Policing Smoking Ban

Ph3n0m · 18-02-2004 03:28PM #1

Since what I posted got lost in another thread, I put the following question to everyone - smokers and non smokers alike

How will the ban, which comes into effect on March 29th - be policed in such places like pubs?

seamus · 18-02-2004 03:30PM

I'll tell smoking friends to stop. That's a good start.

busman · 18-02-2004 03:48PM

Originally posted by Ph3n0m
How will the ban, which comes into effect on March 29th - be policed in such places like pubs?

My method would be if i see somebody smoking to ask them polity

Will you put that fu@kin fag out or do you want me to stick it up your @rse!

I'm sure that will work ;-)

gazzer · 18-02-2004 04:29PM

what about telling people on buses to stop smoking... it is still going on. i wouldnt be brave enough to go to the back of the bus and tell some scanger to stop. But when this ban comes in will it mean that passangers can sue Dublin Bus if the drivers dont enforce the no smoking policy??

Ph3n0m · 18-02-2004 04:29PM

so non smokers will resort to abusive language and violence - yeah that will work real fine

Villain · 18-02-2004 04:31PM

Theres not much you can do, and the police aren't inforcing it so alkl you can do is ring the number they will give out and sit and week for a week for the halth board inspectors to turn and then hope the guy or gal is still smoking;)

Dr. Loon · 18-02-2004 04:33PM

Originally posted by busman
My method would be if i see somebody smoking to ask them polity

Will you put that fu@kin fag out or do you want me to stick it up your @rse!

I'm sure that will work ;-)

Then I'll kindly put my smoke out in your eye! See! It's all going to work just fine.

alienhead · 18-02-2004 05:50PM

if its a pub, who evers in charge behind the bar. if its a club and there's bouncers they should enforce it. it shouldn't have to come to it, but of course it will.

Villain · 18-02-2004 05:54PM

Originally posted by alienhead
if its a pub, who evers in charge behind the bar. if its a club and there's bouncers they should enforce it. it shouldn't have to come to it, but of course it will.

Thats bol lox, they have to be doing it's not there fault the Government couldn't be bothered to police it correctly

alienhead · 18-02-2004 06:00PM

what about airplanes, do the government police the no smoking ban on them? no, the cabin crew do.

i understand that a pub would be tougher to police, why not just get some security staff in, they can pay em with the money they make from over priced drink.

Originally posted by irish1
Thats bol lox, they have to be doing it's not there fault the Government couldn't be bothered to police it correctly

Villain · 18-02-2004 06:04PM

Originally posted by alienhead
what about airplanes, do the government police the no smoking ban on them? no, the cabin crew do.

i understand that a pub would be tougher to police, why not just get some security staff in, they can pay em with the money they make from over priced drink.

I don't see too many 70 - 80 years getting on planes every night of the week do u?

alienhead · 19-02-2004 11:28AM

i dont see your point

Originally posted by irish1
I don't see too many 70 - 80 years getting on planes every night of the week do u?

hedgetrimmer · 19-02-2004 11:30AM

It will have to be policed by the publicans, and Minister Martin has lost so much face over this, and stuck to his guns so strongly, that he will have to ensure it is policed. The worst case scenario for him would be after all the bad press to then have the law become inneffectual.

I think to more rural you get though, the more logistically difficult it will be to enforce it, and the more it strikes me as being a publicans choice. I would certainly say that any complaints about breaches (and there will be some), will be pretty hastily followed up.

And the end of the day, the Dept. of Health will need some form of statistics proving that the legislation has been effective.

Villain · 19-02-2004 11:37AM

Originally posted by alienhead
i dont see your point

My point is people are comparing this to the bans on Airplanes cinema's etc but it's not a fair comparison.

alienhead · 19-02-2004 12:23PM

i agree, its a bigger hurdle, but generally its the same thing.

Originally posted by irish1
My point is people are comparing this to the bans on Airplanes cinema's etc but it's not a fair comparison.

Villain · 19-02-2004 12:25PM

Originally posted by alienhead
i agree, its a bigger hurdle, but generally its the same thing.

A lot bigger so it needs proper inforcing i.e. not the Health Board

alienhead · 19-02-2004 12:33PM

do you know who's liable, is it the smoker or the pub that gets fined?

Originally posted by irish1
A lot bigger so it needs proper inforcing i.e. not the Health Board

seamus · 19-02-2004 12:33PM

Originally posted by irish1
A lot bigger so it needs proper inforcing i.e. not the Health Board

Gardai who come into a pub and find someone smoking have the same powers. And Gardai do go into pubs. Isolde's Tower and 4 Dame Lane were fined recently for having people in after hours.

People should police themselves. Although it might sound ridiculous to some, the Gardai can't be 'policing' everywhere all the time. You have a duty as a citizen to uphold the law and discourage or report others who break it.
It's typical of the "I don't see the Gardai around, so it's ok" or "Everybody else is doing it, so it must be ok" attitude of this country.

Someone else came up with the exact argument - if a guy walked into a pub with a bag of cans, popped one up on the counter and began slurping away, he'd be out on his ear. What's so different about this? There's illegal activity taking place in a man's pub, he has the right to eject that person from his pub.

Villain · 19-02-2004 12:48PM

Garda don't come into the pubs too enough in my local town, oh unless there staying till 3 or 4 in the morning getting drunk and then drive home.;)

alienhead · 19-02-2004 12:48PM

thats a fair point, how about smoke detectors? seriouslly, i've head they are gonna install these on dublin buses, its the whole embarasment factor.

Originally posted by seamus
Gardai who come into a pub and find someone smoking have the same powers. And Gardai do go into pubs. Isolde's Tower and 4 Dame Lane were fined recently for having people in after hours.

People should police themselves. Although it might sound ridiculous to some, the Gardai can't be 'policing' everywhere all the time. You have a duty as a citizen to uphold the law and discourage or report others who break it.
It's typical of the "I don't see the Gardai around, so it's ok" or "Everybody else is doing it, so it must be ok" attitude of this country.

Someone else came up with the exact argument - if a guy walked into a pub with a bag of cans, popped one up on the counter and began slurping away, he'd be out on his ear. What's so different about this? There's illegal activity taking place in a man's pub, he has the right to eject that person from his pub.

Ste.phen · 19-02-2004 01:00PM

Nobody's ever considered blasting someone with a fire extinguisher, no?

"No your honour, i thought he was on fire, i mean he couldn't have been smoking, it was a pub!"

alienhead · 19-02-2004 01:10PM

desperate measures..............

but if you think about it, there really should be smoke detectors in pubs/clubs anyway, from a safety point of view. say you're in a club, and you're downstairs, and there was a fire on ground or upper level, you wouldnt find out about it til it was too late, i'm sure we've all thougt about this.

come to think of it, they must be the only indoor facilities with large croweds without em.

as for fire extinguishing somone with a cigarrette, thats dumb, the idea is to alert the staff and joe public to the offender, and the cause of the high pitched racket.

pubs would be a noisy place indeed, still, if that what it takes.

Originally posted by Igy
Nobody's ever considered blasting someone with a fire extinguisher, no?

"No your honour, i thought he was on fire, i mean he couldn't have been smoking, it was a pub!"

Doctor J · 19-02-2004 01:33PM

Ever asked a tracksuited scumbag on the back of a bus to stop smoking? Embarassment isn't a factor. So howsabout a drunk tracksuited scumbag in a pub? Is a flashing red light and a neon arrow pointing at them going to stop them. I can't see it meself :dunno:

alienhead · 19-02-2004 01:37PM

you're right, but i dont go to pubs with tracksuit knackers, do you?

Originally posted by Doctor J
Ever asked a tracksuited scumbag on the back of a bus to stop smoking? Embarassment isn't a factor. So howsabout a drunk tracksuited scumbag in a pub? Is a flashing red light and a neon arrow pointing at them going to stop them. I can't see it meself :dunno:

leeroybrown · 19-02-2004 02:03PM

The big issue with this ban is that the onus is on a publican when doing so will not have a positive effect on profits.

I'm not a big fan of publicans as they in general get rich of an overpriced product (especially non-alcoholic ones) but the possibility of having fines imposed on them in situations where they may not even be aware that smoking is going on (a lot of people would rather ring the complaint number than point the probem out to staff). It's easy to clamp down on underage drinking purely by ID'ing. Most publicans keep very good control over alcohol being smuggled in but you still see quite a bit of it in many places. Someone lighting a fag in a quiet dark corner of a pub or club on the other hand ...

Maybe in the future we'll see Smoke Inspectors ;-)

Doctor J · 19-02-2004 02:06PM

Generally, I've given up going to pubs at all, but I'm sure there are pubs somewhere beligerant wankyrs will frequent and it's unfair to expect the staff or other punters to enforce the law on those who disregard the law with spite and who hold respect for no-one.

Villain · 19-02-2004 02:07PM

Originally posted by Doctor J
Generally, I've given up going to pubs at all, but I'm sure there are pubs somewhere beligerant wankyrs will frequent and it's unfair to expect the staff or other punters to enforce the law on those who disregard the law with spite and who hold respect for no-one.

Well said, if the minister was serious about this he would have had it policed properly

kiffer · 19-02-2004 02:11PM

I fully intend to carry a water pistol and a can of fart gass.
if my hair/clothes are going to stink of your smoke then I'm going make dámn sure yours do ...
man that's going to start a lot of fights.

but really non-smokers out number smokers ...
more people have said that they'll now go to pubs more often, than have said they'd go less often...

I cant wait for the smoking ban...
If people I know are smoking I will have no problem asking them to go outside.
people I dont know ... well thats another question ... I'll point them out to the staff and see what happens ... If nothing happens the thing to do then is report them ... the bar will get fined and after that happens every few nights it's just cheaper to not let people smoke ...

as for bouncers ... I dont think they'll have any bother kicking smokers out ...

staff: please sir, you cannt smoke ...
smoker: Fook orf!
staff: ehh ok...
bouncer: get your coat and leave now.
smoker: why, I did'nt do nothing.
bouncer: you where abusive to staff ...

no need to kick him out for smoking.

Doctor J · 19-02-2004 02:23PM

I know plenty of pubs without the 'luxury' of bouncers, especially outside Dublin. Much as I agree the ban is overdue, it is ill concieved and is being implemented in a half assed fashion. It is unnecessarily going to make life a lot harder for bar-staff (not eveyone is a bar owner making big money remember).

Ph3n0m · 19-02-2004 02:31PM

So in essence, having read all the replies - no one has any idea on how this will be policed effectively then

Police going into a pub - yeah I am sure that will work especially when other more serious crimes are happening outside of the pubs

Reporting people to staff - it has been said publicans are greedy bastards, so why do they care about smokers - they are in their pub, spending money and giving it all to the publican - at the end of the day that is all the publican cares about

Reporting people yourself - all well and good , if a) the "smoke police" arrived within 5 minutes of a report b) the person in question was still smoking c) you have an honest face

The sad fact of this is, while I am a smoker, I do feel sorry for non smokers as it will prove much tougher to police this ban then anyone expects

Villain · 19-02-2004 02:37PM

"Enforcement of the ban will be carried out by 40 environmental health officers, assisted by 300 officers involved in food safety and 100 personnel from the Health and Safety Authority"

Source Irish Examiner

Policing Smoking Ban

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