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Jeffrey Donaldson steps down as DUP leader after being charged with historical sex crimes -*Read OP*

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Comments

  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 17,600 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Is that it then?

    Who determind her fitness (or lack thereof) to stand trial?

    If she has a miraculous recovery from her mental illness in the future can her conviction be revisited?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,997 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    I think the Pastor and his wife giving opposing testimony was a very important factor. Both said the victim was crying, when Donaldson said she wasn't.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,870 ✭✭✭Quitelife


    He won’t need to worry about the border in the Irish Sea for a while !



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 61,107 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    No. She is in the clear as regards a criminal conviction here, and into the future. Doctors/psychiatrists determined her fitness to stand trial



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 688 ✭✭✭claregal1


    What punishment does his wife receive now if she can't be sent to prison?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 61,107 ✭✭✭✭walshb




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 688 ✭✭✭claregal1




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,436 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    Her involvement in the "trial" was just bizarre and make fcuk all sense.

    Before it started it was decided she couldn't be found guilty of anything or face consequences



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 61,107 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Yup….her mental health/health precluded her from being able to stand trial, hence they had to allow her "trial" to be of the facts only, with no chance of a criminal conviction or any criminal punishment



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,721 ✭✭✭✭gmisk


    Hopefully Eleanor eventually gets what's coming to her as well.

    Is he barred from wearing his wee fish for life now I wonder?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 235 ✭✭Terence Rattigan


    is it possible she was “given immunity “ as her evidence was crucial to getting the scumbag convicted?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 61,107 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    She wasn't testifying against him….she, too was pleading not guilty (albeit in a trial of facts)…she did not actively engage in the trial



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,088 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    There were 3 (maybe 4) psychiatrists who gave evidence that she was medically unfit to stand trial. So she faced a "trial of the facts" where she can be found to have done what she was accused of but can't be found guilty.

    I never heard of a trial of the facts and the judge said it was the most googled term in NI last week.

    I'd be cynical enough but that's what the court found to be the best course of action so what can you do?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,638 ✭✭✭Miniegg


    From what I understand they found she aided and abetted the crimes, but her mental state precludes her from getting a fair trial.

    Hard to understand it though, plenty of people get convicted despite their mental state. V strange.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,088 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    She Wasn't eligible to be found guilty or not guilty. So she won't be sentenced as she wasnt/couldn't be found guilty.

    I found it very strange that she could give evidence in the trial but couldn't stand trial. But, I admit I know almost nothing about the law so I presume it's all above board and legal. Just seems contradictory to a lay man.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 7,887 ✭✭✭Allinall




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,422 ✭✭✭✭8-10


    I was a juror on a similar case and honestly it could have gone either way. In the end the judge accepted a 10-2 verdict and there was no way those 2 were budging and there were others that held out until the very last minute, I thought it would be hung

    Not having physical evidence is extremely difficult to overcome when it comes to historical abuse as you're basically assessing if you believe them that something happened, and believe in their memory of what happened, and tie that to the specific charges, location, dates of alleged crimes, and also make sure that it's beyond reasonable doubt and not just on the basis of probability

    The judges instructions were clear on this and absolutely gave cause for some of those jurors to pause. They seem to have deliberated about the right amount of time - not rushing but not dragging out. I reckon it was clear cut from the evidence and hopefully they are excused from future service. Good job from prosecution olso



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,088 ✭✭✭✭El_Duderino 09


    You're Right. I thought she gave evidence at the trial but I checked and took audio recordings from her Interviews with police when she was arrested and they played them to the jury.

    I mistook that for her giving evidence. It makes more sense that she couldn't give evidence at trial.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,847 ✭✭✭Choochtown


    And yet her solicitor was permitted to give a summing up of her defence which came immediately after her husband's solicitor had his few hours of summing up. Mrs Donaldson's solicitor's summary was of course very biased towards Jeffrey being innocent.

    I'm glad justice prevailed in the end but it seems very unfair that Mrs Donaldson's solicitor could potentially influence the entire verdict re. Jeffrey by sewing doubt in the minds of the jury when she technically was not at risk from a conviction.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 221 ✭✭thenuisance


    I wonder whether, had the mental health issues not been surfaced earlier, any evidence she gave contributing to her husbands convinction could have been contested on the basis of her mental health. It may have been one of these difficult decisions that prosecutors have to make to ensure conviction and justice for the victims.

    I guess that it also means that she will not be placed on the sex offenders register and will probably not be held in a secure mental health facility that provides treatment for sex offenders. The victims may have an option of private prosecution but I suspect they will not take that given what they have been through.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,861 ✭✭✭scottser


    She'll be a pariah. Could you imagine living the rest of your life knowing that all your family, colleagues and friends now despise you and won't touch you with a 10 foot pole? She is guilty of aiding and abetting a child rapist. That sort of fall from grace coupled with an ongoing mental health condition is a suicide risk. She might not have been punished but she's not laughing about it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 61,107 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    I don't think she ever would have been placed on the sex offenders' register, as there was no evidence or belief that she ever engaged in any physical acts. Her crime was aiding and abetting, a crime she can not be found to be guilty of. Maybe the register can have persons on it that never actually physically committed sexual offences. I don't know



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 61,107 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Yes….her punishment will be in her head till her death!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 135 ✭✭Steady1


    "1999–2008: The period of offences committed against Complainant A, which included gross indecency and indecent assault"

    Complaint B offences appear to have started before he was married and possibly not the ones witnessed by his wife.

    The timeframe would only rule out his daughter in one of the two cases.

    Post edited by Steady1 on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,763 ✭✭✭✭billyhead


    How did he get near them I.e was he babysitting them?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,436 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    I imagine "trial of facts" will be the new go to attempt to get away scot free from crimes.

    It makes absolutely no sense.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,861 ✭✭✭scottser




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,027 ✭✭✭✭Oscar_Madison
    #MEGA MAKE EUROPE GREAT AGAIN


    As a former juror myself, I felt there was enough to “tip the scales” in favour of the prosecution namely- The wife’s statements around what she “saw” and didn’t “see”- she essentially said she suspected some abuse had happened, without actually saying those words and Jeffrey’s own letter and apology for something so mysterious he couldn’t tell us what he was apologising for 😀.

    I think without those two pieces of evidence, we may well have seen one or two jurors hesitate with a guilty verdict. But my own view of the two victims evidence was, it was strong clear and very measured- they stated only that which they could remember - that to me made it all the more believable .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,950 ✭✭✭✭Cluedo Monopoly


    A vile individual. It was clear he was guilty. He should have owned it when the victims finally had the courage to stand up to the monster. A long sentence I hope.

    What are they doing in the Hyacinth house?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,399 ✭✭✭golfball37


    Until he gets a Fáilte from the new guy in a new uniform in 15-20 years time!



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