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Liverpool FC - Talk /Gossip/Rumours 25/25

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,805 ✭✭✭✭Fitz*


    Would you prefer to play Gravenberch & Szoboszlai in midfield with a new RW who scores goals?

    Or a new DM alongside Szoboszlai, benching Gravenberch and have Chiesa/nobody playing RW?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,827 ✭✭✭✭TitianGerm


    So you'd be happy to lose Gakpo and have Chiesa and Rio as our only two wingers?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 36,784 ✭✭✭✭~Rebel~


    Barcola's a bit more of a left sided fella (though can do a job right), but totally agree with the point - if we lost Gakpo we'd be very light on attackers on both sides.

    We need a DM, but we've a gaping hole at RWF, and if Gakpo left he'd definitely need to be replaced on the left too.

    I'd keep Gakpo though, even as great as Barcola is, he's of a very similar style to Rio and Munoz (pace!), while Gakpo offers something a bit different, and can be a terrific player when used right.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 438 ✭✭CajunSurprise


    Well we have Munoz who can play left or right and it’s looks like Diomande is the next target for the right while Wirtz can also play on the left Rio can also play on the left so you are being very disingenuous by using Chiesa/nobody.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 438 ✭✭CajunSurprise


    Who did we just sign and where does he play while the club also paid over 100m for a player who plays on the left for his country so you to are being disingenuous using Chiesa



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 36,784 ✭✭✭✭~Rebel~


    If Gakpo leaves, he needs to be replaced. Munoz is super raw, Rio is super raw, and while Wirtz can play there it's firmly as a starting position from which he'll roam inside. Like, we'd be so so much weaker there than the days of Diaz, Gakpo and Jota as options there.

    And for the right, great if we get Diomande, but until he or someone else joins, we've nothing there.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 438 ✭✭CajunSurprise


    And there is no point in having all that attacking flair if the midfield can be walked through like it was last season. Wirtz has to play and if he is part of a two man midfield a DM is more important than a left winger. A Proper DM is the most important signing after Diomande/ Right winger.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 36,784 ✭✭✭✭~Rebel~


    Nobody is saying we don't need a DM. We do. But the question asked was 'if this attacker leaves, would you be happy with this other attacker as replacement'… because a replacement would be needed. A DM is ALSO needed. We don't need to pick between an attacker and midfielder, we need both.

    Wirtz also won't be part of a 2 man midfield, at very least he'll be the most attacking of a 3 man midfield, with 2 from Gravenberch, Szoboslai, Mac Allister, and the new lad behind him.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,805 ✭✭✭✭Fitz*


    Who are the current senior RW players at the club.

    Not players who can fill in there. Fill in is last resort, not starting point for the season.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,421 ✭✭✭✭8-10




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,827 ✭✭✭✭TitianGerm




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,316 ✭✭✭Appletart Upsetter


    Wirtz seems to play his best stuff when he's positioned wide left with the freedom to roam inside. That's where he's played for Leverkusen and plays for Germany.

    I wonder where Iraola sees him starting?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 36,784 ✭✭✭✭~Rebel~


    For Leverkusen that was as a left number 10 though, with Grimaldo at wing-back outside him pushing on all the time. That can work for sure, but if you're playing with 4 at the back then you're losing all your width and your threat in behind by playing him out there cause he's always going to drop central. With Tah, Kimmich, and Schlotterbeck solid in defence Germany have been freeing up Brown to push forward as a winger on that side (and Sane down the right) so they're solving it that way.

    So I don't like him on the left in a 4-3-3, I think we've suffered when he's played there, but if we were to play with 3 at the back with, say, Munoz and Frimpong tearing up the wings, then he could play in that left 10 role for us. Ideally I'd see him between the lines in an AMC role behind either a strike partnership (Isak and Ekitke) or behind a 3 like we've had before. Just need a strong athletic pair behind him to make that work.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,316 ✭✭✭Appletart Upsetter


    I just haven't been convinced when he starts centrally in the Premier League. But let's see what a new set-up and manager can do for him.

    But he's definitely an option on the left with Kerkez bombing on ahead of him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 36,784 ✭✭✭✭~Rebel~


    That can work perhaps, as long as Kerkez has the support from midfield and defence to allow him to push forward that much, which he definitely didn't have last year. Kerkez would need to bring much more of a goal threat too… if one of your front three is dropping so far back, the overlapping player has a lot of responsibility to fill that space and produce — the year Leverkusen won the league and got to the EL final Grimaldo had 12 goals and 20 assists. A back 3 like that Leverkusen side might actually work with our current team though.

    I've not liked Wirtz on the left for us so far, we just lost more than it was worth on that side - tbh I thought Wirtz was at his very best for us playing central for those few months from around November onwards. The main tricky thing with him is that he can only be as good as the players he's linking with. He's not an individualist, he needs to be in the middle of knitting other people together so if they're bad, he looks bad too. That was the biggest issue this season for him I think.

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 431 ✭✭redoctober


    Yeah. It's a conundrum. You would think something like this:

    DM

    Grav Szob

    Wirtz

    Isak Rio/LW

    In that type of scenario you need a lot of width from full-backs to compensate. Otherwise we'll end up very narrow. Alternatively, you could play Wirtz as a number 10 supporting the striker:

    DM

    Grav Szob

    RW Isak Wirtz

    There may be variations on this with Grav or Szob dropping to the bench during the season. It's just really hard to see what our best 11 is with Wirtz accommodated. Cos we seem to lose out somewhere else no matter what. We end up with a lopsided attack. The vision surely had to be using the wing-backs to compensate. So if we end up with one winger and the rest of the width from wing-backs, then so be it as long as it works I suppose.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,011 ✭✭✭Ottoman_1000


    Yep, I think there was genuinely a belief that we could turn Wirtz into an out-and-out No. 10, playing off and feeding a world-class No. 9 in Isak, with all the width coming from the full-backs.

    Looking back, it was probably short-sighted, but it wasn't completely out of nowhere either. The Premier League has fully committed to this modern mid- and low-block style, but teams have taken it a step further. They're not plugging the gaps with old-school workhorse defenders anymore. They're filling them with 6ft-plus athletic freaks who can run all day, recover at ridiculous speed, and absolutely thrive in transition.

    The game has become brutally direct once an attack breaks down. Teams are springing forward in numbers the second they win it back. Years ago, if a team sat deep, it was usually just hoof-ball up to a lone striker and hope he could either win it or hold it up until help arrived. That's not what we're seeing now.

    This version is far more aggressive and far more dangerous, and I think it caught Liverpool completely off guard last season. If you remember the first five games, even though we were winning, it was all a bit gung-ho. There was loads of space everywhere and it always felt like a matter of time before we got punished for it.

    The problem for me is that Slot never really seemed to come to terms with what he was up against because he'd convinced himself that this No. 10 plus attacking full-backs setup was going to be a game-changer. When it became obvious it wasn't working as intended, we ended up caught between two ideas.

    That's why I don't think we ever really developed a clear identity or much variation in how we played. We spent the rest of the season trying to be a bit more compact and controlled, but in doing so we moved away from what Slot originally wanted the side to be.

    The bigger issue was that he never looked fully convinced by the adjustment himself. It always felt like he was managing around a problem rather than embracing a new direction. When a manager doesn't fully believe in what he's asking the players to do, that uncertainty eventually seeps onto the pitch as well.

    That's why, for all the results we got, there were long spells where it felt like we were searching for an identity rather than building one.

    I honestly don't know how to fit Wirtz effectively within our side. But I do know it needs to happen.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,266 ✭✭✭Talisman


    In that scenario I would question why Victor Munoz was signed. Bringing in two new players for the left side won't leave much playing time for Ngumoah unless the intention is to send him on loan.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,266 ✭✭✭Talisman


    There's plenty of money in the transfer pot. The transfer fee for Munoz would have been covered by the insurance payout for Jota.

    Now that PSR has been replaced by the SCR regulations, there will be no more stockpiling cash and then splurging every few seasons. The club has to reinvest revenue in the team the season after acquiring it.

    It has been estimated that Liverpool have a budget of over £300m plus the insurance payment and any additional sales revenue for this transfer window.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,805 ✭✭✭✭Fitz*


    I think Munoz might have been hurriedly signed early in the window because the club could convince him that he would be a first choice signing. Before the club actually sign 2 more wingers to sign as first choice RW & LW, 'relegating' him to rotation option on both sides, along with Rio. 4 pacey widemen.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,805 ✭✭✭✭Fitz*


    I had always assumed that any insurance payout would have only covered the wages, which the club are committing to Jota's family anyways.

    Was there an additional payout?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,805 ✭✭✭✭Fitz*


    A very Salah-Firmino link up last night.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 14,228 ✭✭✭✭Electric Nitwit


    The goal scorer is a free agent this summer, exactly the sort of signing we should be looking at 😋



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,088 ✭✭✭SodiumCooled


    I think we need to be careful if we are relegating Rio to fight for first sub rather than starting - he will be out the gap to a team who will not be afraid to start him I feel. I font disagree there is an argument for not overplaying younger lads but nowadays it's hard to keep them happy when they see people of a similar age starting particularly on the continent. I'd also be a bit surprised if Munoz wasn't signed as a starter.

    I would have assumed they would be insuring players against their value as an asset also no? E.g. If they go out and spend 100m on a player and he has a career ending injury a few months later they would have to be protected against that surely?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,893 ✭✭✭John arse


    No you would have the players actual value insured as well.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,266 ✭✭✭Talisman


    The payout from the club to Jota's family wasn't insurance related, there's a death-triggered payout clause in the contracts of all players at the club.

    I had read that the insurance company disputed Liverpool's insurance claim but it was resolved earlier this year. One of the financial heads on X said that the club received a £30m payout from the settlement which is more than twice the value of the player's contract.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 431 ✭✭redoctober


    Agree on Gakpo. I think we should hang onto him unless we get a very generous offer. He's a decent player and a good option from the bench. As you say it's good to have different types of options too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,266 ✭✭✭Talisman


    Former academy player at Man City, Felix Nmecha would be a home grown option for beefing up the midfield.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,186 ✭✭✭Bacchus


    My 2c. Gakpo should be going nowhere unless crazy money is offered. He is hugely talented and is a great, versatile attacking option. He's exactly the type of attacking player we need to help with rotation over the season. Munoz and Rio are plenty for the LW position IMO. Raw, yes but they're not going to improve playing 2nd and 3rd choice to a new senior signing (3rd and 4th if they are directly competing with Gakpo also on that left wing). Add Wirtz as a "leftish" option too and we've good options on that side.

    The #1 priority has to be sorting out the RW. I'd be happy enough with just one signing there, and Chiesa (and Munoz) for rotation. I'm hoping Chiesa can find a new lease of life under Iraola. After that it's about shoring up LB and DM with depth in quality. Anything else is a bonus as far as I'm concerned… RB and FWD being the next areas I'd look at but I really want to see if Iraola can bring some youth players along… don't think we have any strong LB prospects there though?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,805 ✭✭✭✭Fitz*


    In a world where Rio, Munoz, new RW, new LW are the only wingers at the club, I don't think Rio would be starved of football. Even more so if Munoz is also used as the Isak back-up.



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