avoided like the plague. I truly hope it doesn't turn out like that over here too.

Yes but the point was that KM isn't available in Ireland at the price of a pint each time. I did KM (my only real training otherwise having been in boxing) for a while in London, just to redress some of the balance;

1) The training was on-going, there was no set course you had to pay for and then when you were done you were done. There was a 4 hour induction, and then twice weekly classes running more or less indefinitely afaik.

2) People were told to wear clothes suitable for exercise, no one trained in jeans and shoes. Or a suit

3) The instructor certainly didn't encourage anyone to think they were invincible or now safe from harm on the street..but I suppose this ties in with point 1.

Let's clear it up...the problem isn't that KM is too expensive, it's that KM in Ireland is too expensive. But then what's new?

On-going and disciplined training will stand to you far better if attacked than some two day course, whatever the style being studied. If you're only going to spend two days at something then save yourself the cash and the oh-so awful experience of getting all sweaty and tired and buy yourself a book or two.

I thought I'd stick up my views of the introduction to Krav Maga I had over last weekend. This is the intensive 2-day course detailed on www.kravmagaireland.com.

Now before I get people whining about the idea of teaching a self-defence course in two days, the instructors were not trying to convince the class that this two-day session was supposed to even approach comprehensive training. I doubt anyone was under the impression that it was anything more than a quick-fix or introductory course, paring the idea of Krav Maga down to its core concepts and techniques.

On a similar token, there are people giving out about how a 12-week training course isn't going to turn someone into a ninja. A lot of people are getting the wrong idea about KM in that respect. KM isn't marketed as a full-formed martial art or a complete fighting system (and it sure as hell isn't a sport). It's designed as a quick-and-dirty, no frills self-defence system. The whole idea is to make you as much able to fight off an attacker as possible, in the least amount of time possible. Nowhere have I seen anyone claim that Krav Maga training will make you invincible after 12 weeks. Anyone who might think that way after a KM course was a danger to themselves before they even began training. As for the time frame, I'd personally take 12 weeks of KM training over 12 weeks karate/jujitsu training any bloody day.

I was one of very few people in the class with previous martial arts training - this may give you an idea of the type of people that Krav Maga is aimed at. Most people simply don't have the time to learn a traditional martial art, to spend years repeating techniques to perfection, to gain sparring, distancing and targeting skills, etc. Most people aren't interested in making a five, ten, twenty-year investment into karate, jujitsu, kick-boxing, whatever. They want something that will teach them simple, effective moves and concepts as quickly as possible that may help them if they are involved in a violent confrontation.

Krav Maga's simplicity is its best asset. While we were taught several escape manoeuvres from common grabs/locks/chokes, these were more of an addition to the core teachings. When people claim that techniques learnt in KM will stay with you for a long time, it's because the techniques are so simple that you already know them before you take the class! If you hit someone hard, it will hurt. Everyone knows this. Everyone has hands, elbows, knees - we just forget/are too shocked to use them in a confrontation. The core techniques taught in Krav Maga are palm-heel strikes, elbow strikes and knee strikes. There are also a few kicks and handy bits and pieces like headbutts, hammer blows and cup-hand-slaps practiced as well, but it always comes back to palm-palm-elbow-knee-knee. How can anyone forget something as simple as that? Most of the first day was spent practicing these core techniques on pads and focus mitts to get people used to targeting, distancing and getting power and speed into their attacks. There are no silly chambering moves, no complicated locks, no stances etc to remember. You just learn to hit your attacker very hard, very fast, repeatedly with simple, effective, easy to remember techniques. It's amazing how few people think of just beating the crap out of the person that's attacking them - go figure.

'So, I learn absolutely nothing new then' I hear the doubters complain. Well, my first rebuttal would be to ask how often you get to practice fighting? How often do you open up and beat the crap out of someone? Even a foam pad? Most people don't get to do this often, even people in regular martial arts training. Nor does the average Joe Soap get shown how to maximize the effect of a palm-heel, elbow, or knee strike. Second, the main thing you learn from Krav Maga is a mindset of sheer aggression. It's got to be a hell of a lot harder to beat up or rape someone who is going at you like a wild cat with palms, elbows and knees. If someone is trying to hurt you, and you're trying to deal with it in a timid or frightened manner, you're going to get hurt. Quite simple. If, however, you become the attacker, you could have a better chance of getting out of it alive/undamaged. Most people, when they are faced with a violent situation, will freeze up and not be able to think straight. In Krav Maga training, you are given a chance to get used to releasing your aggression, and seeing what kind of an asset that might be to you should you be attacked. Most people don't get the chance to experiment in this way in their day-to-day lives.

The course is expensive. Noone can deny that. I don't think I'll do KM in Ireland again because of this. There's no doubt in my mind that KM is a very effective way to teach self-defence, and I'm glad to have that extra bit of knowledge/experience, but my wallet is feeling awfully light after the course. My original intention of taking the two-day intensive course was as a kind of personal review of the system before considering taking a more comprehensive course - you can read all you like about a martial art or self-defence system, but there's nothing like actually doing it to give you an idea of whether it's for you or not. My now better-informed opinion tells me that Krav Maga is for me, but not at that price unless I suddenly start earning a lot more. I intend to check out courses in London to continue my KM training. I'd love to be able to reccommend everyone to at least give KM a shot, but it's too expensive in Ireland for anyone to just have a go and see what they think. That's a real shame, because I doubt anyone who tries KM can fail to be convinced that it's an effective system. But, if you have €275 lying about and you want to learn some effective fighting, you could do far worse with it.


Oh, and anyone complaining about the location of the training hall has to be taking the piss. It's ten to fifteen minutes' walk from the city centre. If that's too far to go to learn something that could potentially save your life, you obviously don't actually give a crap about your personal safety.

Sico sums the whole thing up really well there. I also would love to do it in addition to my TKD because you can never train enough for the time you might be attacked. Especially as a woman. The thought of being raped sometime is truly scary, but I hope that if it ever happens, the attacker will be the one to come off the worst.

The cost of KM is very prohibitive though. It's a pity, because I think a lot more people would give it a go if it was cheaper. As I said earlier, you can never train enough or learn too much for the day you will be attacked.

Michaelangelo, obviously you had a nasty experience as I saw your other post as well. There is no real defence against a headbutt except for ducking backwards as fast as you can. In our TKD class, out instructor places a good emphasis on self-defence, and we're often told not to be afraid to headbutt attackers. It's a nasty strike. Fortunately, I've never been at the receiving end, and I want to keep things that way.

Does anyone know an efficient block against a headbutt?

who doesn't like you because your better looking than them

I'm going to keep mum on that