Is Irelands neutrality stance in WW2 unfairly criticized? (see Mod note 217)

More copy pasta as you desperately try to pretend that you have a clue. I posted upthread how the change from the three rotor Enigma to the four rotor Enigma by the U-boats locked BP out of SHARK (the U-boat Enigma) for a period.

You simply have no comprehension of the work done to break Enigma. Luckily, Enigma had one major flaw and it was of considerable help.

You turned from Irish sailors to Allied sailors to Jewish refugees to pursue your anti-Irish neutrality and anti-de Valera agenda. They are all just numbers to you in some kind of perverse soccer match.

Information on Enigma was highly compartmentalised and secret during WW2 and those making up the numbers upon which you rely would probably not have been aware of Enigma decrypts nor would they have been aware that the Germans were reading the BAMS traffic and knew the routing details of convoys for the first few years of the war. That, more than any of your bloviating about hypothetical access to the Irish Treaty Ports cost lives.

The Allies were, for some time, unaware that their communications were compromised. Luckily, the Germans could not exploit all of this information as they did not have enough U-boats and there was a processing delay for the decrypts. Dimbleby made the pont in that BBC video clip. But even he would be ignored in your attempt to blame de Valera for everything.

Of course we were an independent nation in WW2.

…and we made a decision as independents in the full and recent knowledge of who we were dealing with, how much any of them could be trusted and which one was most likely to invade, one of them for strategic gain - the other because they couldn't make our decisions for us anymore.
Despite all that we helped one side with weather reports throughout the war, intelligence gathering and sending, access when required, to airspace etc
That's the now accepted reasonable read of the war/Emergency that could, like any event only be negotiated on a day by day basis as nobody knew how things would pan out. No different to wars/Emergencies since the dawn of time

Stagg had to deal with a whole variety of inconsistent reporting from different sources at different intervals. This is well documented. That and sometimes competing allied views from US/Canadian/US teams processing this information.

What he got from Blacksod in the early days of June was consistent hourly barometric pressure readings as well as hourly weather observation at the first landpoint. I can find no reference to your weathership 5 miles off the west coast, only reference to a single weathership 600 miles to the west. Atlantic weather can change a lot over 600 miles.

So even if you are correct(you aren't) we were supplying what information we could to the Allies along with intelligence on shipping and naval movements, and providing access for aircraft.

Meanwhile the Admiralty were **** up and those men and ships were doomed regardless of the weather because the Axis knew exactly where they where and would be. Tragic.

Your behaviour is that of a troll and you are completely ignorant about Enigma. Earlier, you were posting that it was the Allies who had it.

Now, you are recycling stuff about the four rotor Enigma to make it seem like you are not a complete moron about it. The problem is that I posted repeatedly about the change from a three rotor Enigma to a four rotor and its effect on locking the Allies out of U-boat traffic for a period. Allied losses increased during this lockout.

As for your anti-de Valera and anti-Irish neutrality agenda, it is quite obvious that you simply cannot accept historical facts.

I'm sure Germany was getting transmissions from everywhere from all sorts. Kind of another staple of war since the dawn of time.

Your link has as much to do with Irish government neutrality as the corn on my wee toe does.
Access was allowed, intelligence was given and weather reports routinely provided.
Roosevelt could 'want' all he wanted, we had to appear neutral to protect ourselves from invasion. Roosevelt was answerable to his own people as Dev was to his.

Anything else?

Wrong. Berlin was not getting transmissions from everywhere from all sorts. It was however getting information from its representative in Dublin, his staff and also from other Axis agents in Ireland.

For example, this is about Jim O'Donovan friend of Sean Russell and head of explosives in the IRA, and weekly radio information to Germany:

Quote:

"Yet despite all this, Jim O'Donovan was falling under Hitler's spell. In fact, during the early years of the war, he became increasingly interested in Nazi ideology and visited Germany three times.

Speaking for the first time about his father's work with the Nazis, Gerard O'Donovan - who was a young boy during the conflict - told me how he still remembers one regular wartime visitor to their home in Dublin:

"There was a room off the dining room where there was a radio transmitter. A man used to come every Saturday and send messages to Germany on that radio… and we children used to call (him) Mr Saturday Night."

Jim O'Donovan died in 1979 without, according to those who knew him, any regrets about his involvement with the Nazis."

Even though radio triangulation—officially known as Direction Finding (RDF)—was highly developed and widely used by both sides during WW2, it seemingly was not used to stop Nazi agents like above. Hence why in Feb 1944, the U S and Britain formally demanded that Ireland expel all Axis (German, Japanese, and Italian) diplomats. The Allies were deeply concerned that Axis legations in Dublin were spying on ship and troop movements, D-Day plans etc. Of course Dev refused. No surprise on VE day Churchill remarked about the de Valera government of being left "to frolic with the German and later with the Japanese representatives to their heart's content".

You haven't the first clue about barometric pressure measurement if you think the number of ships and aircraft are relevant.

What is important is consistency of location, interval and instrumentation. This shows the trend, rising/ falling air pressure and how quickly/slowly it is changing. The far westerly location gave a picture before any other land based weather stations and time was crucial for the go/no go decisions.

Any luck with reference to the weather ship 5 miles off the coast giving the exact same information? Why did Blacksod receive a call from England to confirm the readings if they were so trivial?

What has any of that to do with Irish Neutrality as decided by the Dáil?

It's like saying Oswald Mosley was responsible for British government actions.

Wise up Francis.

I suspect the internet is being rifled for bias confirmation cut and paste material or we'll get another pivot.

It doesn't really matter if the information was good bad or indifferent, the fact is it was offered and received throughout the war. Same as intelligence and access.

I agree with you there. We could not officially join the UK in WW2 and have conscription here / send people overseas to fight. That was out.

Its only our government we should be ashamed about and the decisions they took. If we allowed the use of the treaty ports - even if just by the Canadians or Americans - for a few years it would have helped the Allies a bit. Or if we offered at least, same as Portugal did with the Azores.

We can be ashamed of our P.M. commiserating on the death of Hitler : he was the only one in the world to do so, and he represented us.

Back to this again. The Government interned Jim O'Donovan for 2 years! Francis is obviously spiraling, probably be on the cartoon within the hour!

lol. Do you not think there was a barometer on each of the 400 to 600 ships in the North Atlantic on any given day in 1944? And that they took very regular readings?

Nobody said it had anything to do with "the govt deciding to be neutral".

But…. wink wink - how neutral was the government when it did not triangulate ( RDF) the radio messages to Berlin? According to O'Donovan the IRA man's son "

 A man used to come every Saturday and send messages to Germany on that radio… and we children used to call (him) Mr Saturday Night."

Jim O'Donovan died in 1979 without, according to those who knew him, any regrets about his involvement with the Nazis."

Not surprising the US ambassador (Minister) and his staff thought that Dev was hoping for a German victory…he was misguided enough to think it would bring a 32 county Ireland.

Not even hiding the trolling anymore!