Is Irelands neutrality stance in WW2 unfairly criticized? (see Mod note 217)

From reading Hastings' books, they are quite complex ones in that they are not typical academic histories and contain a lot of small stories that focus on individuals and their parts in various events. Some academics probably hate his books because he writes in a very accessible manner having been a journalist.

Monsarraat, having been on ships during the war, knew the feelings of his comrades, who were dozens of nationalities, which were quite natural.

"The crews of almost every warship and merchantman that sailed past the Irish coastline in the war years felt a surge of bitterness towards the country which relied on Britain for most of its vital commodities and all its fuel, but would not lift a finger to help in its hour of need."

It was not just as they passed Ireland though that they would have thought of Irish neutrality / lack of Treaty ports - many a victim who died a horrible death in the cold waters on the edge of the mid-Atlantic gap must have cursed the lack of air cover which they otherwise could have had. While Dev was flolicking with Nazi Party member and German Diplomat Hempel, being entertained by tales of what was happening in the Slave labour Nazi Concentration Camps and Extermination Camps. Must have built up a great admiration for the designer and founder of the death camps, Hitler himself, when he dressed up and went to express his condolences on his suicide, the only Prime Minister in the world to do so.

Churchill's bitterness seems to be more to do with Irish independence and him looking at the imminent decline of the empire, India became independent 2 years later in 1947.

His line that history will find few parallels because Britain never laid a hand upon us "though at times it would have been quite easy and natural" doesn't stand the test of time to put it mildly.

His assertion about what they would have done if not for the "loyalty and friendship" of NI was unnecessary. Britain had jurisdiction over NI, its just a fact.

Way back on this thread the meeting between Aiken and FDR was referenced and the latters dismissal of any possible threat of invasion from Britain yet here we have Churchill offering justification for that very option.

Churchill also orded the Black and Tans into Ireland during the War of Independence. And the US had a much greater influence on his actions in WW2 so any move aganst a neutral Ireland would have had major ramifications.

@casey jones "Way back on this thread the meeting between Aiken and FDR was referenced and the latters dismissal of any possible threat of invasion from Britain yet here we have Churchill offering justification for that very option."

Just to add, Montgomery, in his memoir, said he was commanded to prepare the 3rd Division for an invasion of the South, around Cork and Cobh. Considering his views and participation in Ireland in the war of independence, had the invasion gone ahead we would have had a return of the brutality of the Black and Tan era.

It was only a provisional contingency plan for the Ports, and the objective would have been to seize them to prevent Nazi Germany from establishing a U-boat or Luftwaffe foothold there, and to allow the Royal Navy to use the critical deepwater ports for Atlantic convoy protection. Same as they were used during WW1. The Americans had a major seaplane base at Cobh during WW1, it was used to patrol for German submarines etc in the Atlantic. Would have saved Allied lives in the Atlantic during the war, maybe even shortened the war slightly for the millions of unfortunate people in the Nazi death camps in Europe, but in any case none of the Allies laid a hand on us.

It was the Germans who dropped about 50 bombs on us, sunk a higher % of our merchant shipping than the Allies merchant navies suffered, and who sent captured Irish seamen to slave labour Nazi concentration camps.

A thread that would have petered out after a page or two has been brought on a wild ride by a single posters mad conspiracies and hatred for certain historical figures!

I agree with you there. Even in the past number of posts we had mad conspiracy theories that the British were going to invade us, and rock22 said " we would have had a return of the brutality of the Black and Tan era". The hatred for Churchill, who offered us talks about a U.I. and who ofen said he wanted a U.I., is unreal - a few posts ago FrancieBrady said " A not often talked about legacy of Winston's because folk are now embarrassed by their colonial pasts." What has that to do with Irish neutrality in WW2?

So far, it has been established the facts are, because of our neutrality none of the Allies laid a hand on us.

It was the Germans who dropped about 50 bombs on us, sunk a higher % of our merchant shipping than the Allies merchant navies suffered, and who sent captured Irish seamen to slave labour Nazi concentration camps.

Another appalling feature is poster arguing points/claims NOBODY made. Nobody said the Allies laid a finger on us. Completely disingenuous debating.

Whilst I have no problem with Hastings using Monsarrat as a source due to his experience, at least acknowledge that it's his fiction you're basing the quotes on!

Monsarrat was not just a "sub-lieutenant", he rose to the rank of Lieutenant-Commander, and was on convoys during the war, so he knew a bit of what he was talking about.

"the crew of every merchant and other allied ship that sailed past the coast of Ireland during the war years felt a surge of bitterness towards the country that relied on Britain for most of its vital commodoties, and all of its fuel, but would not lift a finger to help it in its hour of need."

Apologies, I meant Hastings should have acknowledged he was quoting from fiction, not you.

An 'opinion' that is evidentially and demonstratively wrong as a considerable finger was lifted despite neutrality to help the Allied cause.

It is in fact proof-positive of the opinions of Hastings reviewers that he is too often victim of his own biases.

The quote does reflect the deep anger felt by many Allied sailors of dozens of different nationalities towards the loss of the use of the treaty ports, as it cost thousands of lives and many ships and their cargoes. About 3000 Allied ships were lost in the battle of the Atlantic. It highlighted the friction between British reliance on Allied merchant shipping for survival and Ireland's refusal to grant port access so plane coverage could at least stretch further in to the Atlantic, for longer.

And at the time we relied on England for most of our vital commodities and all our imported fuel.