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M6 - Galway City Ring Road [planning approved]

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 1,739 ✭✭✭Consonata


    https://www.n6galwaycityringroad.ie/sites/default/files/media/Volume%201%20-%20Design%20Report.pdf

    The Design Report on its own website is my example?

    3% - East/West - regional traffic, no interaction with city. This is “Bypass” traffic
    5% - West/Urban, stays west of Corrib
    5% - East/Urban, crosses Corrib
    7% - West/Urban, crosses Corrib
    20% - Urban/Urban, crosses River. “City” traffic.
    20% - East/Urban, stays east of Corrib
    22% - Urban/Urban, west of Corrib. “City” traffic.
    18% - Urban/Urban, east of Corrib. “City traffic.

    So 3% of commuters actually stand to benefit from this road, or near enough that makes no difference.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 98 ✭✭remfan


    that’s not exactly ideal, and what I was getting at was that plan for Salthill, and perhaps the council overly influenced it’s design, was a joke. Seems like the perfection trap is influencing some posters here, the reality is that we need both the bypass and better facilities for sustainable travel. Even Hilary Clinton came out recently in favour of Trump’s Gaza rebuilding plan. Because we have 2 groups with their heels firmly dug in we have seen little real progress on either front in 30 years.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 46,248 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    The Salthill cycle path was a perfect example of Galway City Co pandering to one cohort of road users. They had a fully workable option which would have resulted in many people using the cycle path but as it would have meant parking spaces would have to move, people were up in arms spouting bogus claims (including the nonsense about emergency services) and the council quickly capitulated.

    It isn't a perfection trap. Currently the plan is build a big road which will have negligible impact on traffic but will cost a huge amount. Then have a look at sustainable travel knowing that options are reduced because of the new road.

    Had a comprehensive plan been concieved, Galway could have looked at a proper sustainable setup which took loads out of cars meaning that the need for a new road was reduced. The data shows that most people driving are doing so for relatively short distances and could easily avail of public transport, save money on car ownership and, in all likleihood, save time. But no, they're now going to get more years of traffic congestion costing each driver more and more money, time and physical & mental wellbeing as they sit in traffic.

    What is being offered is a solution whereby people are being given the option to drive or a crappy public transport setup or a dangerous cycling setup. Are you seriously going to believe that any subsequent sustainable options will reduce the attractiveness of the massive capital spend on the road? The road will remain the dominant means of travel simply because so much was spent on it. Galway will not receive meaningful funding from the Exchequer for rail or bus upgrades.

    There is also the issue of this road being designed as all things for everyone. It will be a distributor road but also a bypass. It will somehow reduce traffic yet will open up new areas for housing. It simply can not do all of these if it is to be successful.

    You already know all this because you've been told it many times. So, what exactly is it that makes you think that things will actually improve for transport in Galway?

    As for your reference to Gaza??? 🙄

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,532 ✭✭✭KrisW1001


    The main objections to the ring road is that it has been over-specified, designed in a way that makes it useless for anything except private car commuting, and then crippled with too many closely-spaced junctions. It looks like they took Cork’s N40 and decided to build that. N40 is a failed design, but at least it has the excuse of never having been designed like that from the outset: N40 was planned out at a time when there wasn’t money to provide both a bypass and a local distributor, and also when car ownership was extremely low, so the one route was given two often contradictory roles: increase local access between the south city suburbs, and allow through traffic to avoid local traffic. Everything spent on N40 since has been an attempt to engineer our way out of this initial mistake; the road that exists today is the result of a series of short-term, lowest-cost attempts to balance the traffic needs of commuters, commercial/industrial users and long-distance travellers, all joined together and treated with the sticking-plaster of “more lanes” later on.

    If you were starting a city ring-road distributor/collector (the only function of N40 that M6 can claim), then you would not base it on N40. But they did.

    I still think the solution was not this mega-road, but rather two to three distributors: one green-field following the M6 route, and another running east-west in the city (mostly a widening/realignment/re-configuration of N6 and the Old Dublin Road). Each of those would have a continuous dedicated bus and cycle lane each way, plus one or two traffic lanes. Run at 80 km/h, junctions mostly at grade every 2 km for local access, with bus priority. These roads would form the core of a high quality bus network, which would create a faster path in and out of the city than just sitting in a car, and in future could be used for a light-rail system. Oh, and of course, CPO the corner of the racetrack - none of this tunnelling nonsense.

    All of that would cost less than this new ”motorway” to nowhere, and it would have a chance of actually fixing Galway’s traffic problems. It could also be delivered in phases, rather than waiting for one big silver bullet. But the M6 looks impressive, and that, I fear, was the reason why it was pushed forward by the council.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 98 ✭✭remfan


    The O'Malleys, the Kerins, and Shane Foran have been confirmed as 3 of the 4 JR applicants, and I hear that the 4th litigant is coming from another another local challenge being brought by affected residents. I don't beleive that Friends of the Irish environment have lodged a JR but they have asked some questions see https://www.friendsoftheirishenvironment.org/press-releases/an-coimisiun-pleanala-chairs-public-endorsement-of-galway-ring-road-questioned



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 98 ✭✭remfan


    "You already know all this because you've been told it many times." Sounds like been back in school in the 70's. Silly me I should know better. I have already made numerous posts on what I believe could be done by having both the bypass and sustainable travel measures. I don't expect anyone to agree with me, irrespective of how manys time they have been told! And if you read my post the reference to Gaza was an example of a mature mind not being caught in the perfection trap. I am not commenting on Gaza per se or comparing the much more serious situation there with a discussion on a bypass.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,189 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    I don't know much about FOIE but have to say I agree with them there. A judge publicly celebrating the outcome of a trial up for their judgement is dicey territory. I've very little trust in ACP at this stage, myself.

    It does look like FOIE are saying "we now have no legal basis to challenge this decision".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,981 ✭✭✭?Cee?view


    This is encouraging. The first two are genuine in that their homes are close to the proposed road. Hopefully their issues can be settled without delay. The third, Foran is well known as a local cycling “activist”. He’s representing himself it seems, which suggests that he lacks funding and also that his case will not be argued with any degree of competence.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,476 ✭✭✭markpb


    Your comment about Foran is exactly what people said about the woman who took a JR against the Clongriffen bus corridor and unexpectedly won.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,981 ✭✭✭?Cee?view


    Possibly, but she was a concerned local resident with a genuine concern. He’s an obsessive with an all too obvious and long running anti car and anti development agenda.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 779 ✭✭✭GBXI


    Why will Galway not receive any meaningful funding from central government for transport infrastructure if the road is built? Doesn't seem to be the case in Cork. Surely logic would dictate that as you build and grow you make it more likely that more building and growth will happen. Galway should have the ambition to be the economic hub of the West of Ireland. It should be aiming to be a city of 250k with all the services that come with that. Talking about an 18km road for years and years is the most embarrassing part - just build it and move onto the next crucial piece of critical infrastructure.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,443 ✭✭✭Westernview




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,189 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    TBH buses in Dublin are struggling to get funding right now



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,592 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    I agree with that aim - but this road is NOT going to allow Galway City become a 250k City! The Original Bypass for sure of the 00's would have allowed such ambition - this RING ROAD unfortunately will not.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 98 ✭✭remfan


    The 4th case appears to be another set of residents via BC Law LLP and by Damien Keaney BL, looks like their properties are on or near the proposed route. So, 3 sets of locals lodging because of their properties and Shane Foran on climate grounds, although while well intentioned Shane's track record is not great in terms of success. Doesn't appear that the Friends of the Irish Environment have lodged one, even though they have written a letter about their concerns to ACP, which would have no material bearing on the granted planning approval. These 3 sets of residents have plenty of resources to fund their challenges so one never knows, not sure how Shane can fund his and as he does tend to represent himself in these matters it may explain the outcomes. Having said this I am really surprised that there is not one from the Friends of the Irish Environment or maybe Shane is fronting for them?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 98 ✭✭remfan


    I see on the Galway CoCo land take for the scheme and also on the various planning maps a strip of land north of the proposed junction with the N59, it runs from the junction almost to the river, any idea what this is for?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,189 ✭✭✭hans aus dtschl


    Hard to understand you exactly here. The new N59 junction will be to the West of the N59, really a Letteragh Road junction, with a new link road to the N59. Is that link road the strip of land you mean? Otherwise, loads of strips of land for drainage around there, see map on Page 6 here: https://www.n6galwaycityringroad.ie/sites/default/files/media/Figure%2011.5.101%20to%2011.5.115.pdf

    Or maybe you mean the drainage outlet on drawing 112 there, from Bushpark junction to the river (page 12)?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,400 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    Yeah I'm really surprised that Friends of the Irish Environment - aka Sweetman etc - didn't lodge a JR. Weren't they instrumental in the whinging back in/around 2010?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 98 ✭✭remfan


    I was looking at the ACP doc that shows this (which is more North East than due North)

    image.png

    and also the Galway CoCo land take, could be a drainage channel

    image.png


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 98 ✭✭remfan




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,523 ✭✭✭Unrealistic


    I've only read the bare details but I thought Shane Foran's objection was more about compliance with road standards (on the feeder roads) than climate related?

    I'm not very familiar with his litigation history. The only two I'm aware of are his case against the evening street closures in the Westend last year and the ongoing case against Bus Connects. For the street closures, he withdrew the case after the Council adjusted their plans to allay the concerns he raised, which sounds like a successful outcome to me. What other cases has he taken that have given rise to your assessment that his track record is not very successful?



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