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Starmer is in big trouble. If he goes, could gov fall - impact on the messy world we are in now

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,529 ✭✭✭aidanodr


    I think thats a good summation?

    brexit graveyard 2.jpg


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,700 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    No, Starmer lied through his teeth to get the LP leadership gig and then blundered his way in almost everything he touched since he became PM.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,464 ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    I would say that it's mostly fair. The man made some appalling judgement calls though and that must be factored in. The business with Mandelson alone is damming enough.

    Imo, the weirdest thing was his habit of enduring political pain for no benefit.

    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,115 ✭✭✭aero2k


    Just to introduce a bit of levity - this is a comment below an Unherd article by Mary Harrington:

    KIA STARMA – URGENT PRODUCT RECALL NOTICE

    Following extensive customer feedback, disappointing performance data and a growing number of concerning incidents, KIA has announced the immediate recall of the entire Starma range.

    While the Starma represented a minor cosmetic improvement over the previous Corbyn‑fibre edition, customers recognised that several legacy issues remain stubbornly embedded in the design.

    Key defects identified include:

    Unpredictable Steering: The vehicle has a tendency to drift left whenever confronted with difficult terrain. Sudden braking and unexpected U‑turns also proved hazardous.
    Severe Blind Spots:  Often incapable of detecting obstacles visible to virtually everyone else. Some customers opted for Kia’s proprietary Wishful Thinking system, but this hasn’t improved visibility.
    Permanently Open Intake Valve:  The intake valve appears jammed in the open position, allowing unregulated inflow far beyond the engine’s intended capacity. Attempts to close the valve trigger warning lights, shrill beeping and an error message warning “This Function Is Not Compatible With British Values.”
    Flat Exhaust Note: Exhaust tone remains flat, passionless and oddly bureaucratic. Judged among the poorest in its class. Several users reported that even silence would constitute a meaningful upgrade.
    Limited Colour Options: Available finishes include Rosette Red, Islington Green and Diversity Rainbow. No other colours currently offered, despite repeated customer requests for something recognisably British.
    Outdated Testing Standards: Continued reliance on obsolete EU testing protocols has resulted in repeated backfires whenever exposed to real‑world conditions.
    Town car:  Designed almost exclusively for metropolitan use. Rural customers reported that the vehicle appeared actively hostile to their existence.
    Inadequate Boot Space: Boot capacity remains insufficient for the quantity of historical baggage routinely carried by the vehicle and its occupants.
    Backward‑Facing Navigation:  Navigation software displays an unusual tendency to focus on previous journeys rather than the road ahead.
    Corbyn Emissions: Emissions testing revealed unexpectedly high levels of Corbyn particulates, particularly when cornered.
    Fault‑Diagnosis Loop: Engineers investigating electrical faults, punctures, engine seizures and missing wheels were surprised to receive identical diagnostic reports. Regardless of the malfunction, onboard systems identify “Far Right” as the root cause.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,637 ✭✭✭Floppybits


    I can't believe how wrong it has gone for this Labor government. I know they inherited a mess from the Tories but they have made such a mess themselves that they are making the Tories look appealing.

    It's been mess after mess, how anyone in their right mind would even consider giving Mandelason any sort of job is beyond me, I wouldn't give this guy a job of cutting grass.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,301 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    Who would want that job? (Every politician, of course - they’re weirdos.) Starmer wasn’t charismatic but he wasn’t awful either and he delivered a massive majority. There were no policy catastrophes on a Brexit or Iraq level and no personal scandals. The Mandelson business was embarrassing but a product of desperation from dealing with Trump. The basic problem is that the public remain in a sour mood about the state of Britain. I can’t see Burnham’s honeymoon lasting long.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,093 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Taxing the rich isn't the solution to everything. But not taxing the rich is a big cause of a lot of the **** that has gone wrong

    The influence of billionaires and now trillionaires is almost entirely negative and corrosive to the public good

    Taxing the rich to stop them from accumulating such oversized political and economic clout is essential if we want to re-take back our countries.

    6 years ago when the UK was talking about Covid supports, the number was £300 billion in income supports, which was 3 times the wealth of the worlds richest man at the time (Jeff Bezos)
    6 years later, the world's richest man is valued at over £750 billion


    Ban billionaires



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 34,009 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    The "Rich" pay most of the tax that countries collect.

    Musk's wealth is basically entirely on paper. He didn't suddenly become massively wealthier in any material sense with the SpaceX IPO (though a great many of his workers did). He is probably more likely to lose 200B in that valuation in the next year then to increase it.

    I am no fan of billionaires and trillionaires existing (though frankly, I have no problem with Bezos being obscenely wealthy given the overall good Amazon has brought to day-to-day living). I certainly don't think we have struck the right balance on how to tax unrealised gains, but it is also very complicated and achieving that balance will almost certainly require global cooperation as in the case of Corporation Tax floors. The kind of Global cooperation via the G7 or OECD that is utterly derided by vast swathes of those who demand we tax the rich more…

    At the core of the problems in the UK though, the fact they don't tax people enough really isn't it. Though the Starmer govt did make some movements in this direction by putting VAT on private schools…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,055 ✭✭✭OscarMIlde


    Would you not have issues with Bezos' wealth given the conditions his warehouse workers and delivery drivers operate under?

    Amazon as a business model is great, but is his profit margin so tight he needs to resort to draconian targets for his workers?

    “Never argue with an idiot. They will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.”


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 34,009 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Would you not have issues with Bezos' wealth given the conditions his warehouse workers and delivery drivers operate under?

    It is a fair question. But I think that he should be 100% obliged to obey labour requirements and those requirements should be stringent but the market (i.e. us) continually demand that we do not actually give a crap about that and want things as cheaply as possible. This is one of the many areas where politicians are actually significantly more conscientious then the public.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,093 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Thats what they want you to think.

    All of the research is that the super wealthy pay a much much smaller proportion of their wealth in tax over their lifetimes than anyone in the middle class.


    The super rich invest their wealth in buying assets. The fact that those assets are controlling shares in the companies that own everything is beside the point. If my company owns a billion dollars worth of assets, I can say 'my wealth is just on paper, i'm just an incomeless pauper who needs to claim benefits (which is exactly what Jeff Bezos actually did)

    Ban billionaires



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,093 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Amazon rose to the top by market manipulation. They got first mover advantage by being in early when online sales were just becoming mainstream, and then they abused their power in the market and were not properly regulated.

    Amazon had a clause that the price on Amazon had to be lower or equal to the lowest price the seller offered anywhere else. If they were found offering a cheaper price elsewhere, they were delisted from Amazon.

    This is incredibly anti-competitive and Amazon has abused this power to the point that they are so dominent that they're able to continue the enshitification process. Have you searched Amazon for anything recently? Its swamped in thousands of listings of the same counterfeit goods full of fake reviews. Unless you already know exactly what you're looking for, you'll be sold some knockoff product

    Ban billionaires



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 34,009 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Yes, they pay less proportion of their wealth. But we don't generally tax wealth, we tax income. There are multiple reasons to try and rebalance this but also multiple reasons to not fully tax wealth (particularly unrealised wealth). Any kind of wealth tax will absolutely need to be a multinational approach.

    Like Amazon is an unqualified massive wealth and employment generator as well, it is not like he is some kind of leech.

    Interestingly the UK has more tech unicorns than the rest of Europe combined. There is a balance to be struck on this, but they are massive wealth generators as well (which still directly leads to increased State capacity for funding) but let us not pretend it is an easy solution.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 405 ✭✭MeisterG


    That's the funny thing - the UK is great for IP. Its the next stage of bringing into to mass market that is its weakness. That's the nut to crack - but the UK seems to have at least that. It's how to encourage new businesses that will turn the economy around.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 24,093 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    I know we don't tax wealth, thats the problem. The reason why the wealthy pay less income tax is because it is easier for them to find ways have no 'income' (through retained corporate earnings, deferred capital gains, holding company structures) while clearly amassing wealth. Pointing out what we currently do now is not an argument for what we should do to redress the obvious problem if consolidation of wealth and power into fewer and fewer people.

    People have 3 reactions when they hear about wealth taxes

    1. I don't want to have to pay my own wealth in tax
      1. Nobody is seriously proposing wealth taxes on ordinary people, the proposals by the likes of Gabriel Zucman are on taxing wealth above a very high level centimillionaires and higher, high enough that almost nobody will ever have to worry about paying it themselves. And high enough that anyone paying it, will have no problem affording to pay it and would remain extremely rich.
    2. Taxing wealthy people is too hard
      1. Its extremely hard when you don't try to do it at all. Its very simple when you keep the rule 'every year you file a tax return listing all of your assets and the value of each on a given date, and you pay an amount equivalent of x% of that in tax. Apply this rule to people worth more than 100 million euros with penalties for people who fail to file their self assessment. These people can easily afford the admin and accounting required to complete the returns.
    3. Taxing wealthy people is unfair on them because they earned it somehow
      1. Its the opposite. Beyond a certain level, they make more passive income than they could ever hope to spend, they use that income to buy assets that increase their wealth and power where it becomes corrosive and they use that wealth and power to make everyone else's lives materially worse.

    Ireland already has an unrealised gains tax on eft investments that require them to be paid after 8 years. This is targeting the wrong people. Instead of doing this, there should be a wealth tax on all investments and assets but only for people who are genuinely wealthy and not the people paying the top rate of tax at just over 44k per year.

    And the Tech Unicorns are just the next bubble waiting to pop. Allowing these billionaires to amass so much wealth that they gamble with investments completely consequence free, such that the valuation of assets is completely distorted… it harms us all when the bubbles inevitably pop and ordinary people's pensions and savings are wiped out while the banks and billionaire classes, who don't pay their share of tax inevitably hoover up the bailouts funded by the tax payers

    Ban billionaires



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,926 ✭✭✭blackbox


    Any increase in your wealth between year 1 and year 2 should be treated as income for tax purposes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 405 ✭✭MeisterG




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,962 ✭✭✭csirl


    Neither Bezos or Musk are from tne UK.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 34,009 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Its extremely hard when you don't try to do it at all. Its very simple when you keep the rule 'every year you file a tax return listing all of your assets and the value of each on a given date, and you pay an amount equivalent of x% of that in tax. Apply this rule to people worth more than 100 million euros with penalties for people who fail to file their self assessment. These people can easily afford the admin and accounting required to complete the returns.

    That is not what people mean when they say taxing wealth is hard.

    If you tax wealth that way as one country you will simply end up with those people making sure they are not tax resident in your country.

    It is not like this hasn't been tried. There is a reason almost everyone has moved to taxed fixed wealth like property instead.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,020 ✭✭✭✭kippy


    Elon Musk:

    "

    I have no income, all of my money is actually in share options, therefore I shall pay no tax as I have no income.

    I'd like to buy twitter (Insert name of whatever he would like to do here), initially I'll say I'll sell some of my share options to finance it, but I'll eventually get the money loaned to me at 4/5% or better on the strength of the shares I own in various companies to buy twitter (or whatever).

    Can't be taxed on shares but can use for collateral, never need to sell them, never taxed.

    "

    This is the kind of behaviour that the supper rich can do (and there's a hell of a lot more loopholes and options avaiable to them that are not available to mere mortals.

    All the while they gain more power and influence over the political class who ultimately continue to make policies that suit the richer and try to make the rest of us fight it out against each other to keep us occupied.

    Look, its not an easy solution. "Taxing the rich" can be an easy vote getter but a lot of people have genuine fear of the reach of the rich.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,926 ✭✭✭blackbox




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,337 ✭✭✭Cyclingtourist


    Britain has become more authoritarian under Starmer.

    The proscription of Palestine Action, an activist group prosecutable under existing law, as a terrorist organisation was a step towards fascism.

    Not sure his replacement will be any better.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,724 ✭✭✭Economics101




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 45,464 ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the LORD your God.

    Leviticus 19:34



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,301 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    Letting the megarich make a monkey of the tax system devalues its legitimacy for all. Why should anybody pay if they don’t? It’s one of many reason why ordinary people are losing faith in politics.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 405 ✭✭MeisterG


    Not sure why a scheme this simple has never been applied before



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,485 ✭✭✭SupaCat95


    Definately agree. Liz Truss was interviewed that there was an unseen hand moving the agenda. Kier Starmer had met Bill Gates 6 months before taking office.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,337 ✭✭✭Cyclingtourist


    That's because you've been brainwashed to accept activism = terrorism.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 34,009 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    There is an absolutely colossal amount of activism that is not treated the same way. Turns out breaking into military bases and quite literally using violence to advance political means can cause problems.

    The proscription was silly, but the UK have been overusing terrorism laws for decades at this point and a slip into fascism it isn't. You just happen to agree with the people they targeted this time.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,337 ✭✭✭Cyclingtourist


     the UK have been overusing terrorism laws for decades at this point and a slip into fascism it isn't. 

    So it's a gradual slip into authoritarianism according to you?

    I say it's a move towards fascism.



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