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Manna ceasing drone delivery flights

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,924 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    Aside from the emergency services (which I think would be a great use), what else would you view as a valid use the average person could avail of that wouldn't make it an utter nuisance or clog the sky with drones?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 416 ✭✭carfinder


    Medicine?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,613 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    (clogged) You'd swear the sky was as full as the M50. I've seen one maybe two today. All in the distance.

    I don't think there is business case for it. Fast food was the low hanging fruit. That's hardly a daily thing for most People.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 56,327 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Was just chatting to my mother. She reckons she's seen far fewer recently. She'd put it down to the novelty wearing off. I've obviously no idea if that's actually what was happening.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,613 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Ireland a Tesco has popped up in the app now, a little too late it seems.

    They mostly fly in good weather. We had a wet start of the year and lots of high winds. Lots of days they aren't flying.

    This weekend I think it's free delivery. But seen hardly any of them. Maybe it's the cost of living.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,084 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    But removing the demand won't fix the issues, it will just leave them without income.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 56,327 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i wasn't arguing for removing the demand for them, so not sure if that point was for me?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 200 ✭✭Jackben75


    they are dependent on investor money, there is no way they were making anywhere near a profit, its going to fail everywhere unless they make bigger drones for emergency services only which won't be as frequent - people may accept that as a necessary service



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,723 Mod ✭✭✭✭CatFromHue


    Has anyone heard one themselves?

    Manna asked Trinity to do a report on their noise levels and this was the findings

    Manna1.jpg Manna2.jpg

    So not nothing by any means at the customer site but equally, if these numbers are true, not that bad either and for a short duration too. At their base hub that would be a different story as there would be a lot more activity there during the day but also they wouldn't be hovering there too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,160 ✭✭✭RoryMac


    I love in Blanchardstown and my kids order from them the odd time. They can be noisy enough when they're dropping of food, think the neighbour cutting their grass, but it lasts 30 secs.

    They are barely noticeable flying overhead, the noise interference is greatly exaggerated iIMO.

    I've seen complaints online today that the drones ruined a meal someone was having last night with friends. The person didn't respond when it was pointed out that deliveries ended at 2pm yesterday.

    I think the government should have looked to regulate the use of drones rather than sit on their hands. Maximum noise levels, restrictions on cameras, flight paths etc could all be regulated for. But now there is apparently 50 people out of a job and potentially decent startup business having to move abroad to try build their business.



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  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 56,327 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    i have heard they replaced blades on the drones recently to reduce noise levels, but have been at back garden family events in the last couple of years where on at least two occasions, they killed conversation - on flyover, not delivery - while they passed over.

    the graph above shows hovering delivery at a volume equivalent to being in the same room as a vacuum cleaner (high 70s dB) but then states high 60s for the same context?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28,196 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    Another thing, if I understand correctly a drone large enough to haul food will need the operator to have a license.. as they are commercial operators so I wonder how many of these people operating drones have em.. are the IAA doing any sort of spot audits ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,613 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    IAA authorised them..

    https://www.iaa.ie/media/2021/01/07/new-aviation-regulator-supports-drone-industry



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,613 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Dunno why. They aren't loud enough when at height and are past in a few seconds. By the time you'd locate it, it would be disappearing.

    Anyway they are gone now.



  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 4,743 Mod ✭✭✭✭Ozymandius2011


    We're in danger of losing our reputation for light touch regulation that built the Celtic Tiger economy. We also lost the Amazon plant in Dublin a while back due to unavailability of a power supply.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,613 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    The reality is this wasn't a sustainable business.

    Irish reputation for lax regulation and enforcement survives intact.



  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 56,327 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Not sure whether you're suggesting that as a good or bad thing!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 416 ✭✭carfinder


    The government did have a public policy and regulatory framework for drones but this was trumped by local concerns in the form of a planning refusal by the local council. Our government is afraid to make tough decisions in the national interest in case they upset someone. The passenger cap debacle at Dublin Airport being a recent case in point and only now being rectified - with a mob of nimby's claiming oppression



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 29,965 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    The people who are saying "the noise/disruption isn't a big deal" aren't thinking of the bigger picture.

    It may not be a big deal now - but imagine a scenario 5 years from now where your garden is being overflown multiple times an hour by these things or even more frequently if you happen to live in a busy urban area. You might think differently then.

    With more of them in the air, the potential for accidents or collisions increases too. I'm sure it would be great to have bits of drone falling in the garden, maybe damaging the car etc, and good luck trying to figure out who the bits belong to!

    Right now these things are something of a novelty, but if they gained widespread acceptance you'd have other companies like this one jumping in to deliver all sorts of trivial nonsense to people

    Losing this company's services is no loss at all and hopefully it'll discourage others as well.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,924 ✭✭✭✭o1s1n
    Master of the Universe


    Did you not read the first line of my post? That's what I was getting at with 'emergency services' - getting medicine to someone in an emergency by drone would fall under this. I think that's a great idea.

    Thats not going to result in a sea of drones over our heads like Amazon drone deliveries would.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,160 ✭✭✭RoryMac


    I'd agree in principle, but I'd argue the bigger picture is that drones are going to be using our skies so the best course of action is to regulate for this and enforce limits on noise, flight paths, camera use etc etc.

    We should have limitations in place before Google or Amazon introduce them here and the government bend over backwards leaving us in a worse situation



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 29,965 ✭✭✭✭_Kaiser_


    Yep I'd agree with all of this as well.

    Unfortunately though we know that our Government are almost entirely reactive, and something like this certainly won't appear on the radar until a big company like the 2 you mention start up operations.

    Even then any response will be heavily influenced by lobbying from same companies. No doubt the Government ministers and ministries will defer to the IAA and local authorities to make the decisions for them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 41,974 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Such as?

    Apart from the ridiculous crap about vital life-saving drugs getting there five seconds sooner (but who's going to administer them?)

    I'm partial to your abracadabra
    I'm raptured by the joy of it all



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,343 ✭✭✭✭SuperBowserWorld


    You can get your burger and ozempic delivered at the same time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 41,974 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Which completely ignores the nature of the noise - frequency, repetition etc - it's not just the level of noise which is annoying

    I'm partial to your abracadabra
    I'm raptured by the joy of it all



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,343 ✭✭✭✭SuperBowserWorld


    I don't think road noise is normalized. Noise causes a lot of health issues. This is another reason why people get of our dodge and go to the countryside.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,161 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    I do think vital medications probably does make sense in certain countries where they're huge well spread out landmasses but I'm thinking more like Australia, Canada or the US. Equivalent scenarios in Ireland aren't really a thing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 5,284 ✭✭✭thomil


    Kesimpta - It's a drug used amongst other things to slow down the progression of multiple sclerosis. It is self-administered on a monthly basis using a single use "pen"-type injector, but requires chilled storage and a certain self-discipline on side of the patient, as you need to stick to your monthly rhythm for the drug to work. If you know anything about MS, you'll know that brain fog is one of the symptoms of that disease, meaning it can't always be guaranteed that you take your dosage on time. That is actually the primary reason why I decided against that particular drug when I got my diagnosis.

    Drone delivery can make all the difference here, removing the requirements for maintaining a cold chain, and allowing them to be dispatched on time. It's much easier to just take the injection pen and inject yourself than having to deal with staying on top of how many doses you have in your fridge and the schedule for taking them while dealing with a disease that can, and does, impair your thinking.

    There are other, similarly self administered, drugs that have similar requirements where having them delivered via drone would result in a significant improvement. I just used Kesimpta as an example as I know this one as an MS patient.

    There are other medical use cases as well. Blood and blood plasma come to mind, both in the shape of blood samples being taken from a GP practice to a lab to be analysed, and in the shape of blood from blood banks being taken to a hospital where they're needed. At the moment, this is done by road transport and even public transport at times, which can be problematic given that the chill packs used with those shipments don't last forever.

    Then there are high-value deliveries. Whilst "porch pirates" aren't really a major problem on this side of the Atlantic, packages do get stolen from people's front doors, or taken by drivers. Whilst having a package of pirated "designer" clothes from Shein or Temu "disappear" isn't really much of an issue, losing a laptop or phone this way can be extremely costly. Drone deliveries remove this vulnerability from the "last mile" of deliveries by handing it over to an automated system.

    One specific use case that was completely ignored by Manna is delivery in rural areas. Drones can ignore roads and just make a bee line for their destination, making it much easier to serve the type of decentralised housing that is prevalent in rural Ireland. I'd go so far as to say that this would have been a much better use case than serving urban areas.

    Don't get me wrong, Manna have only themselves to blame for their issues. Their business case was poorly thought out, focussed far too much on low-value, low margin services. Their cavalier approach to legislation certainly didn't help them either, trying to gain some sort of exclusivity over the airspace in much of Cork city was a massive overreach, and the company rightly suffered a backlash because of this. However, that does not mean that the cries of NIMBYs, picket fence potentates, suburban satraps and other urban undesirables were justified, or that drone deliveries in generals are not feasible.

    Good luck trying to figure me out. I haven't managed that myself yet!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,613 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,613 ✭✭✭✭Flinty997


    Really noticed the difference in lockdown.

    That people will complain about a noise they here infrequently but will ignore cars and buses passing by which are louder and vastly more frequent suggests that have have indeed normalised it.



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