EU to remove Irish as offical European Language

tba · 11-12-2003 07:45PM #1

Dont know if this is true or not, but I got this E-mail today.

A chairde,
Following the accession in May, the EU shall have 20 official languages.
Gaeilge (Irish) will not be included. Now whether you like the language
or
not, this is an insult to Ireland and an erosion of yet another part of
our
national identity.

Let me put it to you this way, how would the French or Germans react if
their languages were not included??? How about the Brits??
This is also the FF government, yet again, giving the fingers to 380,000
of
Irelands citizens (who for the most part are incidentally are located in
the north and west of Ireland).

Now this might seem like a trivial thing to you, but if they are willing
to
and get away with ignoring a member country's official language, what
else
will Ireland be rail-roaded into?
It's up to you. Is it OK for us to be second class citizens in
Europe????
Will that do us, like it did
all the generations before us??

I encourage you all to sign and forward this petition. Who know's?? The
longest journey begin with one step......

Sign the Online petition here

Sarky · 11-12-2003 07:48PM

Yes, but you see, France, Germany and Britain actually speak French, German and English, don't they?

In my experience the only people I've met who don't speak Irish because of the grant bonus or because they're Irish lecturers are American students.

tba · 11-12-2003 07:54PM

Originally posted by Sarky
Yes, but you see, France, Germany and Britain actually speak French, German and English, don't they?

In my experience the only people I've met who don't speak Irish because of the grant bonus or because they're Irish lecturers are American students.

I realise that. it is however part of the constitution

Article 8 of “Bunreacht na hÉireann” [Constitution of Ireland], enacted in 1937, states that:

1. The Irish language as the national language is the first official language.

2. The English language is recognized as the second official language.

3. Provision may, however, be made by law for the exclusive use of either of the said languages for any one or more official purposes, either throughout the state or in any part thereof.

Reference

TheSonOfBattles · 11-12-2003 07:55PM

Yea, cause we all know that whole Gealtacht thing was just a lie made up by the goverment to make us learn Irish in School for the last century or so. I mean native Irish speakers, what a joke.

I may not want to learn the language, and think it should be optional in school, rather than compulsory, but I know some people do actually love it, and learn it and use it, so for them...signed.

Woden · 11-12-2003 07:57PM

its not saying that irish will not be the official language of ireland just that it won't be an official language of the EU big deal

Töpher · 11-12-2003 07:59PM

Perhaps I'm being narrow-minded here, and I do not want to cause any arguments, so bare in mind these are just my views and opinions.

France/Germany/Engand all have HUGE majorities of people who speak their national language, if not all citizens speak it. English is one of the most spoken languages world wide.

I for one have never ever overheard a conversation in Irish, or engaged in one myself. After the Leaving Cert I have never used Irish ever again.

Perhaps this is a step in the direction towards one unified national European Language? And lets be honest, IF that were to ever happen, Gaelige would not play any sort of a role in it.

Just because the EU dont recognise it as an official language anymore doesn't mean you have to stop speaking it.

Or maybe I'm just an idiot.

Just out of interest, are any other countries having official languages officaially un-recognised?

tba · 11-12-2003 08:03PM

Originally posted by Einstürzende
France/Germany/Engand all have HUGE majorities of people who speak their national language, if not all citizens speak it. English is one of the most spoken languages world wide.

I for one have never ever overheard a conversation in Irish, or engaged in one myself. After the Leaving Cert I have never used Irish ever again...

...Or maybe I'm just an idiot.

Just out of interest, are any other countries having official languages officaially un-recognised?

According to the 1996 Census, 1.43 million persons aged three and over, returned themselves, or were returned, as Irish speakers in the Republic. This constitutes 43.5 percent of the total population.

Reference

Of course you are not an idiot you are entitled to your opinion, and welsh is also being ignored.

Sarky · 11-12-2003 08:28PM

Most of that 40 odd percent is probably kids stuck in school, waiting for the day they can forget about it.

Irish is practically a dead language. Blame the way it's been taught for the past 50 years or so.

Töpher · 11-12-2003 08:30PM

Meh, I think it would be safe to assume that the most exposure to Irish many of those people get is deciphering the signs on the buses.

I'm sure to alot of people, getting a leaving/junior cert qualifies them as a speaker. Whether or not they are regular speakers of the language is a different story. I haven't spoken Irish in years, but I did for my LC, therefore I'm a speaker. Because I can speak Irish, but I don't. I think 1.1m of the 1.4m may have been adopting that approach!

Funny that, when I've been in Wales (several times) I've heard alot more spoken Welsh than I have Irish in this country.

fozzle · 11-12-2003 08:41PM

I used talk in Irish as often as in English in 1st year in college but since I've drifted from those particular friends and stopped doing subjects through Irish my standard and level of use have decreased deplorably.
Still feels weird to go home and not have bilingual bank machines though...(the joy of BOI in Galway!)

Sarky · 11-12-2003 08:43PM

Bilingual bank machine always struck me as funny and pointless. Numbers are the same in any language...

fozzle · 11-12-2003 08:44PM

I still use the Irish option, just to make it feel loved...

tba · 11-12-2003 08:45PM

Bilingual bank machine always struck me as funny and pointless. Numbers are the same in any language...

its all in the accent

Big al · 11-12-2003 08:56PM

good, now all we need is for them to stop teaching it in schools and start teaching a langauge that people can use from day to day

Silent Bob · 11-12-2003 09:16PM

Originally posted by tba
Is it OK for us to be second class citizens in
Europe????

How exactly would this make us 'second class citizens'?

And on another note:
Personally I reckon that if Irish was to make any attempt to move with the times it would be more relevant. It is impossible for me to have a discussion about my work in Irish, it completely lacks appropriate vocabulary.

tba · 11-12-2003 09:19PM

Originally posted by Silent Bob
How exactly would this make us 'second class citizens'?

Quote of a quote there you will have to take that up with the author of the E-mail.

Tusky · 11-12-2003 09:19PM

well its not REALLY a part of our identity as none of us speak it , the only people who do speak it do so to make a point

nesthead · 11-12-2003 10:17PM

i think theyre dead right to. its been 110 years since the Gaelic revival and still only a minority speaks Irish.

If a real effort had been made to make it our first language as DeValera wanted id probably be
A. Speaking irish today (which I cant at all) and
B. actually care that aren't making one of the recognised European languages.

they should, its our own fault for not making it a stronger part of our culture, strong enough to merit study by other Europeans. If the majority of us dont bother with it why should anyone else in any other country?

all theyd have to do to make Irish really widespoken is to make ALL primary schools irish speaking, and dont bother to teach the grammar until second level, as irsh was never a widely written language anyway to try to learn its grammar when your very young is quite difficult. maybe im wrong there, maybe someone who studies linguistics would say that you must learn to write a language as you speak it but i would think it would be relativly easy to pick up the written end of a language once you know how to speak it(not forgetting the fact that you know the phonetics and and alphabet of English/other latin/germanic languages)

and in 10-15 years, problem soved. every student has some if not full fluency in Irish. all the people i know who went Gaoilschoils(sp.?) are fluent in Irish.

Capt'n Midnight · 11-12-2003 10:35PM

Just a reminder that more people speak Catalan than Danish...

Bard · 11-12-2003 10:49PM

This is disgusting if it's true ... as it seems to be true alright, according to this page on the Conradh na Gaeilge web site.

Ugh!

spongebob · 11-12-2003 10:56PM

More Irish people speak skanger day to day than Irish.

"Anto , wha iz dah french **** sayin 'bout uz , bleedin bollix , deadly burd he haz wih him tho "

Lets make it our official second language and bump Irish to third and then set up a cultural institute to market it abroad and get students into areas where it is widely spoken to learn it properly.

M

skipn_easy · 11-12-2003 10:57PM

Originally posted by Big al
good, now all we need is for them to stop teaching it in schools and start teaching a langauge that people can use from day to day

Are you saying that Irish isn't a language that people can use day to day? I know lots of people that use it on a day to day basis. Instead of dropping irish from schools they improve the way its taught so that more people are comfortable using it on a daily basis.

Silent Bob
It is impossible for me to have a discussion about my work in Irish, it completely lacks appropriate vocabulary.

Is it possible to discuss your work 100% in any language other than English? I think you'll find that people who speak irish regularly can discuss any subject they like, perhaps using very technical words here and there from another language if the word doesn't already have an irish translation.

OfflerCrocGod · 11-12-2003 11:02PM

That's because the danes speak better English than us Irish - 60% of books sold in Denmark are English, there are fears that there language will actually end up dying because youngsters dont see that much Danish stuff on TV and in books http://europa.eu.int/comm/education/policies/lang/languages/lang/europeanlanguages_en.html
Read that and weep it's the same story in the Netherlands and Sweden. Let's respect the dead and bury the Irish language for good!.

spongebob · 11-12-2003 11:05PM

Originally posted by skipn_easy
Are you saying that Irish isn't a language that people can use day to day? I know lots of people that use it on a day to day basis. Instead of dropping irish from schools they improve the way its taught so that more people are comfortable using it on a daily basis.

I use it day to day but I still recognise that Skanger is unique and charming and exportable. Give Anto and Deco a few Eu translating jobs . We irish are entitled to our unique lingusitic slot in the EU so we may have to be creative to retain it.

Deco , any chance dah burd will tawk ta me if I give her d'eye man, howiya luv, any chance uva roide like ya no wha'Ímeeyun loike ya no!

M

OfflerCrocGod · 11-12-2003 11:06PM

Originally posted by skipn_easy
I think you'll find that people who speak irish regularly can discuss any subject they like, perhaps using very technical words here and there from another language if the word doesn't already have an irish translation.

A real language like say English???, well why go to the bother then, just speak English from the start to the end and cut the bullsh1t; at least that way there is a chance that the other person will understand you instead of thinking your on drugs.

spongebob · 11-12-2003 11:09PM

Originally posted by OfflerCrocGod
A real language like say English???, well why go to the bother then, just speak English from the start to the end and cut the bullsh1t; at least that way there is a chance that the other person will understand you instead of thinking your on drugs.

Skanger is a foreign language to many Irish people even though they "Think" they are speaking english, a delicious irony what ? As for the Dutch and the Spanish they'll simply believe what we tell them.

M

Ronaldo7 · 11-12-2003 11:09PM

good, now all we need is for them to stop teaching it in schools and start teaching a langauge that people can use from day to day

BUMP BUMP BUMP!!!

Id have much rather have extra French in school rather than stinking Irish. I dont use it. Never have used it. Never wanted to use it either.

skipn_easy · 11-12-2003 11:23PM

Originally posted by OfflerCrocGod
A real language like say English???, well why go to the bother then, just speak English from the start to the end and cut the bullsh1t;

Well why don't we get rid of other languages like french because there isn't a french translation for every technical word out there and you may end up borrowing a word from another language?

Töpher · 11-12-2003 11:32PM

Originally posted by skipn_easy
Well why don't we get rid of other languages like french because there isn't a french translation for every technical word out there and you may end up borrowing a word from another language?

Because several million people speak French? Compare that to the 20 that speak Irish?

skipn_easy · 11-12-2003 11:36PM

but i was referring to offlers post which suggested that if you couldn't say what you wanted in 100% the language you were speaking you shouldn't bother using it at all.

Pepe LeFrits · 11-12-2003 11:57PM

Hurrah!

EU to remove Irish as offical European Language

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