Guns on Planes

Jim · 30-12-2003 11:19AM #1

Guards on airlines?

story

how long before "al quieda types" start to get jobs as these marshalls. good idea already putting weapons on planes, i know what im talking about, ive seen airforce one.

Cabaal · 30-12-2003 11:24AM

ffs!
I'm so annoyed that since 9/11 I can no longer bring my RPG and two M16's on board planes
This is another step towards the federal goverment taking our rights!

sorry, had to say that its just I watched one of those mad "evil federal Gov" type films last week about 9/11 and how the world gov did it.
I want my killed brain cells back now.

Beëlzebooze · 30-12-2003 12:04PM

As long as whatever is discharged doesn't punch a hole in the airframe, you should be ok.

Those 'gazillion volt, make you flop around like a fish' yokes should do the trick nicely.

Cabaal · 30-12-2003 12:09PM

Originally posted by Beëlzebooze
Those 'gazillion volt, make you flop around like a fish' yokes should do the trick nicely.

Tazers, plus there very cheap and you can evcen buy them on ebay, so this should save the airline industry loads of money

herbie747 · 30-12-2003 02:21PM

Jesus Christ, Americans are such cocksuckers........*sigh*....

Peace · 30-12-2003 02:25PM

why don't they just release sleeping gas into the cabin when they push the hijack button.

shag all anyone can do when they are asleep. And searching for an independant air supply would be easier that searching for weapons.

Paddy20 · 30-12-2003 03:39PM

Peace,

Have you never heard of 'Gas Masks' ?.

Anyway, I personally would feel a lot safer flying on an airliner with trained armed air marshals, who are prepared to 'take out' any would be scumbag hijacker.

P.:ninja:

Mystic Fibrosis · 30-12-2003 03:54PM

Personally, I think it's taking it a bit too far, I mean it's understandable that they believe they need protection (interesting that they only noticed AFTER a major event). But I don't like the idea of there being an armed man on a flight if it isn't me.

bus77 · 30-12-2003 04:01PM

No terrorist would be stupid enough to try and stand up and hijack a plane these days, not after sep 11 no way.
sure even the shoe bomber knew that
no, it will just be good old fashioned -no warning- bombs for the time being. Thats what all the cool terrorists will be doing this season

rmacm · 30-12-2003 04:09PM

Having guns on airplanes seems a bit idiotic to me. What happens if a round pierces the airframe??? bad s*it more than likely. It's also a pretty confined space to be discharging a weapon.

bugler · 30-12-2003 04:52PM

They'd be armed with low velocity weaponry, to avoid any fuselage punctures. I'm not a fan of militarising anything, but I think there may be a case for having armed air marshals. I've heard some of those opposed to their introduction on the grounds that it may result in two idiots blasting at each other in an airplane. But what is the alternative? Letting one of the idiots kill everyone on board? In case someone has somehow forgotten already, the current threat to airlines is not of the traditional terrorist kind i.e carried out for leverage for other demands or for publicity. Al-Queda just wants to kill and to hurt. If they get control of a plane then you needn't worry about innocent people on board being injured, because they are all already dead along with probably more on the ground.

Admittedly the fact terrorists could determine who was the marshal they could then seize his/her weapon is a huge worry. There's no right or wrong answer to this I suppose..

Kold · 30-12-2003 05:05PM

I bet they won't allow anyone of Arab descent to be one of these marshalls...

Agent Smith · 30-12-2003 07:04PM

Guards on airlines?

yes please, i get so bored on planes:D

rmacm · 30-12-2003 08:38PM

Originally posted by bugler
They'd be armed with low velocity weaponry, to avoid any fuselage punctures.

I'd agree with this but guns are just plain idiocy in an airborne situation like a passenger jet. As was suggested earlier tasers would probably be the way to go. Anyway thats just my .02 cents

Cheers
Rory

Barry Aldwell · 30-12-2003 09:59PM

The marshalls would be armed with 9mm pistols firing subsonic ammunition, or possibly .22lr pistols. The bullets would be soft nosed, meaning they would rip a human body to pieces, but not pierce the fuselage.

Capt'n Midnight · 30-12-2003 10:30PM

Anyone got stats on El Al Hijackings ??

oeNeo · 30-12-2003 10:35PM

Originally posted by Kold
I bet they won't allow anyone of Arab descent to be one of these marshalls...

And with good reason too.

BuffyBot · 30-12-2003 10:41PM

Stupid stupid stupid idea - specifically on flights from countries whose airport security is a throrough as the UK etc - other countries, maybe...

I for one feel less safe with this idea than without

Barry Aldwell · 30-12-2003 10:51PM

Originally posted by BuffyBot
Stupid stupid stupid idea - specifically on flights from countries whose airport security is a throrough as the UK etc - other countries, maybe...

As a man whose only pair of shoes (that I wear) is a pair of steel capped boots, I can tell you that their security is not as airtight as they think (No, I don't smuggle weapons onto planes for fun, I have just undergone enough pat downs to know that they don't check everywhere)

Originally posted by BuffyBot
I for one feel less safe with this idea than without

They won't just hand some random stranger a gun and tell them to shoot any terrorists they see. The marshalls undergo security and background checks, and are trained specifically to fight in the confined space of an airliner

Lump · 31-12-2003 01:03AM

Originally posted by Barry Aldwell
As a man whose only pair of shoes (that I wear) is a pair of steel capped boots, I can tell you that their security is not as airtight as they think (No, I don't smuggle weapons onto planes for fun, I have just undergone enough pat downs to know that they don't check everywhere)

They won't just hand some random stranger a gun and tell them to shoot any terrorists they see. The marshalls undergo security and background checks, and are trained specifically to fight in the confined space of an airliner

Just like yer man that went down for life for murdering Holly and jessica was vetted, before working in the school?

I'm up for it, but who is america to tell anyone to do anything. If aerlingus doesn't want armed guards on their flights, it's there choice.... in the end of the day, in fact eh, it is there plane.

The argument stands.... there shouldn't be the need. If people were checked properly going onto a plane. FFS I flew a few weeks ago and the hot airhostess didn't ask me any security questions, just cause I spoke nicely to her. Also there were a family of nackers standing behind me.

John

oeNeo · 31-12-2003 01:17AM

Somehow I think a little more effort would go into checking the background of an air marshal than that of a school care-taker.

Anyway I'm all for the idea!

Lump · 31-12-2003 01:23AM

ssuuuuuurrrreeeeee

I'd rather not risk it...

John

seamus · 31-12-2003 01:47AM

"We will notify airlines when we have information on a specific flight," he said.

*cough*

So, you won't need air marshalls, unless the US decides that your flight is at risk. So instead of simply cancelling the flight, and dealing with the threat before it reaches 500mph and 20,000m, let's put armed forces on to actively 'cleanse' the plane of any terrorists and civilians who happen to get in the way (they're well trained, but nobody is perfect). :rolleyes: IIRC, the US had already made a similar claim about air marshalls being present on 'high-risk' internal flights, well before 11th September. Effective that.

It also raises certain jurisdiction issues. If an Air Marshall was present on a flight, say from LA to Dublin, and shot a potential 'threat' (let's not forget that some people who have just been drunk and abusive have been harshly treated in the US) over Irish territory, do we have the right to jail this Marshall for murder due to the use of excessive force?

What got me though was a soundbyte on Sky News from some American spokesman who said something almost like "We are in the middle of a war on terror, and passenger aircraft are the front line". :rolleyes: You just want to shake every member of the US Government until they cop the fluck on.

A slight sideline, but apparently, there was a former member of the elite Sayeret Matkal (a top-secret Israeli counter-terrorist unit), sitting in front of one of the terrorists on one of the flights that hit New York. They reckon by sheer stroke of luck on the part of the terrorists, he was one of the first to die on the flight, as the terrorists stood up and killed one or two people to scare the rest of the flight into obedience. Otherwise obviously, they wouldn't have stood a chance. Of course, there also exists the possibility that they found out he'd be there and prepared for it - so now they know that air marshalls may be present, they can use their own intelligence to determine who they are, where they'll be sitting, and plan to disable them before they take the plane.

Just my 2c...

BKtje · 31-12-2003 05:48AM

im all for trained air marshalls but without fire arms.
Werent the september 11 terrorists armed with just knives? (or am i deluded here)

A marshall brings a firearm on board, the terrorists know who he is and manage to nick his gone (by whatever means). Suddenly instead of terrorists with knives than can only do so much damage you got a gun wielding maniac in a confined space at 20,000m. Guns and airplanes just dont mix.

Those of you who say, well they managed septemer 11th with just knives. i'd like to point out this was a first and therefore the flight crews probably thought, "He only wants some ransom, we'll just do as he says and no one will get hurt". Well no flight crew is gonna be stupid enough to think that again. They just wont give the terrorists access to the flight deck (or cockpit).

Make the cockpit/flight decks secure and even a ****er with a gun isnt gonna crash that plane. (course you'd need to secure all the vital electronics and stuff as well then)

In short, im all for air marshalls with tasers or even knock out darts (they maybe slow acting but however long it takes ur terrorist will be out in what? 10-15mins.) That way as well if the highly trained marshall (god forbid) misses at least he'll only stick the poor sod to sleep. (tho a lot can happen in 10-15mins)

Anyways my rant over

Cabaal · 31-12-2003 07:02AM

Originally posted by B-K-DzR
im all for trained air marshalls but without fire arms.
Werent the september 11 terrorists armed with just knives? (or am i deluded here)

Yeah basically, they were using box cutters, even with a air marshall on the plane if there's say 6 terrorists there's a bloody good chance they can take him out just with knifes..ah . box cutters.

BuffyBot · 31-12-2003 11:20AM

As a man whose only pair of shoes (that I wear) is a pair of steel capped boots, I can tell you that their security is not as airtight as they think (No, I don't smuggle weapons onto planes for fun, I have just undergone enough pat downs to know that they don't check everywhere)

Yes, but they do enough checks that satisfy me. There is only so much you can do, and this is a step too far

They won't just hand some random stranger a gun and tell them to shoot any terrorists they see. The marshalls undergo security and background checks, and are trained specifically to fight in the confined space of an airliner

Ah, you don't say? :rolleyes:

Still doesn't mean I want or desire them on flights I take

Lump · 31-12-2003 12:13PM

Well I think now if any clown jumped up with a knife he'd have most of the passangers to deal with. I for one would jump up and tackle him. I know saying that is easy, but I've often thought about it mid flight. You'll always have the element of suprise. I'm sure if on person jumped up others would join, and you're bound to have some tough cookies out of what 200 + people on a flight.

Wouldn't it be better for one person to get injured then for thousands to die. But if there is a gun onboard, your fúcked.

John

Walter Ego · 31-12-2003 06:11PM

The airlines and airports go to so much trouble scan/search passengers to make sure that guns, knives etc are not smuggled aboard.

You take off, then the meal comes. First class passengers are given real steel steak-knives and real glasses. Nobody appears to have noticed this.

Most large aircraft are divided in sections, first class, club class, business class and economy. Jumbo jets even have an "upstairs". How many sky marshall per plane? It could end up like the gunfight in the OK Corrall.

Given the amount of media attention this topic has attracted any self respecting Al Qaida member would look for a softer target, the New York Subway, any major road junction, a MacDonalds food processing plant.... The list is endless.

Victor · 02-01-2004 10:24PM

Guns are a hazard to the passengers, not the aircraft - you can loose several windows and still maintain air pressure.

Originally posted by Kold
I bet they won't allow anyone of Arab descent to be one of these marshalls...

So what are Egypt Air and Jordanian Airlines meant to do?

http://starterupsteve.servepics.com/funny/newfie.jpg

Lump · 03-01-2004 12:24AM

Get bombed?

John

Kold · 03-01-2004 05:38PM

Originally posted by oeNeo
And with good reason too.

Surely that could qualify as racism

Guns on Planes

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